Doctrines of Devils?

[amariselle]

A question, then. Why pick THIS particular part of Scripture to worry about? Do you think YOU are going to a church that practices the dogmas of demons? Are there not other planks in your eye that need cleaning out first, before trying to clean the speck out of others?

Just asking...

You think I started this thread to point my finger at other people?

If so, you've missed the point.

As with so many other threads on this forum, people share Scripture and ask other Christians what their thoughts are.

You are incorrect if you think this is about me trying to pick on other people or insult anyone.

 

[Phantasman]

"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:

For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained." 1 Timothy 4:1-6

If the Bible says that forbidding to marry and commanding that people "abstain" from meats are "doctrines of devils", why do so many Christians accept these restrictions (often commanded and imposed by church leadership) as actually from God Himself?

Thoughts?

Lots of thoughts here.

"Latter times" of what? I see "latter" as after Christs appearance. Not "end of days".

I could easily apply the catholic ideology to that statement. Priests don't marry, eat fish only on fridays, seduced by physical power of fear, etc.

But it goes beyond that. It is a return to the physical tenet (and law) of the OT. The "devils" want us to love (and obey) fleshly things, as they are of the "God of this world. It is in direct conflict of the God of spirit, the Father.

Man is seduced by love of physical (mammon) while seeking love of spirit (God the Father). You cannot serve two masters, and the verse is saying that man will eventually find a compromise to serve both.

This has already happened, and continues today.

Matthew:

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

So who are these people? The ones who think they were Christian, yet never followed Christ.

Gospel of Philip:
If one goes down into the water and comes up without having received anything, and says "I am a Christian," he has borrowed the name at interest. But if he receives the Holy Spirit, he has the name as a gift. He who has received a gift does not have to give it back, but of him who has borrowed it at interest, payment is demanded. This is the way it happens to one when he experiences a mystery.

 

[amariselle]

This is a kind of doctrine of demons -
not that it specifically is, but it is used to oppose God's Word instead of to obey God's Word.

We don't obey God's Word in order to be saved. We obey JOYOUSLY and GLADLY and TOTALLY WILLINGLY because we are GOD'S CHILDREN BORN AGAIN BY HIM !!!!!!!!!!!!
as written throughout His Word.

You do realize that what I said is specifically stated in Scripture right? Hardly a "doctrine of demons."

In any case, it seems you do not want to stay on topic, and would rather comment on my personal faith and suggest that I'm not obedient to God.

So, I won't be responding to your posts further.

God bless

 

[amariselle]

Lots of thoughts here.

"Latter times" of what? I see "latter" as after Christs appearance. Not "end of days".

I could easily apply the catholic ideology to that statement. Priests don't marry, eat fish only on fridays, seduced by physical power of fear, etc.

But it goes beyond that. It is a return to the physical tenet (and law) of the OT. The "devils" want us to love (and obey) fleshly things, as they are of the "God of this world. It is in direct conflict of the God of spirit, the Father.

Man is seduced by love of physical (mammon) while seeking love of spirit (God the Father). You cannot serve two masters, and the verse is saying that man will eventually find a compromise to serve both.

This has already happened, and continues today.

Matthew:

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

So who are these people? The ones who think they were Christian, yet never followed Christ.

Gospel of Philip:
If one goes down into the water and comes up without having received anything, and says "I am a Christian," he has borrowed the name at interest. But if he receives the Holy Spirit, he has the name as a gift. He who has received a gift does not have to give it back, but of him who has borrowed it at interest, payment is demanded. This is the way it happens to one when he experiences a mystery.

I think from Scripture we can conclude that we are indeed in "the latter times." As for the Law, well, Satan has been trying to get people to believe they have to do something to be saved all along.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

QUOTE="yeshuaslavejeff, post: 71539830, member: 96665"]
Why do you think there is here such controversy over TORAH ?
It is because the devil hates it.

See in the title "doctrines of devils" ?

Now, do you think you should obey man's laws, and NOT OBEY GOD ? if so, why ?

And, if you do obey man's laws, then why not obey God's Laws, which are much better ?r

Who do you think started the doctrines of devils, opposed to God's Laws, opposed to God's Word, opposed to Salvation, and opposed to Jesus ?[/QUOTE
Thank you Walter and Deborah for your prayers especially, and your participation on this forum.
YHWH Bless you greatly as He has already, continually, daily, in your walk in Christ Jesus !

