Do you think that homosexuals go to hell 2

[Neogaia777]

It's not an opinion, it's a scientific fact. Even the most devout of Christians who have tried to turn straight, have failed after years and years of prayer and methods to do it. Jesus says gays are born that way.

Where does Jesus say "they are born that way?" Could you provide scripture please?

 

[paulm50]

I've never heard of a version that puts homosexuals in that verse, but then there are probably versions I have not read...I can't keep up with all of them, nor do I intend to try.
We can look at the original Greek word used in that passage, and see that it referred to a eunuch, not to a homosexual.

We can wait.

I don't think that it was ever anyone's intention to keep us from enjoying sex...but only to channel that enjoyment into a loving and sexually satisfying relationship between one man and one woman.

Then why are we created in the opposite way?

We see the results of out-of-control sex all over the place...and it isn't pretty.
The idea that humans ought to conduct our sex lives like a bunch of animals just doesn't make good sense to me at all.
What the heck is wrong with committing your love to just one person?

Actually it is pretty. We are turned on by seeing it, a Chemical is released into our body that stimulates desire. When we see a sex act we enjoy doing, or a person we find attractive. And there are animals that are monogamous.

What's wrong with committing your love to just one person. Nothing at all.

Sex has nothing to do with love. I have enjoyed having sex with a lot of girls. That's very easy. I have only fallen in love once. Two bad marriages I was able to get out of. Third time lucky. Love is so far more than sex, sex is pretty good with most people, good on your own. Love is living with someone you can't live without, someone who more than completes me, she adds to me things I didn't know I had, she makes me smile when everything else makes me sad.

Never compare sex with love, love deserves more.

On the other hand, sex is bloody good as well. LOL

 

[ToBeLoved]

Are Christians obsessed with homosexuals? Mehbe.

 

[TheBarrd]

We can wait.

We don't have to wait. It's already been done. Jesus was not talking about homosexuals in that verse. He was referring to eunuchs.

Then why are we created in the opposite way?

It is perfectly possible to enjoy sex withing a committed marriage relationship. I have done exactly that.

Actually it is pretty. We are turned on by seeing it, a Chemical is released into our body that stimulates desire. When we see a sex act we enjoy doing, or a person we find attractive.

I wasn't talking about the sex itself, although someone who could enjoy watching other people having sex is kinda ewww. I was talking about the result of uncontrolled sex...abortion, abused and neglected children, single moms working two jobs, trying to take care of kids by themselves...then there are prostitution rings, even in grammar school, little girls being sold for sex as young as eight or nine, high school kids who come home with life-threatening venereal diseases, etc. ...not to mention the dark side of sex...things like rape, or incest, or child molesting. Brrrr
We live in a culture that glorifies sex. Sure, sex is good...but it isn't the end-all and be-all of our existence. There are other things in life that are just as good, if not better.

And there are animals that are monogamous.

Yes, there are. But, for some reason, those are not the animals we usually hear about in these debates. There seem to be a few folks who think we ought to conduct our sex lives after the pattern of bonobo monkeys.

What's wrong with committing your love to just one person. Nothing at all.

I'm very glad to hear you say that.

Sex has nothing to do with love.

Loveless sex is just empty sex. There really isn't any joy in it. A vibrator will do just as well.

I have enjoyed having sex with a lot of girls. That's very easy.

I'm sure it was. Too easy.
I'll stick with my vibrator. Sex whenever I want, and it doesn't cheat on me or take my money, or talk back to me. Easy sex, with no strings.

I have only fallen in love once. Two bad marriages I was able to get out of. Third time lucky.

Do you think that, if it weren't for "no fault divorce" (what an oxymoron!), you might have been more careful about who you chose to marry? Because a good marriage isn't a lucky coincidence.
A good marriage takes work.

Love is so far more than sex, sex is pretty good with most people, good on your own.

