Does God Want Man to be God?

[Trusting in Him]

God never was created. He is the self existent one and Jesus is the only begotten Son of the Father. This expresses something unique about the nature and the origin of God. He never was part of the creation, we are part of the creatation. We only exist because He has given us life. We are a completely different order of being, how can you compare finite human beings with the infinite nature of God!

 

[oikonomia]

He does so because God is on a kind of journey or process of dispensing Himself into man.
On the way from the Source, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit (co-eternal) are steps along the way.

This doesn't answer the question. Deflection!

It is not a deflection at all.
Your concept of God is so static that you need to see the PROCESS though which God passed through in His dispensing of God into man.

God is more "fluid" in His goings forth from eternity into time and space and into the creation and especially into man.
That this God is of a dimension transcendent above all that we know yet piercing into our dimension is how He can be Witness to Himself.

In Him was life, and the life was the light of men." (John 1:2-4)

And where did the life that was manifested in Him come from? His Father!

Good point.
Christ is the life of God, the life of the Father.

In His goings forth from eternity (Micah 5:2) He became flesh (John 1:14) - One Step, and He became a life GIVING Spirit (1 Cor. 15:45b) - Second Step.

The whole section also amounts to God having His God !
"But of the Son, "Your throne O God, is forever and ever, and the scepter of uprighteness is the scepter of Your kingdom. . . therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of exulatant joy above Your partners."

This verse merely supports my argument that the Son has a God, His Father! Thank you for providing it.

No need to thank me for what the Scripture plainly says.
The Son is addressed "O God" and God is His God - "Therefore God, Your God."

It is not that I believe something extra.
It is that you do not believe enough.

And that is going coming short of all that the Bible teaches.

How so??

"And the Word became flesh and tabernacled among us." (v.14)

Agreed, but your understanding of the word LOGOS is that it was Jesus.

In John 1:14 when "the Word became flesh and tabernacled among us" that man's name was Jesus.
Who else would you say He was?

As a matter of fact when He comes again in Revelation 19:13 His name is called "the Word of God".

"And He is clothed with a garment dipped in blood; and His name is called the Word of God." (Rev. 19:13)

Like He said I ascend to MY GOD and your God, My Father and your Father. John 20:17

And in the same chapter in verse 28 and 29 we read this -

"Thomas answered and said to Him, My Lord and my God!
Jesus said to him, Because you have seen Me, you have believed.
Blessed are those who have not seen and have believed."

Believed WHAT? WHAT was Thomas and we blessed to believe ?
That is - believe that Jesus is our Lord and our God.

It is not that we who believe in the three-oneness of God believe something extra. It is that you do not believe enough.

 

[oikonomia]

God never was created. He is the self existent one and Jesus is the only begotten Son of the Father. This expresses something unique about the nature and the origin of God. He never was part of the creation, we are part of the creatation. We only exist because He has given us life. We are a completely different order of being, how can you compare finite human beings with the infinite nature of God!

Thankyou. God was never created.
But He became flesh. God became a man and without argument man is an item of the creation of God. (Genesis 1:26,27).

Now leaning a little more towards the OP of what does God want.

"You shall be perfect even as your heavenly Father is perfect." (Matt. 5:48)
This must be something God wants.

So the question "Does God want man to be God?" I think is legitimate.
Even if it is impossible for man to be God the Person . . . what is His WANT?

 

[Trusting in Him]

But when we see Him we shall be like Him. We shall be a new creation and it does not yet appear what we shall be like!

 

[oikonomia]

But when we see Him we shall be like Him. We shall be a new creation and it does not yet appear what we shall be like!

Thankyou again!

Do you realize that part of our being has already SPEARHEADED into that new unverse?
One part of our being as Christians has ALREADY stepped into the new heaven and new earth God WILL be making.

You see that part is our mingled spirit where the Spirit of Christ is.
"He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit." (1 Cor. 6:17)

Because we are united in an "organic" union with God deep within, in our human spirit, we are a "new creation" now.
"So that if anyone is in Christ, there is a new creation; the old things have passed away; behold, they have become new." (2 Cor. 5:17)

Man is of three parts - "spirit and soul and body" (First Thess. 5:23)
And the born again man or woman has a human spirit "joined" to the Spirit of Christ to be "one [mingled] spirit."

The kernel, the nuclues of the Christian's being has already spearheaded the way into the new heaven and new earth to come.
So when God says "Behold I make all things new." (Rev. 21:40)
And John testified "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away; and the sea is no more." (Rev. 21:1) one part of our being as Christians has already entered into that newness. God has taken a "beachhead" within us into that new universe in the church age. Praise Him.

