Does God Want Man to be God?

oikonomia

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We shall never be "divine", but we have partaken of God and His life. We have, through Jesus, been brought into fellowship--communion--with the Holy Trinity.
Isn't it hard to say we are partakers of the divine nature yet say we will not be divine?

I think as long as we are PARTAKERS of the divine nature, that will make us divine by nature.
It was purchased FOR us. We were not inherently divine.


There are SPECTATORS.
There are ADMIRERS.
There are OBSERVERS.

Peter goes beyond these to say the Christians are PARTAKERS - taking part of that divine nature.
The more we use it to escape the corruption in the world the more partakers we become.

" . . . exceedingly great promises that through these you might become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the vorrution which is in the world through lust." (2 Pet. 1:4)

The Christian doctrine is Theosis, never dehumanization or apotheosis.
Yes it is not dehumanizizing but rather making us human according to what God MEANT by human being.
God placed man before "the tree of life." Though man forfieted temporarily his right to take in the life of God we see it was the inention of the Creator that man WOULD.

By reading just Genesis is is not easy to see this. In light of the whole Bible the essence of this tree of life is enlightened to us.
It must have stood for the very life of God. For God from creation of man wanted to join with, live in, indwell man as His living vessel.




St. Athanasius on his work on the Incarnation says that He (the Logos, our Lord Jesus) was "made man" (ἐνηνθρώπησεν, in-humanity-ed), so that we might be θεοποιηθῶμεν (divinized, God-ified, "made divine"). The whole locus is the Incarnation, God coming and sharing in our humanity that, in Him, we might share in His Deity. Never that we stop being human, never that we become "divine" in the way that God is Divine but that we, as St. Peter says, have partaken of the divine nature--by God's grace, by our union with Christ and having His life. It is about sharing in, participation with, it's about communion and fellowship; God sharing Himself with us in the Incarnate Jesus, as pure grace.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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How is that possible when God says: "But unto the Son He saith, Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever; a sceptre of righteousness is the
sceptre of thy kingdom"

And if God is a Spirit then has God gone backwards to become a man? Or just the Son?

The Christian faith is this: We worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity, neither confusing the Persons nor dividing the Essence. The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God; not three gods, but one God.

The Son has always been God. Which is why it is written, "Your Throne O God is forever and ever"; and why it is written that in the beginning was the Logos, the Logos was with God, and the Logos is God; and that the Logos became flesh and dwelt among us. Jesus, the Eternal Son of the Father--and therefore is Himself God--became a human being in the womb of the Virgin Mary.

This is Christianity 101 stuff, and is why you should avail yourself to faithful Christian preaching and teaching at a Christian church that abides and confesses the Scriptures and the historic faith of Christ's Church.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Strong in Him

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We are as GRAFTED into Him as seen in John 15. The branches grafted into the true vine of Christ receive His life flowing into them.
Rather than an exchange of lives, it is a grafting of our life into Christ.
Yes, we are.
But being grafted into Christ does not mean that we become God.
 
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Strong in Him

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Isn't it hard to say we are partakers of the divine nature yet say we will not be divine?

I think as long as we are PARTAKERS of the divine nature, that will make us divine by nature.

I don't.
God alone is divine. He is Spirit, eternal, infinite, perfect; we are flesh; created, finite and flawed.
When we are in heaven we will serve, and worship, God. We will not, ourselves, be worshipped.
 
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oikonomia

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Yes, we are.
But being grafted into Christ does not mean that we become God.

Why not?
Are not the vine and the branches eventually one organism?

When Jesus says He is the true vine and we are the branches, ultimately the true vine with the branches is one plant -one organism.

Where does the vine end and the branches begin?
It is hard to tell because they are one plant.

I have repeated many times that the nonsummicable attributes of God are God's soely and alone from eternity to eternity.
But He is to continually flow through us (He being infinite) God becomes us and we become God. Or shall I say we become channels through which the exhaustless Divine Being flows forever and manifests man living out God.

The PERFECTING to take place saves us to the uttermost - a mingling with God. He beomes us and we become Him in mutuality.

"And the glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one,even as We are one;
I in them,and You in Me, that they may be PERFECTED into one, that the world may know that You have sent Me and have loved them evenas You have loved Me." (John 17:22-24)
 
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oikonomia

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I don't.
God alone is divine. He is Spirit, eternal, infinite, perfect; we are flesh; created, finite and flawed.
When we are in heaven we will serve, and worship, God. We will not, ourselves, be worshipped.

Do you under estaimate the extent and power of His full salvation?
Is not the promise to present us holy before Him without blemish?