Yes, love is much more than sex. According to my grandmother, who had one of the best marriages I've ever been privileged to witness, love is not about going to bed with a man...it is about getting up in the morning with that man, every morning of your life. Love, she told me, is about learning to see through one another, and still enjoy the view.

Love is living with someone you can't live without, someone who more than completes me, she adds to me things I didn't know I had, she makes me smile when everything else makes me sad.

Sounds like you "lucked out." Well, even a blind squirrel can find an acorn, or so I'm told.
And I'll bet that the sex is the best even an experienced old ladies man like yourself has ever enjoyed, too. But I'm not interested in peeking into your bedroom, Paulm.

Never compare sex with love, love deserves more.

I couldn't argue with that, even if I wanted to.

On the other hand, sex is bloody good as well. LOL

Not if it's going to leave you cold and alone the next morning. You can keep that kind of sex...

 

[TheBarrd]

Are Christians obsessed with homosexuals? Mehbe.

Actually, about the only time I even think about it is when I am directly confronted with it.
And I'm willing to bet that's pretty much the same with most Christians. Believe it or not, we don't sit around contemplating just how much we hate homosexuals.

 

[cedric1200]

No, but it does seem like Christians enjoy confronting sin more then they enjoy giving encouragement.

 

[TheBarrd]

No, but it does seem like Christians enjoy confronting sin more then they enjoy giving encouragement.

Is it your idea, then, that we ought to encourage sin?
I have said many times, in these forums, and in real life, that sin...any sin, not just this one...is hard to overcome.
But, with the Lord's help, it can be done.
I'll be the first one to sympathize with the plight of someone who finds him/herself attracted to his/her own sex...I can't even imagine how difficult that must be. Especially in these days, when so many people are "accepting" of gays. How much harder is it to fight sin in yourself when the society you live in approves of that sin?
But I can't tell him or her to go ahead and indulge their flesh, can I? It is a sin, just as surely as molesting a child, or partying down with a goat, or getting it on with a corpse, or any other sexual perversion is a sin...yes, and just as sickening to God.

 

[Winken]

No, but it does seem like Christians enjoy confronting sin more then they enjoy giving encouragement.

Our ministry is not to be confrontational in that sense. We are to encourage that each person confront sin based upon scripture, God's Word, not ours. There is joy in knowing that one has had the opportunity to speak (or write) to others about the negatives of sin, as one is directed to do so by the Holy Spirit.

 

[TheBarrd]

Our ministry is not to be confrontational in that sense. We are to encourage that each person confront sin based upon scripture, God's Word, not ours. There is joy in knowing that one has had the opportunity to speak (or write) to others about the negatives of sin, as one is directed to do so by the Holy Spirit.

Okay...that's pretty much what I said, only not quite as "wordy"...

 

[ToBeLoved]

Actually, about the only time I even think about it is when I am directly confronted with it.
And I'm willing to bet that's pretty much the same with most Christians. Believe it or not, we don't sit around contemplating just how much we hate homosexuals.

I didn't say 'hate'.

How many threads are about inappropriate content vs. homosexuals? Homosexuals are always a topic because most people who start threads are not homosexuals, so they are singled out because they are an easy target. Many threads on homosexuals in the last month or two on CF. Too many, that's all I'm saying. Why not talk about sex outside of marriage? Why is it most always homosexuals. Both are sins of lust.

 

[Svt4Him]

Are Christians obsessed with homosexuals? Mehbe.

Everyone tries to appease their conscience when they are in sin. Goes back to Adam blaming Eve and Eve blaming a snake.

As for why it's popping up, I'd just hazard a guess, and I could be wrong, but I'd just maybe just a wee tiny bit think for the same reason rainbows are showing up on facebook.

 

[Svt4Him]

So why make the actual moment of conception, essential for life, a sin?

You are taking David's verse out of context and intent. Apart from when David said this, and there are many who say his mom was in sin, which is why Jesse didn't bring David out, there is no indication people are in sin the moment of conception. Original sin is also a fallacy created by certain denominations, but not supported by the Bible.

