Does anyone believe the Bible anymore?

[chris777]

I am new and I couldnt find a thread that I felt comfortable posting in so I am starting a new one.

I do have a few questons about the board, As it appears to be fairly extensive, vs the other boards I have been on.

How long has it been in operation?

I guess I will get to my topic as it was my main curiocity.

First a bit of background.

I was fairly secular before Christ found me, I was deeply involved with science fiction, and dreams of creating it, as well as being fairly interested in science, particularly theoretical physics.
Upon my conversion I have come further and further out of them, I still struggle, it is like they were addictions of sorts, but I do not see them as compatible with scripture.

I used to believe in theistic evolution, it was my "compromise" with a vague belief in God ,and my indoctrination, and love of science, and science fiction. having Evolution forced down my throat, with little to no opposition, as I didnt read the bible, nor go to church back in the day.

I began to research several interest of mine for my own fictional story. Various "religions" astrology, witchcraft, and scientific interest, with my bible quietly sitting in the background, to make a long story short, the more I read the bible, the more I believed it, the more I believed it, the less i believed everything else. Now dont assume I just gave them Up because the bible said so, I tested many theories and I deas I had and had been led to believe as I was indoctrinated, I ran a few "simulations: of evolution, and the origin of life, before I concluded they were utter fantasy. I probably should Try and compose them, as I have yet to see or hear of anything comparable, and someone /might find them useful.

But bact to the topic, I was browsig the boards to try and get a feel for what goes on here, and I noticed, some rather extensive debates particularly involving "science" and I noticed that everything seems to be lumped into 2 main camps, the Scientist, who proclaim evolution based on "evidence" and the Creationist who attempt to justify scripture based on scientific reasoning and principles. Now granted I used to be a scientist, and have basically come to completely reject it, As I see its foundations as too deeply ingrained in secular thought, notions, and "wisdom". And I was wondering, does anyone ever just believe what the bible says anymore? Theire are all these new earth old earth dated theologies, (which scriptures give no dates, either way 6000 or 666billion jillion quadratillion)
But it does Give testimony, particularly the Testimony of Jesus himself, which is of particular interest to me in that He completely affirmed the Genesis account. So are these people who believe in anyform of evoluton, saying that Jesus lied to us? are they saying he was just an ignorant "un evolved" fool?

I don't know about the rest of you But I am EXTREMELY cautious about Doctrines, that do not directly originate in the scripture, the bible calls us Christians, not prodebaptocathmians or whatever the "trendy " labele currently is, And the same principal should also apply to "creationism "and "Evolution" (theistic or otherwise)
The bible says God spoke and it was, the bible calls them Miracles, Not "supernatural". Why are we degrading the scripture, by using terminology that doesn;t exist in the word of God?
Chew on this a bit, The Pharisees, Sadducees and the lofty Sanhedrin who were the most well educated and well versed in scripture, Were the Equivalent to our modern day "educated elite" Had the very savior that their scriptures Proclaimed before their very eyes, and they COULD NOT SEE him.
In all of their Knowledge, and wisdom, they were blind, and deaf. Completely to the truth.

How is it that modern Christians, and or Scientist, are somehow less blind, smarter, more "evolved" than those of the past, when The bible clearly states their is nothing new under the sun?
Are we really any better than they were, or are we just as prideful, and in some cases moreso than they were?

Just think about it.

I am also concerned with how we are Hiding our Bibles behind "creationism" , and" intelligent Design" like we are embarrased of the scriptures, like they are some sort of childish fairy tales.

Does anyone else feel this way? or am I alone.

 

[David Brider]

I am new and I couldnt find a thread that I felt comfortable posting in so I am starting a new one.

I do have a few questons about the board, As it appears to be fairly extensive, vs the other boards I have been on.

How long has it been in operation?

I guess I will get to my topic as it was my main curiocity.

First a bit of background.

I was fairly secular before Christ found me, I was deeply involved with science fiction, and dreams of creating it, as well as being fairly interested in science, particularly theoretical physics.
Upon my conversion I have come further and further out of them, I still struggle, it is like they were addictions of sorts, but I do not see them as compatible with scripture.

I used to believe in theistic evolution, it was my "compromise" with a vague belief in God ,and my indoctrination, and love of science, and science fiction. having Evolution forced down my throat, with little to no opposition, as I didnt read the bible, nor go to church back in the day.

I began to research several interest of mine for my own fictional story. Various "religions" astrology, witchcraft, and scientific interest, with my bible quietly sitting in the background, to make a long story short, the more I read the bible, the more I believed it, the more I believed it, the less i believed everything else. Now dont assume I just gave them Up because the bible said so, I tested many theories and I deas I had and had been led to believe as I was indoctrinated, I ran a few "simulations: of evolution, and the origin of life, before I concluded they were utter fantasy. I probably should Try and compose them, as I have yet to see or hear of anything comparable, and someone /might find them useful.