"According as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world tht we should be holy and without blemish before HIm, in love, Having predestinated us unto sonship through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will." (Eph. 1:4,5)

No flaw left.
No foreign element to defile left in us.
No blemish left.
We become holy. God is the source for He alone is holy. (Rev. 15:4)

I have said a number of times that non-cummunicable attributes are never to be the saveds' - one of which is to be worthy of worship.
Yes, we are not inheriting that right to receive the worship of God.

Agreed.
 
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oikonomia

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The troublesome question I posed (to many) is "Does God want man to be God?"

Someone give me your thoughts on what God told Moses as to how Pharoah would view him.

"And he [Aaron] shall speak for you to the people, and he shall be as a mouth for you, and you shall be as God to him." (Exodus 4:16)

What did Jehovah God WANT there ?
 
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Strong in Him

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Do you under estaimate the extent and power of His full salvation?
Is not the promise to present us holy before Him without blemish?
Yes. After death we become whole - fully healed, flawless, like him.
That doesn't mean we become him.
Adam and Eve were not God but created beings. So are we.

Isaiah 42:8 - The Lord will not yield his glory to another.
Acts 12:23 - Herod was struck down because the people hailed him as a god, he accepted their praise and did not correct them or give glory to God.
 
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Strong in Him

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The troublesome question I posed (to many) is "Does God want man to be God?"

Someone give me your thoughts on what God told Moses as to how Pharoah would view him.

"And he [Aaron] shall speak for you to the people, and he shall be as a mouth for you, and you shall be as God to him." (Exodus 4:16)

What did Jehovah God WANT there ?

Moses was as God to Pharaoh - he had power over illness, the elements, the Nile, creatures (snakes, frogs, flies, locusts) and eventually life and death. Moses did not speak on his own authority or as that of a man who was "slow of speech", Exodus 4:10. His words were powerful and produced miracles.
There is no way Moses would have claimed to be God. He was given the 10 commandments, and knew full well what the first of those said.
 
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Samson2021

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This is Christianity 101 stuff, and is why you should avail yourself to faithful Christian preaching and teaching at a Christian church that abides and confesses the Scriptures and the historic faith of Christ's Church.

1 John 2:26-27 "These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. But the anointing which ye have received of
Him abideth in you, and YOU NEED NOT THAT ANY MAN TEACH YOU: but as the same anointing teaches you of all things, and is TRUTH,
and is NO LIE
, and even as IT HATH TAUGHT YOU, ye shall abide in Him."

I guess you missed these verses, or have never had the pleasure of learning from the Holy Ghost. This is what causes the separation of the
wheat from the tares.
Continue being under seduction and the good stuff will get missed as they do not know it, and therefore can never teach it to you.

Gal 1:11 But I certify of you brethren that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
Gal 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
 
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Samson2021

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In short IF you have the Holy Ghost learn from Him OR go sit in a "church" that has undergone 2000 yrs of transformation to become
a thing that Jesus says to His sheep "COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE". You will never learn the deep things of God in a "church"
Choice is yours! Organized christianity is just that, an organization. Not the CHURCH, as IT (the true church) is composed of the
individuals who possess the Spirit and are thus in session every minute of every day. A true Christian does not go to church as he/she is
the church.
 
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oikonomia

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In short IF you have the Holy Ghost learn from Him OR go sit in a "church"
Hold on. Not too fast.
Some of us realize we do not "sit" in church. Rather we are BORN into the church by life and are an "organic" part of the church.
Do not dispair. Do not et an Elijah complex "Lord, I'm the only one left!!"
that has undergone 2000 yrs of transformation to become
In the two thousand years, here and there God has some who have overcome.
These we may call "overcomers." They have maintained the standard of normality.
They have not been a majority of the saints but a remnant.
Do not be disouraged. God reserves in every age a minority remnant who overcome the surrounding deficiency.

And He requires some today in this closing age also
a thing that Jesus says to His sheep "COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE".
Here you quote Revelation 18:4. I appreciate your reference beause it does show God's people have been carried away into captivity of degraded Christianity. They are nonetheless are still His people. So this is not a matter of not being or being saved.

It is as matter of overcoming. Now I would say that it may seem easy to leave
"Babylon." But "Babylon" will not leave you that easily.
This degradation is kind of in our blood. It is not as easy as just stop meeting with this group and start meeting with that one instead.
This degradation is in our flesh. And coming out of Babylon is really a life long coming out and into our spirit.

But I share you earnest desire that Christians see they must
"come out" of the degradation.
Seven times in Revelation 2 and 3 we see the promise to those who overcome - to those who will hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

If you have come out, love us.