He is working to bring in the rest of our entire being into this newness through our being "sanctified WHOLLY."
"And the God of peace Himself sanctify you wholly, and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Faithful is He who calles you, who also will do it." (1 Thess. 5:23,24)

My innermost being, my spirit has already entered into that new creation of a environment by causing me to be a new creation in Christ. You too if you are a believer in the Lord Jesus.

 

[YahuahSaves]

Does God want man to be God?

My answer is yes but not in His Godhead. I mean there are attributes which God will not bestow upon His creatures.

He alone is an object of worship.
He alone is the Creator of universes.
Other noncommunicable attributes would probably be:

His omniscience.
His omnipotence.
His omipresents.
His alone becomming the Redeemer and Source of eternal redemption and eternal life.

There may be some more non-communicable attributes that someone else could mention.
But He created us in His image.
He created us according to His likeness.
He became a man.
And He became a life giving Spirit (1 Cor. 15:45 ) to impart Himself into us to conform us to His image (Romans 8:28,29).

Athanasius was on to something saying God became man so that man might become God.
That is, I believe he meant life, nature, expression, glory but not in the incommunicalbe attributes that are soley those of His Godhead.

Am I right?
" . . . we shall be like Him, because we shall see Him even as He is." (1 John 3:2).
It is not a power grab on our part. Rather it is something according to His purpose, His desire, His hearts pleasure and intention. (Eph. 1:5; Rom. 8:29)

But He created us in His image.
He created us according to His likeness

My personal view is no.
We are his image in spirit and likeness in character (love). At least we were meant to be.

But we become that now through Christ, he is the vine, we are the branches.

 

[oikonomia]

My personal view is no.
We are his image in spirit and likeness in character (love). At least we were meant to be.

But we become that now through Christ, he is the vine, we are the branches.

I kind of hope you will read a bit more of what I wrote.
I apologize beforehand for being so verbose.

God wants to "flow" through us like a endless river of life.
He is inexhaustible, eternal, and boundlessly rich.
We were created in His image that we may have His life flow through us.

Right here:

"Now on the last day of the feast, the great day, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink.
He who believes into Me, as the Scripture said, ou rtof his innermost being shall flow rivers of living water. But this He said concerning the Spirit; for the Spirit was not yet, because Jesus had not yet been glorified." (John 7:37-39)

We see here the desire of God to FLOW out of man's innermost being as rivers of living water.
This is God and Christ as the life giving Spirit freely flowing from within that we live God.

In the glimpse of eternity, in the New Jerusalem, this river of water of life, the Spirit, is pouring out of the throne of God down the mountain, spiraling through the entire city New Jerusalem.

"And he showed me a river of water of life, bright as crystal, proceeding out of the thone of God and of the Lamb in the middle of its street." (Rev. 22:1)

The profound symbolism here means God's THRONE is installed into the innermost being of ALL the constituents of the holy city.
The street is the walk, the living, the WAY of life and movement in the entire city.
The way the river flows, the street goes. And we then and now know we are walking the divine way by the flow of the Holy Spirit within.

"And on this side and on that side of the river was the tree of life, producing twelve fruits, yielding its fruit each month . . . " (v.2a)

John 7:37 shows this Spirit flowing out of each individual saved man's innermost being in this age.
Revelation 22:1,2 show this Spirit flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb, the Redeemer throughout the entire city New Jerusalem. Each and every divinized human being has the throne of the living Triune God within their innermost being.

This is man living out God, living God, and God living in them, flowing through them as crystal clear eternal life.
What can we say about man LIVING in God and God LIVING in man ?
In a real sense - He becomes our life and living and we become His channel for flowing through and flowing out.

 

[oikonomia]

The footenotes in the Recovery Version in Revelation 22:1 include these words below in green.
The notes were written by brother Witness Lee.
www.recoveryversion.org

"The "river," as typified by the rivers in Genesis 2:10-14, Psalm 46:4, and Ezekiel 47:5-9. signifies the abundance of life in its flow. It is one river, flowing through the four directions of the holy city like fpur heads of one river in Genesis 2:10-14. This one river with its riches become many rivers in our experience as indicated in John 7:38.