But bact to the topic, I was browsig the boards to try and get a feel for what goes on here, and I noticed, some rather extensive debates particularly involving "science" and I noticed that everything seems to be lumped into 2 main camps, the Scientist, who proclaim evolution based on "evidence" and the Creationist who attempt to justify scripture based on scientific reasoning and principles. Now granted I used to be a scientist, and have basically come to completely reject it, As I see its foundations as too deeply ingrained in secular thought, notions, and "wisdom". And I was wondering, does anyone ever just believe what the bible says anymore? Theire are all these new earth old earth dated theologies, (which scriptures give no dates, either way 6000 or 666billion jillion quadratillion)
But it does Give testimony, particularly the Testimony of Jesus himself, which is of particular interest to me in that He completely affirmed the Genesis account. So are these people who believe in anyform of evoluton, saying that Jesus lied to us? are they saying he was just an ignorant "un evolved" fool?

I don't know about the rest of you But I am EXTREMELY cautious about Doctrines, that do not directly originate in the scripture, the bible calls us Christians, not prodebaptocathmians or whatever the "trendy " labele currently is, And the same principal should also apply to "creationism "and "Evolution" (theistic or otherwise)
The bible says God spoke and it was, the bible calls them Miracles, Not "supernatural". Why are we degrading the scripture, by using terminology that doesn;t exist in the word of God?
Chew on this a bit, The Pharisees, Sadducees and the lofty Sanhedrin who were the most well educated and well versed in scripture, Were the Equivalent to our modern day "educated elite" Had the very savior that their scriptures Proclaimed before their very eyes, and they COULD NOT SEE him.
In all of their Knowledge, and wisdom, they were blind, and deaf. Completely to the truth.

How is it that modern Christians, and or Scientist, are somehow less blind, smarter, more "evolved" than those of the past, when The bible clearly states their is nothing new under the sun?
Are we really any better than they were, or are we just as prideful, and in some cases moreso than they were?

Just think about it.

I am also concerned with how we are Hiding our Bibles behind "creationism" , and" intelligent Design" like we are embarrased of the scriptures, like they are some sort of childish fairy tales.

Does anyone else feel this way? or am I alone.

IMO, neither science nor science fiction can be "incompatible" with scripture. Science fiction can't be, because it's just fiction, so although it might make unScriptural claims they're noy necessarily factual. Science can't be, because science, at its root, is about observing the universe and making deductions based on those observations. There are many Christians who are scientists in various fields - John Polkinghorne, Patrick Dixon, and David Wilkinson, to name just three.

FWIW.

David.

 

[David Brider]

And further to what I posted before - we're to love God with all of our mind. IMO, a healthy interest in science is not only compatible with that, it's one of the most obvious expressions of it - using our mind to observe and enquire and investigate the whole creation that God's given us to be stewards of.

David.

 

[vossler]

But bact to the topic, I was browsing the boards to try and get a feel for what goes on here, and I noticed, some rather extensive debates particularly involving "science" and I noticed that everything seems to be lumped into 2 main camps, the Scientist, who proclaim evolution based on "evidence" and the Creationist who attempt to justify scripture based on scientific reasoning and principles. Now granted I used to be a scientist, and have basically come to completely reject it, As I see its foundations as too deeply ingrained in secular thought, notions, and "wisdom". And I was wondering, does anyone ever just believe what the bible says anymore?

I'll focus my answer on the portion of your post that interests me the most. I'm certainly not one who will make an argument for creation based on science. My foundation and all the walls that have been built from it, are formulated and anchored in Scripture. Everything else, if it is to have any value at all, will support Scripture.

I love science as much as anyone and am constantly amazed at scientific discoveries. Unfortunately pure science has been adulterated by human prejudices and ideas which cannot be supported by an objective, empirical and observable process. This purely man driven process has been injected into biblical interpretation and so polluted it that today we teach that man, God's ultimate creation, man, ultimately evolved out of a primordial soup of sorts over billions of years. Unfortunately, many Christians have bought this lie that came straight from the pit of hell.

For the life of me I just don't know how we can take man's impure and polluted mind and use it to speculate and then declare we somehow know "how God did it." Creation has become an exercise for man to show his arrogance through his 'awesome mind and intellect' as opposed to God's omnipotent power, awesome splendor and complete love for His creation. His creation is so absolutely stunning, beautiful, purposeful, intricate, delicate, strong and everlasting that for me or anyone else to somehow think I have an understanding of how He did it, is incredibly prideful. I can't even begin to put into words just how incredible it is, yet many will go way beyond that and attempt to tell us how He did it. This isn't hard to understand when it comes to unbelievers, but for believers to do so, well, I just see it as a prime example of the sad, sad state of the church.