You will never learn the deep things of God in a "church"
We could speak of the deeper things of the church for the next month easily.
I speak for myself now. I can keep up with you on the profoundity of the nature of the church.
But your problem with the Trinity is not terribly encouraging. Without the three-oneness of God there would be no new testament church.

Choice is yours! Organized christianity is just that, an organization. Not the CHURCH, as IT (the true church) is composed of the
individuals who possess the Spirit and are thus in session every minute of every day. A true Christian does not go to church as he/she is
the church.
I'll come back to this.
 
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Samson2021

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Here you quote Revelation 18:4. I appreciate your reference beause it does show God's people have been carried away into captivity of degraded Christianity. They are nonetheless are still His people. So this is not a matter of not being or being saved.
I Never said it was a matter of salvation, but rather it is an obstacle to be overcome in order to get the reward associated with overcoming it.
I'm glad we can agree on this point?
If you have come out, love us.
Many many years ago. I was sent to places with messages and subsequently kicked out of all as they do not receive anything except
from the home office. They would not hear the words the Lord gave me to tell them. Some were shuttered shortly thereafter.
Those I love I rebuke and chasten. Should it be otherwise today?
But your problem with the Trinity is not terribly encouraging. Without the three-oneness of God there would be no new testament church.
No, without the shedding of the Son of Gods BLOOD there would not be a New Testament. For a testament is not in effect without the
shedding of blood. Has nothing to do with a three-oneness Hinduish nonsense. It's all about the righteous act of the shedding of Jesus'
blood.
It is as matter of overcoming. Now I would say that it may seem easy to leave "Babylon." But "Babylon" will not leave you that easily.
This degradation is kind of in our blood. It is not as easy as just stop meeting with this group and start meeting with that one instead.

And this would be my point exactly, the Holy Ghost does not teach the oneness of three members of a Trinity, neither did Jesus.
"My Father is greater than I." But as you say Babylon is in your blood and not easy to leave. The suggestion is to stop meeting with any
group for a time and spend time with the gift of the Holy Ghost you were given and let Him teach you. NOT A MAN.

To be clear, due to politics in Rome during the early 300's Christianity was degraded in order to
keep control of the people by Constantine, who instituted Christianity as the religion of the state. And in doing so initiated new services
such as Christmas, which is only a continuation of the old Mithraistic tradition of gift giving, and in those days sexual indulgence that lasted
for the week prior to the winter eqiuinox. A celebration of the returning of the SUN. This kept the Mithraist sect happy and avoided a civil war between Christians and them at the time.
Easter is another. These are but a few examples of idolatry introduced back then, so wheres the solid evidence of the Trinity prior to
its being demanded to be taught and believed under pain of death? And from so called Christians as well????? Did they not believe John
either when he wrote that the Holy Ghost would teach you? What Christian needs them, then or now? Why their way or death, banishment, excommunication?
Christians love one another, they do not Lord themselves over each other. But the Trinity group does. Perfect example is the Catholic Church
with its Pope, cardinals, bishops, priests that are called Father, (Big NO NO there). And the filth that has been spread abroad upon them???
Sexual perversion etc.....
The thought of give US your money so WE can save people is utterly absurd. Does God truly need anyone? Or does He use the FOOLISHNESS
of preaching to save those that should be saved? Most $ goes to prop up the organization, and Jesus already saved ALL Men by His one act of righteousness. Rom 5:18 Still up to God to draw one to Jesus, and they ain't God.
But we were warned that they, the deceivers, would MAKE MERCHANDISE of us. How deep does it go? Only God knows.

Just a quick personal question to you: Have you ever cast out an unclean spirit? Can you pray in an unknown tongue at the drop of a hat?
Has the Lord ever sent you specifically to someone to pray for their healing? Or any other thing you might share?

After all "My sheep know my voice, and another they will not follow."
 
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oikonomia

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I Never said it was a matter of salvation, but rather it is an obstacle to be overcome in order to get the reward associated with overcoming it. I'm glad we can agree on this point?
We agree on some things. Seeing the problems is often easy.
Everyone oractically can point to this or that problem.
Seeing God's way to overcome is not as easy.
No, without the shedding of the Son of Gods BLOOD there would not be a New Testament. For a testament is not in effect without the
shedding of blood. Has nothing to do with a three-oneness Hinduish nonsense. It's all about the righteous act of the shedding of Jesus'
blood.
Without redemption surely there would be no redeemed to form the church.
But without the indwelling of the Lord to be thier life there could not be any Body of Christ.

The indwelling of the resurrected Redeemer is therefore also critical the existence of the church.
I have to continue latter.