This "water of life" is a symbol of God in Christ as the Spirit, flowing Himself into His redeemed people to be thier life supply. It is typified by the water that came out of the riven rock (Exo. 17:6; Num. 20:11) and symbolized by the water that flowed out of the pierced side of the Lord Jesus (John 19:34). Here, this water of life becomes a river, "proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb" to supply and saturate the entire New Jerusalem. Thus it is filled with the divine life to express God in His glory of life."

The water of life is "bright as crystal" with no dimness not opaqueness. When this water of life flows in us, it purifies and makes us transparent as crystal."

 

[YahuahSaves]

I kind of hope you will read a bit more of what I wrote.
I apologize beforehand for being so verbose.

God wants to "flow" through us like a endless river of life.
He is inexhaustible, eternal, and boundlessly rich.
We were created in His image that we may have His life flow through us.

Right here:

"Now on the last day of the feast, the great day, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink.
He who believes into Me, as the Scripture said, ou rtof his innermost being shall flow rivers of living water. But this He said concerning the Spirit; for the Spirit was not yet, because Jesus had not yet been glorified." (John 7:37-39)

We see here the desire of God to FLOW out of man's innermost being as rivers of living water.
This is God and Christ as the life giving Spirit freely flowing from within that we live God.

In the glimpse of eternity, in the New Jerusalem, this river of water of life, the Spirit, is pouring out of the throne of God down the mountain, spiraling through the entire city New Jerusalem.

"And he showed me a river of water of life, bright as crystal, proceeding out of the thone of God and of the Lamb in the middle of its street." (Rev. 22:1)

The profound symbolism here means God's THRONE is installed into the innermost being of ALL the constituents of the holy city.
The street is the walk, the living, the WAY of life and movement in the entire city.
The way the river flows, the street goes. And we then and now know we are walking the divine way by the flow of the Holy Spirit within.

"And on this side and on that side of the river was the tree of life, producing twelve fruits, yielding its fruit each month . . . " (v.2a)

John 7:37 shows this Spirit flowing out of each individual saved man's innermost being in this age.
Revelation 22:1,2 show this Spirit flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb, the Redeemer throughout the entire city New Jerusalem. Each and every divinized human being has the throne of the living Triune God within their innermost being.

This is man living out God, living God, and God living in them, flowing through them as crystal clear eternal life.
What can we say about man LIVING in God and God LIVING in man ?
In a real sense - He becomes our life and living and we become His channel for flowing through and flowing out.

OK I completely get what you mean now and I agree.

I worry for those who get it distorted that we somehow become God in the end, one with God is not the same as becoming God...We share in his glory, but all the praise belongs to him.

Anyway, this amazes me because I've had an enigma playing out in my life and I've found it difficult to try and reconcile it with scripture.. but your response is perfect... maybe the Holy Spirit is still working through the people on this site after all!

 

[Strong in Him]

The being "with him" is exceedingly organic.
It is more that than the "with him" of all the good angels who are forever "with him."

I'm not sure what you mean by that; sorry.

It is the "with him" of mingling.
God becomes us and we become God in life and nature and expression but not in His Godhead

No.
We have Jesus IN us by his Spirit.
We can become AS Jesus to others. The only Jesus that some people will see is the Christ that is in us - scary thought.
We are not God; the author of creation, the One who made this universe from nothing, and sustains it by the power of his word.
And we never will be

Satan, when he was [Lucifer] or the Daystar was surely with God - "with him."
But this highest creature did not have God living within him.

No, because he was an angel.
Angels are God's messengers and serve him. They are constantly in his presence, but are not created to have a relationship with him. Lucifer was once an angel of light, till he rebelled.

If God wanted more creatures to be happy, glorious and "with him" as the good angels that remained "with him,"
instead of creating man, why didn't God simply make more glorious angels to be "with him?"

God is love.
He created us - humans - to love and have a relationship with him.
Angels don't really do that; they are there to serve.

It's maybe a bit like asking, "why get married? If you want a companion, someone to be with you; get a dog."

 

[YahuahSaves]

Its interesting oikonomia that your posts have a lot of contradictory statements..

Can you clarify exactly what you believe summed up in short?

You asked the question, but I'm confused as to what your answer is?

 

[Trusting in Him]

When I was a young teenager I was to ill with glandular fever for about six to nine months to attend school at the time, later as an adult I was too ill to work for three and a half years with ME and as time went on I also had two heart attacks and two strokes. This last heart attack came very close to killing me. As I guess many will understand, my hope is not in this present world, but in the future world with my Saviour Jesus Christ.