 

[chris777]

I'll focus my answer on the portion of your post that interests me the most.

as will I

I'm certainly not one who will make an argument for creation based on science. My foundation and all the walls that have been built from it, are formulated and anchored in Scripture. Everything else, if it is to have any value at all, will support Scripture.

Amen

I love science as much as anyone and am constantly amazed at scientific discoveries. Unfortunately pure science has been adulterated by human prejudices and ideas which cannot be supported by an objective, empirical and observable process. This purely man driven process has been injected into biblical interpretation and so polluted it that today we teach that man, God's ultimate creation, man, ultimately evolved out of a primordial soup of sorts over billions of years. Unfortunately, many Christians have bought this lie that came straight from the pit of hell.

For the life of me I just don't know how we can take man's impure and polluted mind and use it to speculate and then declare we somehow know "how God did it." Creation has become an exercise for man to show his arrogance through his 'awesome mind and intellect' as opposed to God's omnipotent power, awesome splendor and complete love for His creation. His creation is so absolutely stunning, beautiful, purposeful, intricate, delicate, strong and everlasting that for me or anyone else to somehow think I have an understanding of how He did it, is incredibly prideful. I can't even begin to put into words just how incredible it is, yet many will go way beyond that and attempt to tell us how He did it. This isn't hard to understand when it comes to unbelievers, but for believers to do so, well, I just see it as a prime example of the sad, sad state of the church.

I realize that by being new and by the very nature of message boards themselves what I was attempting to convey probably did not come completely across.
My newfound aversion to science comes not only from the same observation you have made of it, in that if we discover how it is exactly that God performs a miracle, then is it still a miracle? and if by discovering the how, are we not seeking equality with God himself? But also When I researched the origins of science itself I discoverd Its deep roots in pagan philosophy, alchemy, and so called "mystery" religions.
And it makes me ask, when did we ever redeem something that had pagan origins in it, by incorporating those ideas within ourselves? Science fiction I believe does that, fiction by its very nature is a lie, fantasy, and the love of it, is at its conclusion the love of a lie. I was deeply entrenched in it, and now that I have seperated myself from the "crowd" and look back into it, I see the lost. We can try to justify something all we want to by proclaiming its benefits, one of my friends is going to work full time for the highest paying local busness, and I am sure he will be financally well off for the rest of his life, but does that make it ok to go to work for a Beer manufacturer? Sure not everyone is a drunk, but for how many is this a stumbling block? and not just for themselves but their entire families? I have been to science fiction conventions where the women have literally walked around in the nude, with children of all ages intermingled. where at least half the attendees are parading around in costumes that glorify demons, And the bible is desecrated, as abomination. If you don't believe me see for yourself, but be careful it doesnt ensnare you too. My point is, just because a christian can get into science fiction, and still maintain their faith, how many more so the lost does it ensnare, who will never seek, nor find the truth because the truth is presented as just another fiction?
cases in point, ET and its "parralells" to Christ, the terminators John Connor=JC, Star wars and its virgin births, many fiction writers, base their stories on myths, and myths are religions, we as christians realize they are false , but the world does not, and therefore they become ensnared in these lies, and because they are derived, and or ripped off from the scriptures they believe the scriptures are just another myth.

Satan still uses the oldest tric in the book "eat this fruit and ye shall be as God"

 

[Mallon]

Don't forget the Matrix! And the Chronicles of Narnia!

 

[IReckonSow]

I like to watch shows explaning how the world came about, but not to believe it as true but to... Well, It makes me smile. Some make me laugh out loud. One show tried to explain how the oceans were filled with water. They said it was from a bombardment of comets. The scientist say there is some water in comets.... but the world is covered mostly by water. Can you imagine how many comets would have to fall to earth to not only fill the oceans but also the polar ice caps? Ya cant always believe what you hear or what you appear to see. Have faith in Gods Word.

HEBREWS 11 [1] Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.[2] For by it the elders obtained a good report.[3] THROUGH FAITH WE UNDERSTAND THAT THE WORLDS WERE FRAMED BY THE WORD OF GOD, SO THAT THINGS WHICH ARE SEEN WERE NOT MADE OF THINGS WHICH DO APPEAR.