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

moved

 

[claninja]

Whether someone personally chooses and/or is convicted by God to do such things is between them and the Lord. When it is imposed upon them by others, however, that is another matter.

The point is in making religious demands. That does not equate to health suggestions made by the American Cancer Association.

The number 1 cause of death is heart disease. If we, as christians, know this, and know that a western diet high in animal protein is one of the main contributors to heart disease, should we advise people to abstain from meat as our bodies are Gods temple? Or would that be of the devil?

 

[amariselle]

The number 1 cause of death is heart disease. If we, as christians, know this, and know that a western diet high in animal protein is one of the main contributors to heart disease, should we advise people to abstain from meat as our bodies are Gods temple? Or would that be of the devil?

There is a huge difference between "advising" someone of something and commanding or requiring that they do so. (Especially in regards to their faith and relationship with God)

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

moved (medical topic)

 

[amariselle]

The number 1 cause of death is heart disease. If we, as christians, know this, and know that a western diet high in animal protein is one of the main contributors to heart disease, should we advise people to abstain from meat as our bodies are Gods temple? Or would that be of the devil?

Also, I think that vehicle related deaths likely come pretty close to heart disease, perhaps even higher (and not just because of driving under the influence) should we be telling all Christians they shouldn't drive or ride in vehicles as well?

We are mortal after all and eventually we are all going to die physically, unless Christ returns first.

As I said, good health advice is not the same as making religious demands or enforcing religious restrictions on people. That is legalism.

 

[claninja]

There is a huge difference between "advising" someone of something and commanding or requiring that they do so. (Especially in regards to their faith and relationship with God)

People don't really listen to commands or requirements, hence the old covenant ended.
So if you know eating a diet high in meat is not good for you and is actually hurting your health, would you still eat it anyway, even though your body is a temple of God?

 

[Monk Brendan]

You are incorrect if you think this is about me trying to pick on other people or insult anyone.

No, it was never my intent to ask if you or others were trying to insult other people.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

moved

 

[amariselle]

People don't really listen to commands or requirements, hence the old covenant ended.
So if you know eating a diet high in meat is not good for you and is actually hurting your health, would you still eat it anyway, even though your body is a temple of God?

I actually don't personally eat a lot of meat, but I'm not going to be making religious demands of other people in this regard.

And the Old Covenant didn't end because people wouldn't listen to it, it ended because Jesus perfectly fulfilled all the requirements of it.

 

[amariselle]

No, it was never my intent to ask if you or others were trying to insult other people.

Alright. I'm glad, because I only wish to discuss some thoughts on those passages of Scripture.

 

[claninja]

And the Old Covenant didn't end because people wouldn't listen to it, it ended because Jesus perfectly fulfilled all the requirements of it.

Absolutely agree. For if the first covenant could have taken away sin, there would have been no need for a new.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

And the Old Covenant didn't end because people wouldn't listen to it, it ended because Jesus perfectly fulfilled all the requirements of it.

You won't find this in Scripture anywhere. (in context of Salvation, God's Plan, etc )
(edit add: later you responded mistakenly thinking I was referring to Jesus perfectly fulfilling all the requirements of TORAH.
Actually, if you check all Scripture, you will find His Perfect Obedience to TORAH was not the reason the Old Covenant ended, and neither was Jesus fulfillment of anything the reason the Old Covenant ended.) Subject to verification in Scripture, of course...... see ? Test everything, and don't take offense at Jesus or His disciples. "Blessed is everyone who does not find any offense in ME (JESUS) " ..

 

[amariselle]

As I pointed out , your statement may be in Scripture, but you used it, or tried to , to promote disobedience to God's Word.
Has that now become a "doctrine of God" !?

Okay, I know I said I was done responding to your off topic posts. However, that's a pretty serious accusation to make against someone.

I think you need to read more carefully. And please refrain from personal attacks.

 

[claninja]

We are mortal after all and eventually we are all going to die physically, unless Christ returns first.

So we can eat and drink for tomorrow we die!

 

[amariselle]

You won't find this in Scripture anywhere. (in context of Salvation, God's Plan, etc )

Really? So Jesus didn't fulfill the righteous requirements of the Law (as given in the Old Covenant with God's chosen people, the Jews)