I have in the past and still do read a lot from the bible about what it means to be part of the bride of Jesus Christ. To quote the words of an old song "the world is not my home, I'm just passing through". Over the years God has made me an overcomer and I know that He ultimately has something much better in store for me than this imperfect and slowly passing away world. Ultimately there is no meaningful future in this world for me to hope for.

I still believe that for me, I have in my heart the faith that is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen. I am also told by His word to hold fast the profession of my faith without wavering, for He is faithfull is He that promised. Has He not created those of us who choose to be His to be those who will love Him above all else and is not love the highest form of worship that we can know. Does not the bible say that love is stronger than death.

 

[oikonomia]

When I was a young teenager I was to ill with glandular fever for about six to nine months to attend school at the time, later as an adult I was too ill to work for three and a half years with ME and as time went on I also had two heart attacks and two strokes. This last heart attack came very close to killing me. As I guess many will understand, my hope is not in this present world, but in the future world with my Saviour Jesus Christ.

Thankyou for that testimony.
This was a sore trial for sure. But you already look back and see how the Lord Jesus encreased His grace in you though it.
With some it is a hard knock or two.
With others it is many softer and daily knocks.
Either way His curriculum for each believer has in view the encrease of His life in our souls.

I have in the past and still do read a lot from the bible about what it means to be part of the bride of Jesus Christ.

Yes, the bride makes herself ready. She is not passive but utilizes the time to make herself ready to meet Him.
That is through His prevailing grace of course. He operates and we cooperate.

"Let us rejoice and exult, and let us give the honor to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and His wife has made herself ready." (Rev. 19:7).

With His operating grace within the overcomers, she has "made herself ready."
The sore trials you have seen God has used to sovereignly help you as an overcoming one to prepare to marriage Him.

To quote the words of an old song "the world is not my home, I'm just passing through". Over the years God has made me an overcomer and I know that He ultimately has something much better in store for me than this imperfect and slowly passing away world. Ultimately there is no meaningful future in this world for me to hope for.

I want to be like you.
I also want to overcome for we are pilgrims here.
But what hope, what promise, what foretaste of a fuller taste to come is out enjoyment of Christ as life today.
Thanks again for sharing your testimony.

I still believe that for me, I have in my heart the faith that is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen. I am also told by His word to hold fast the profession of my faith without wavering, for He is faithfull is He that promised. Has He not created those of us who choose to be His to be those who will love Him above all else and is not love the highest form of worship that we can know. Does not the bible say that love is stronger than death.

Yes. His love is so strong for Him to give Himself to us.
Amen.

 

[YahuahSaves]

Man was CREATED in the image of God as a vessel designed to CONTAIN God's life in himself.

God's life in himself?

God existed before he planned creation and I'm sure he had no need of anything, not even us.

The difference is he wanted to create us because it pleased him.

We are vessels but not for Gods 'life' but for his spirit, and not so we become him, but we become like him in spirit and truth, which is love. And love is not just a feeling, it's a doing word. His spirit works in us and through us. that is the 'living water' you refer to.

 

[oikonomia]

OK I completely get what you mean now and I agree.

We were born again to "mature again."
We were born again to "grow again."

The process can be slowed down and arrested through our negligence or passivity. But it cannot be stopped.
And what will be the consummation of this "growth of God?" His eternal purpose will be fulfilled that we pass "from glory to glory" by this "metabolic" transformation into the same image. This "metabolism" of Christ being formed in us is tremendous.

1.) Christ being formed in us - "My children, with whom I travail again in birth until Christ is formed in you" (Gal. 4:19)

2.) Christ growing in us with "the growth of God" - " . . . holding the Head, out from whom all the Body, being richly supplied and knit together by means of the joints and sinews, grows with the growth of God." (Col. 2:19)

3.) Being transformed by degrees of glory into His image - "But we all with unvieled face, beholding and reflecting like a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, even as from the Lord Spirit." (2 Cor. 3:18)

What a salvation! Amen?

I worry for those who get it distorted that we somehow become God in the end, one with God is not the same as becoming God...We share in his glory, but all the praise belongs to him.

Yes. All the praise to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit.
And may our caution be based not on what sounds traditional but on the word of God.

Anyway, this amazes me because I've had an enigma playing out in my life and I've found it difficult to try and reconcile it with scripture.. but your response is perfect... maybe the Holy Spirit is still working through the people on this site after all!

The fellowship helps. And I need the fellowship.
You know James said we who teach all make mistakes.
To be tempered and balanced by others in the Body of Christ is a protection and safeguard.

 

[YahuahSaves]

We were born again to "mature again."
We were born again to "grow again."