2 to 3 witnesses for any truth. Good rule of thumb.

 

[stevenfrancis]

And one can't repent of being a homosexual, anymore than one can repent of being black or Jewish.

It's not "being" a homosexual that places a person in need of repentance. Although, to be fair, you are stating the natural state case as if it were scientific fact, and I'm not so sure it is. In any event, it's not germaine to the homosexuality Christian debate. Doesn't matter why someone acts out with homosexual sex. It matters that that many have lost the sense of sin because of secular culture. Just as hetero sexuals are losing the sense of sin for adultery and fornication. All are deadly sins which can lead to hell if not repented of. Heterosexuals can't help that they are heterosexual. They CAN help having sex prior to, or outside of wedlock. Homosexuals can't help having attractions to the same sex. They CAN help HAVING sex with the same gender. When any of us commits sins, we need to ask for forgiveness and make attempts to amend our lives with God's grace. Christianity isn't passive. It's a living, breathing thing.

There are many gays that are good Christians and try to live a righteous life. But that isn't going to turn them straight.

See, this is a contradiction in terms if you look at this closely. This is simply bumper sticker sloganeering on behalf on secular modern culture. First of all, if identifying as "gay", a person is generally quite happy with the lifestyle which that ensues. It would seem to me that if someone were really trying to be a good Christian and live a righteous life, they would identify as struggling with same sex attraction. But that's just semantics. The word gay has dominated the landscape for so long that it's possible that some legitimate folks struggling with sexual purity still identify as gay. But the big problem with this statement is that part of being a Christian and living a righteous life, is conforming oneself to Christ. Acknowledging one's own sinfulness, and repenting every time we fall; asking for forgiveness, and the grace and strength to avoid sin in the future, and that which tempts us to sinfulness.

 

[stevenfrancis]

Original sin is also a fallacy created by certain denominations, but not supported by the Bible..

In what way is original sin not supported by the Bible? It's pretty much right there in straight forward fashion right in Genesis.

 

[Winken]

Original sin is also a fallacy created by certain denominations, but not supported by the Bible.

Hello?

 

[Svt4Him]

In what way is original sin not supported by the Bible? It's pretty much right there in straight forward fashion right in Genesis.

Do you understand what original sin is? It's the belief that a child is born in sin, which is different than being born with a sinful nature. It's a RCC teaching. So when David was talking about how in sin his mother conceived him, it's used, incorrectly, to imply that childbirth is sin.

Oh, I see you're RCC, so you'd probably understand it better than most, but it's not supported. A different thread though to debate the merits of this dogma.

 

[paulm50]

Are Christians obsessed with homosexuals? Mehbe.

Most religions are. The why is the big question.

 

[paulm50]

We don't have to wait. It's already been done. Jesus was not talking about homosexuals in that verse. He was referring to eunuchs.

So we can assume it's been changed to fit what men wanted.

It is perfectly possible to enjoy sex withing a committed marriage relationship. I have done exactly that.

Agreed.

I wasn't talking about the sex itself, although someone who could enjoy watching other people having sex is kinda ewww. I was talking about the result of uncontrolled sex...abortion, abused and neglected children, single moms working two jobs, trying to take care of kids by themselves...then there are prostitution rings, even in grammar school, little girls being sold for sex as young as eight or nine, high school kids who come home with life-threatening venereal diseases, etc. ...not to mention the dark side of sex...things like rape, or incest, or child molesting. Brrrr
We live in a culture that glorifies sex. Sure, sex is good...but it isn't the end-all and be-all of our existence. There are other things in life that are just as good, if not better.

It has to be enjoyable to watch for the billions to wacth it. Sex sells.

None of the things you point out are exclusive to today. The bible writes rules on selling women and children for the pleasure of their owners. They also had prostitutes, rape, and all the rest. The question is how do we deal with it properly in the modern world.