 

[Dannager]

I like to watch shows explaning how the world came about, but not to believe it as true but to... Well, It makes me smile. Some make me laugh out loud. One show tried to explain how the oceans were filled with water. They said it was from a bombardment of comets. The scientist say there is some water in comets.... but the world is covered mostly by water. Can you imagine how many comets would have to fall to earth to not only fill the oceans but also the polar ice caps? Ya cant always believe what you hear or what you appear to see.

I've created a thread in the main Origins Theology board to address this particular claim as debate is not allowed on the creationist-only subforum. The thread is located at http://www.christianforums.com/t3247890-origin-of-water-on-earth.html#post25841608.

 

[chaoschristian]

Howdy, Chris777!

Welcome to CF and OT. May your stay here be joyful and prosperous.

 

[cas07]

to answer your question, i believe in the bible 100%. one only has to think a bit about how amazing the human body is, or how awesome the universe is to realize that only God could have created any of it.

 

[chris777]

Don't forget the Matrix! And the Chronicles of Narnia!

I didn't, but their are so many I figured start small to see if anyone noticed

 

[chris777]

to answer your question, i believe in the bible 100%. one only has to think a bit about how amazing the human body is, or how awesome the universe is to realize that only God could have created any of it.

I know I got wordy but I am glad someone else believes the Bible over what man can imagine

 

[mark kennedy]

I am new and I couldnt find a thread that I felt comfortable posting in so I am starting a new one.

I do have a few questons about the board, As it appears to be fairly extensive, vs the other boards I have been on.

How long has it been in operation?

Wikipedia has a pretty good summation of the history of CF.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Forums

I developed an interest in creationism arguing it on a secular board. After they banned all religious discussion I happened upon CF.

I guess I will get to my topic as it was my main curiocity.

First a bit of background.

I was fairly secular before Christ found me, I was deeply involved with science fiction, and dreams of creating it, as well as being fairly interested in science, particularly theoretical physics.
Upon my conversion I have come further and further out of them, I still struggle, it is like they were addictions of sorts, but I do not see them as compatible with scripture.

I would be interested in your thoughts on the subject of science fiction. I share you concern that science fiction can be a hinderance to Christian spiritual growth but I would like hear how you came to your conclusions.

I used to believe in theistic evolution, it was my "compromise" with a vague belief in God ,and my indoctrination, and love of science, and science fiction. having Evolution forced down my throat, with little to no opposition, as I didnt read the bible, nor go to church back in the day.

Evolution is not the problem, it's the science fiction of the single common ancestor model that causes all the problems.

I began to research several interest of mine for my own fictional story. Various "religions" astrology, witchcraft, and scientific interest, with my bible quietly sitting in the background, to make a long story short, the more I read the bible, the more I believed it, the more I believed it, the less i believed everything else. Now dont assume I just gave them Up because the bible said so, I tested many theories and I deas I had and had been led to believe as I was indoctrinated, I ran a few "simulations: of evolution, and the origin of life, before I concluded they were utter fantasy. I probably should Try and compose them, as I have yet to see or hear of anything comparable, and someone /might find them useful.

That sounds like you went through a long difficult process. It's not easy in this day and age rejecting the leading theory of origins embraced by the best and brightest minds in science. The modern world has rejected the Bible as history and as a result have distorted human history. If you want to compose your thoughts on evolution I would be very interested in reading them. I have some resources you might find helpfull if you are interested.

But bact to the topic, I was browsig the boards to try and get a feel for what goes on here, and I noticed, some rather extensive debates particularly involving "science" and I noticed that everything seems to be lumped into 2 main camps, the Scientist, who proclaim evolution based on "evidence" and the Creationist who attempt to justify scripture based on scientific reasoning and principles. Now granted I used to be a scientist, and have basically come to completely reject it, As I see its foundations as too deeply ingrained in secular thought, notions, and "wisdom". And I was wondering, does anyone ever just believe what the bible says anymore? Theire are all these new earth old earth dated theologies, (which scriptures give no dates, either way 6000 or 666billion jillion quadratillion)
But it does Give testimony, particularly the Testimony of Jesus himself, which is of particular interest to me in that He completely affirmed the Genesis account. So are these people who believe in anyform of evoluton, saying that Jesus lied to us? are they saying he was just an ignorant "un evolved" fool?

There is no need to reject science, you just have to keep it in it's proper context. Science is about making and using tools, not making sweeping generalities into the primordial past. So you were a scientist? Would you care to share a little more about that?

I don't know about the rest of you But I am EXTREMELY cautious about Doctrines, that do not directly originate in the scripture, the bible calls us Christians, not prodebaptocathmians or whatever the "trendy " labele currently is, And the same principal should also apply to "creationism "and "Evolution" (theistic or otherwise)
The bible says God spoke and it was, the bible calls them Miracles, Not "supernatural". Why are we degrading the scripture, by using terminology that doesn;t exist in the word of God?