Your posts are being read carefully by me. And in detail I have reply to some points there.
 
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ViaCrucis

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1 John 2:26-27 "These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. But the anointing which ye have received of
Him abideth in you, and YOU NEED NOT THAT ANY MAN TEACH YOU: but as the same anointing teaches you of all things, and is TRUTH,
and is NO LIE
, and even as IT HATH TAUGHT YOU, ye shall abide in Him."

I guess you missed these verses, or have never had the pleasure of learning from the Holy Ghost. This is what causes the separation of the
wheat from the tares.
Continue being under seduction and the good stuff will get missed as they do not know it, and therefore can never teach it to you.

Gal 1:11 But I certify of you brethren that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
Gal 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Have you considered paying attention to the context of 1 John 2:26-27? The reason why he can say this is because they had already learned the truth when they were first instructed in the apostolic teaching (1 John 2:24), therefore when the heretics (antichrists) come preaching false doctrine they can recognize it and trust in what they had already received.

Your mis-use of the Bible here, is also why you should be properly trained and taught in the ways of Christ and His Church.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Samson2021

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Your mis-use of the Bible here, is also why you should be properly trained and taught in the ways of Christ and His Church.
Mis-use- your opinion.
Taught is exactly what the Holy Ghost has done for me. Properly trained and taught by Him, not a man made "church" doctrine.

The lord woke me up one night years ago at 3:33 and I heard the word Jeremiah. I did not want to get up and look at it and was pleading to
look at it in the morning when I got up. I never moved but just laid there in a king size bed. My wife who was about 3 feet away and dead
asleep and turned away from me said "YOUR NOT DOING WHAT I TOLD YOU TO DO!" He spoke to my external ear with her voice.
needless to say I got up and looked at the passage. There is no 3:33 in Jeremiah but in 33:3 it says "Call unto me and I will answer thee,
and show thee great and mighty things thou knowest not. I did and He did for the next several years the Holy Ghost school was in full session.
To me it was favoritism but at the same time it was most definitely a separation from any organized religious group. It creates a cleaving
to Him as He is the truth and the truth can only be found with Him.
Your suggestion that I need to be properly "indoctrinated" is unacceptable seeing I have been taught the truth already by He who is truth.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Mis-use- your opinion.
Taught is exactly what the Holy Ghost has done for me. Properly trained and taught by Him, not a man made "church" doctrine.

The lord woke me up one night years ago at 3:33 and I heard the word Jeremiah. I did not want to get up and look at it and was pleading to
look at it in the morning when I got up. I never moved but just laid there in a king size bed. My wife who was about 3 feet away and dead
asleep and turned away from me said "YOUR NOT DOING WHAT I TOLD YOU TO DO!" He spoke to my external ear with her voice.
needless to say I got up and looked at the passage. There is no 3:33 in Jeremiah but in 33:3 it says "Call unto me and I will answer thee,
and show thee great and mighty things thou knowest not. I did and He did for the next several years the Holy Ghost school was in full session.
To me it was favoritism but at the same time it was most definitely a separation from any organized religious group. It creates a cleaving
to Him as He is the truth and the truth can only be found with Him.
Your suggestion that I need to be properly "indoctrinated" is unacceptable seeing I have been taught the truth already by He who is truth.

And yet, you are not abiding in the truth. You are seeking out those who, as Paul says to Timothy, teach false doctrines that tickle your ears. It is not the Holy Spirit who teaches you these things, He is calling you to faith in Christ by abiding in the truth. If there is a spirit at work here, it is the spirit of antichrist which John warns about right here in 1 John ch. 2.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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Tell me. Do you pray in tongues often? Cast out any unclean spirits? Been sent By Him to do His will?

Pray that you should never boast except in the cross of Jesus Christ and God's grace which He has for you in Him.

Whatever works you believe you have done that make you special, turn away from them. Turn to Christ, and repent of your sin. Come and abide in Christ. I say again, come, be healed in the Fount of His mercy.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Pray that you should never boast except in the cross of Jesus Christ and God's grace which He has for you in Him.

Whatever works you believe you have done that make you special, turn away from them. Turn to Christ, and repent of your sin. Come and abide in Christ. I say again, come, be healed in the Fount of His mercy.

-CryptoLutheran
Just as expected. Those that have never done these things do not have the Holy Ghost, thus they will not answer the questions, for to answer
NO shows them for who they are, indoctrinated theologians!
Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; in My name shall they cast out devils, they shall speak with new tongues;............

And as I only asked you if you did, there was no boasting on my part. I only wanted to know with whom I was conversing. Now I know.
 
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