The process can be slowed down and arrested through our negligence or passivity. But it cannot be stopped.
And what will be the consummation of this "growth of God?" His eternal purpose will be fulfilled that we pass "from glory to glory" by this "metabolic" transformation into the same image. This "metabolism" of Christ being formed in us is tremendous.

1.) Christ being formed in us - "My children, with whom I travail again in birth until Christ is formed in you" (Gal. 4:19)

2.) Christ growing in us with "the growth of God" - " . . . holding the Head, out from whom all the Body, being richly supplied and knit together by means of the joints and sinews, grows with the growth of God." (Col. 2:19)

3.) Being transformed by degres of glory into His image - "But we all with unvieled face, beholding and reflecting like a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, even as from the Lord Spirit." (2 Cor. 3:18)

What a salvation! Amen?

Yes. All the praise to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit.
And may our caution be based not on what sounds traditional but on the word of God.

The fellowship helps. And I need the fellowship.
You know James said we who teach all make mistakes.
To be tempered and balanced by others in the Body of Christ is a protection and safeguard.

I'm not too sure I agree yet with everything you wrote, just that post I responded to earlier.

You are an enigma my friend.

Maybe I'm tired and need to read tomorrow with fresh eyes.

 

[oikonomia]

God's life in himself?

God existed before he planned creation and I'm sure he had no need of anything, not even us.

Sorry Pipp, my replies may not be in order. I may reply sometimes kind of randomly.

I think our "needs" is a kind of reflection of the greatest Life - God Himself.
If it is hard to say "God needs" in eternity before the creation of anything, certainly He WANTED. Certainly He did so to fufill His pleasure.

As the greatest One I think what He has in His heart we could consider the greatest "need" in a sense.
For sure all He created was preceeded by His desire to fullfill His "good pleasure."

"Making known to us the mystery of His will according to His good pleasure, which He purposed in HImself." (Eph. 1:9)

He is delighted to head up all things in the universe, starting with us, in Christ, a plan to climax in the fullness of the times -

"Unto the economy of the fullness of the times, to head up all things in Christ, the things in the heavens and things on the earth, in Him . . . " (v.10)

The difference is he wanted to create us because it pleased him.

Yes. To please Him that that through His great love we would be filled up unto all the fullness of God.

"And to know the knowledge-surpassing love of Christ, that you may be filled unto all the fullness of God." (Eph. 3:19)

I think this "unto all the fullness of God" means He who is infinite in riches flows constantly through man, overflowing with His expression, glory, and display of how God can mingle Himself with His redeemed people.

We are vessels but not for Gods 'life' but for his spirit, and not so we become him,

I believe His non-communicable attributes we will never share.
But it is no small thing that He flow through us as our life.

I think I am going to accompany this thread with a corresponding question soon - "Does God want to become man?"
Do you think that might be a good subject to ask about along with the question of this thread?

but we become like him in spirit and truth, which is love. And love is not just a feeling, it's a doing word. His spirit works in us and through us. that is the 'living water' you refer to.

 

[oikonomia]

I'm not too sure I agree yet with everything you wrote, just that post I responded to earlier.

You are an enigma my friend.

Maybe I'm tired and need to read tomorrow with fresh eyes.

Prove all things and hold FAST to that which is good.
Do rest.

My utterance may be a problem to some.

 

[Trusting in Him]

I am a very old fashioned Christian. I don't read many modern day Christian books, a really large part of my book collection comes from a much earlier period. I also don't much like Christian books, which are written from an intelectural perspective. Man's interlect has very little to do with spirituality, some things are hidden from the wise and are only revealed to babes. Does not God resist the proud.

It is o.k. to be someone in this world who is of little significance. Did not our Saviour make Himself of no reputation. and are we not to choose to be like Him, so that we can be like Him?

 

[oikonomia]

I'm not too sure I agree yet with everything you wrote, just that post I responded to earlier.

Again. my replies to some people may not be in good order but kind of random.
Everything I write SHOULD be checked out with the word of God.

Like the Bereans checked the gospel with the Scriptures they had to see if those things spoken by the Lord's servants were so.
Sometimes, one must set aside thinking too much about a matter.

And sometimes one may decide that a better way or correct way of understanding something is preferred.
We know in part and prophesy in part. (1 Cor. 3:9).

You are an enigma my friend.

I am still learning to try to be clear friend.
The Lord be with your spirit.

Maybe I'm tired and need to read tomorrow with fresh eyes.

Have a good rest and rest in the Lord.