I've ran into that myself, how many doctrines about baptism do you really need? Early in my Christian walk I kept triping over controversies about doctrines that did not interest me in the slightest. I'm fascinated by things like Psalm 22 being a vision of the cross and I got tired of hearing a lot of arguments about how water baptism is done.

By the way, for God to create the world and everything in it by the speaking of words is not supernatural for Him. That is what He does and bear in mind the Bible predicts that God is going to recreate the world, the universe and even heaven at the end of the age.

Chew on this a bit, The Pharisees, Sadducees and the lofty Sanhedrin who were the most well educated and well versed in scripture, Were the Equivalent to our modern day "educated elite" Had the very savior that their scriptures Proclaimed before their very eyes, and they COULD NOT SEE him.
In all of their Knowledge, and wisdom, they were blind, and deaf. Completely to the truth.

Yea but think about this, the Pharisees were the villians of the Gospels. Then in Acts a Pharisee becomes the Apostle to the Gentiles. I understand what you are saying about those who say they see being blind. Remember the man born blind in John 9 (I could be off on the referance). Jesus tells his critics 'I am the light of the world' at the feast of tabranacles. He leaves them and walks down a path that leads past a pool. There is a man who was born blind and Jesus gives him sight. Jesus says that this is the reason He came into the world, to give sight to the blind and to blind the eyes of those who say they see.

How is it that modern Christians, and or Scientist, are somehow less blind, smarter, more "evolved" than those of the past, when The bible clearly states their is nothing new under the sun?
Are we really any better than they were, or are we just as prideful, and in some cases moreso than they were?

Just think about it.

I hear you brother but lets not throw the baby out with the bath water. Modern science is making insights into things that stagger the imagination. Ok, there is a problem with them seeing the most obvious reality in the universe, God Himself. We all struggle to see the glory of God in the created universe, our prayer should allways be God have mercy on me a sinner

I am also concerned with how we are Hiding our Bibles behind "creationism" , and" intelligent Design" like we are embarrased of the scriptures, like they are some sort of childish fairy tales.

You don't cast pearls before swine and I try to stick to purely scientific source material when arguing for creationism. I think it's important to use evidence that a scientifically minded person can relate to. My thing is evidential apologetics and it's a powerfull line of evidence. I never waiver from my conviction that the Bible is a true and reliable account of redemptive history. It's important to take things in their proper context but I am not even remotely ashamed of the Scriptures. I just wish professing Christains took more time to learn it's sacred history.

Does anyone else feel this way? or am I alone.

I think I know where you are coming from but you are not alone. Sometimes you may have to stand alone in some of these debates but that goes with the territory. If there is anything I can do to help you along your way you can post it here are drop me a PM.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[RichardT]

I'll focus my answer on the portion of your post that interests me the most. I'm certainly not one who will make an argument for creation based on science. My foundation and all the walls that have been built from it, are formulated and anchored in Scripture. Everything else, if it is to have any value at all, will support Scripture.

I love science as much as anyone and am constantly amazed at scientific discoveries. Unfortunately pure science has been adulterated by human prejudices and ideas which cannot be supported by an objective, empirical and observable process. This purely man driven process has been injected into biblical interpretation and so polluted it that today we teach that man, God's ultimate creation, man, ultimately evolved out of a primordial soup of sorts over billions of years. Unfortunately, many Christians have bought this lie that came straight from the pit of hell.

For the life of me I just don't know how we can take man's impure and polluted mind and use it to speculate and then declare we somehow know "how God did it." Creation has become an exercise for man to show his arrogance through his 'awesome mind and intellect' as opposed to God's omnipotent power, awesome splendor and complete love for His creation. His creation is so absolutely stunning, beautiful, purposeful, intricate, delicate, strong and everlasting that for me or anyone else to somehow think I have an understanding of how He did it, is incredibly prideful. I can't even begin to put into words just how incredible it is, yet many will go way beyond that and attempt to tell us how He did it. This isn't hard to understand when it comes to unbelievers, but for believers to do so, well, I just see it as a prime example of the sad, sad state of the church.

Were only preaching the bible. Were only trying to tell you how it happened through the bible...

 

[vossler]

Were only preaching the bible. Were only trying to tell you how it happened through the bible...

Who is we and what are all of you trying to tell us?

 

[RichardT]

Who is we and what are all of you trying to tell us?

6 day creationism. We, being bible litteralists..

 

[vossler]

6 day creationism. We, being bible litteralists..

Then why did you direct that initial comment to me?