Sex education, legalised controlled and inspected brothels.

We live in a world that glorifies sex, because sex sells. Which is how we were created. And that world started 10,000s of years ago.

Yes, there are. But, for some reason, those are not the animals we usually hear about in these debates. There seem to be a few folks who think we ought to conduct our sex lives after the pattern of bonobo monkeys.

We are related to apes. Are you saying we should live like swans or penguins?

I'm very glad to hear you say that.

Loveless sex is just empty sex. There really isn't any joy in it. A vibrator will do just as well.

That's a personal opinion, try one with your partner, or a girl and see how it goes.
I'm sure it was. Too easy.
I'll stick with my vibrator. Sex whenever I want, and it doesn't cheat on me or take my money, or talk back to me. Easy sex, with no strings.

Do you think that, if it weren't for "no fault divorce" (what an oxymoron!), you might have been more careful about who you chose to marry? Because a good marriage isn't a lucky coincidence.
A good marriage takes work.

Or go back to the time when a man could easily divorce a woman. A woman wasn't allowed to divorce a man.

I married for keeps, people change. My first two wives weren't prepared to change back and I could not change for them. It would of meant sadness. Are you married?

Yes, love is much more than sex. According to my grandmother, who had one of the best marriages I've ever been privileged to witness, love is not about going to bed with a man...it is about getting up in the morning with that man, every morning of your life. Love, she told me, is about learning to see through one another, and still enjoy the view.

Not if it's going to leave you cold and alone the next morning. You can keep that kind of sex...

Personal view. Single people always wake up alone, or sometimes with a friend. At least they always don't go to bed alone.

Sexual drives are inside us. A vibrator is good, an electric massed is fantastic for girls, Pifco Magic Wand, an Acuvibe, or similar works even better. Using them with someone else is about sharing the pleasure, giving and receiving. Obviously one has to drop the notion that one is being used, invaded, forced. It's about sharing something with someone you would like to share something with.

If you're happier alone then fine. For the majority it's better with someone else. So long as the emotions of deep attachment aren't there.

 

[TheBarrd]

I didn't say 'hate'.

How many threads are about inappropriate content vs. homosexuals? Homosexuals are always a topic because most people who start threads are not homosexuals, so they are singled out because they are an easy target. Many threads on homosexuals in the last month or two on CF. Too many, that's all I'm saying. Why not talk about sex outside of marriage? Why is it most always homosexuals. Both are sins of lust.

You're probably seeing it a lot more than usual lately because of the SCOTUS decision making same sex marriage legal in all fifty states.
Personally, I think more Christians ought to be concerned with no fault divorce. Marriage is supposed to be "till death do we part", not "till we get tired of each other" or "till we meet someone we like better". God says the only legitimate reason for a divorce is adultery. Too many Christians seem to think that it is just fine to get a divorce and then marry a different partner, but in God's eyes, this is adultery...just as much a sin as homosexuality.
I don't know if the aversion to homosexuality will die down or not. Frankly, the idea of two men or two women trying to have sex with one another sickens me...but then, I'm from the "Baby Boomer" generation. Maybe that has something to do with it.

In any case, you do acknowledge that it is a sin. You call it "a sin of lust". So, you do realize that it is a sin.
That's a start, anyway...

 

[paulm50]

No, but it does seem like Christians enjoy confronting sin more then they enjoy giving encouragement.

Read all the rules they imposed on people and more importantly women.

In what way is original sin not supported by the Bible? It's pretty much right there in straight forward fashion right in Genesis.

So doing the thing that ensures we don't go extinct, is a sin.
And don't come back within a marriage. Children are born and conceived in sin. Says so, in the bible.

It's a man made law designed to make people feel guilty. No one in their right mind and certainly no god would design a body with sexual urges to ensure we reproduce, then call the act of ensuring reproduction a sin.

Except men with an ulterior motive of control the RCC has a lot ot be guilty for.