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Do you think homosexuals go to Hell??

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Hank77

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So, can you explain WHY there are so many posts in CF condemning gays, and so few condemning Christians who steal, or lie, or speak harshly to their child or spouse ? The statistical inequality screams hypocrisy.
How many come on here and say they are a thief and they believe it is OK to keep being a thief? If they did they would get the same truth, that stealing is not OK. You need to repent and do your best to trust the Lord that He will help you to be healed from being a kleptomaniac. He will help you to resist the temptation to steal.
Do adulterers become advocates for adultery announcing their actions to the world and proclaiming that it is OK with God?
I was in a church when a two people were in an adulterous affair. They were told they had to stop or leave the church until they did. They said they stopped and they were allowed to stay. But then they didn't stop and the church took action. But you aren't going to hear things like this on the nightly news or in the newspaper. They didn't picket the church because they felt they were treated unfairly.
 
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StephanieSomer

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How many come on here and say they are a thief and they believe it is OK to keep being a thief? If they did they would get the same truth, that stealing is not OK. You need to repent and do your best to trust the Lord that He will help you to be healed from being a kleptomaniac. He will help you to resist the temptation to steal.
Do adulterers become advocates for adultery announcing their actions to the world and proclaiming that it is OK with God?
I was in a church when a two people were in an adulterous affair. They were told they had to stop or leave the church until they did. They said they stopped and they were allowed to stay. But then they didn't stop and the church took action. But you aren't going to hear things like this on the nightly news or in the newspaper. They didn't picket the church because they felt they were treated unfairly.

Yes, they do. Thousands of "Christian" couples in all our churches are living in adultery by having remarried after a divorce. There are several instances where divorce is allowable, even though it is still hated by God. There are only two occasions of divorce which allow for a remarriage. And, MOST of those professing Christians do NOT fall under either of the two, yet defend their marriage as absolutely ok with God. I've had dozens of people here at CF insist that the Scripture does NOT say what it says. By what it DOES say, they ARE living in unrepentant adultery. Why is that NOT an issue, but what two unbelievers do IS?
 
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Hank77

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Yes, they do. Thousands of "Christian" couples in all our churches are living in adultery by having remarried after a divorce. There are several instances where divorce is allowable, even though it is still hated by God. There are only two occasions of divorce which allow for a remarriage. And, MOST of those professing Christians do NOT fall under either of the two, yet defend their marriage as absolutely ok with God. I've had dozens of people here at CF insist that the Scripture does NOT say what it says. By what it DOES say, they ARE living in unrepentant adultery. Why is that NOT an issue, but what two unbelievers do IS?
And there are churches that don't let divorced and remarried people be members of the church. But the point is they are not out picketing the church and getting in the news, so you don't hear about it. Believe me if they did that there would be a lot of anger towards that behavior.
 
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StephanieSomer

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And there are churches that don't let divorced and remarried people be members of the church. But the point is they are not out picketing the church and getting in the news, so you don't hear about it. Believe me if they did that there would be a lot of anger towards that behavior.

No there wouldn't be. Like I said, dozens HERE have argued with me that they are NOT in adultery, yet their circumstances do not fall under the two instances which allow for it. And nobody else here had anything to say to them for their denial, except me. The church turns a blind eye to it's gross immorality and then goes on a rampage against those who aren't IN the church. THAT is hypocrisy.
 
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Marius27

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@StephanieSomer :

I said earlier in the thread that homosexuals can go to Heaven if they repent and turn away from it and accept Christ.
This makes no sense. You can't repent and turn away from being gay. That's as absurd as saying you can repent and turn away from being black. There are countless gays who already follow Christ and he will not change their orientation. 99.9% of everyone who has ever tried to change their orientation has failed, and it usually causes extreme harm. By advocating that people turn away from being gay, you're advocating doing harm to them.

If we're talking about homosexual behavior/relationships, one can choose to avoid them, but again, that too causes extreme harm and loneliness in most people and it goes contrary to both Jesus and Paul's teachings on celibacy and relationships.

The fact of the matter is, the Conservative Christian point of view causes extreme destruction and harm to the LGBT community and there is no Biblical solution to the problem, contrary to what people would like to believe. There is a contradiction no matter what option you go for.
 
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Marius27

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It is "impossible"?
For 99% of the population yes. Even the most religious Ex-gay organization in the world closed, and it's President issued an apology for all the harm they caused trying to turn people straight and admitted none of their hundreds or thousands of members have ever changed their orientation, even with devout prayer and a religious program designed to turn them straight.

Tell that to the people who were Healed from their unnatural lust towards other men. I've seen their testimonies and read about their stories.
And in almost all those cases, they're just living a lie or they're bisexual. There is not a single shred of scientific evidence that anyone has fundamentally changed their orientation and most efforts to do so cause far more damage to the person, often leading to suicide.


Nothing is "impossible" for God. Nothing.
God can't cease to exist, so yes there are things impossible for God. As to whether this is impossible, God could theoretically change one's orientation or gender, but he has chosen not to based on all legitimate evidence on earth.


That's basically what the late Rev. Wilkerson is saying in this video -- a lot of people will pray once or twice and it doesn't happen so they give up on it and say "it's impossible" or "it's hopeless" even though Scripture says that there is NOTHING God can't do.
Uh no, I know people who have prayed sincerely for years or decades and God never changes them. This is the problem with your belief system. You think if other people didn't get the results you believe they should have gotten, they did it wrong or didn't pray hard enough, instead of humbling yourself and admitting that you're probably wrong.
 
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Hank77

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No there wouldn't be. Like I said, dozens HERE have argued with me that they are NOT in adultery, yet their circumstances do not fall under the two instances which allow for it. And nobody else here had anything to say to them for their denial, except me. The church turns a blind eye to it's gross immorality and then goes on a rampage against those who aren't IN the church. THAT is hypocrisy.
I can't comment on that because I didn't see any of those posts.
 
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Dan61861

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If a sinner dies in his sins, he is condemned. It doesn't matter what sin is committed. One sin against the law, condemns under all of the law. Thanks be to God, we have Christ our Lord. This is what's so amazing about the Grace of God. For by Christ, we are no longer under the Law. There is no condemnation in those that are in Christ Jesus.

A homosexual, like any sinner that has come to Christ rest in Him as we all rest in Him. I do believe Homosexuality is a sin, just as damning as any other sin. Yet, he has the ability to turn to Jesus anytime he falls, just as all Christians have. If he is in Christ, he is in His rest, no longer striving to be righteous as he has put on the righteousness of Christ.

Is man greater than God? Jesus tells us to forgive our brothers 70x7 times if he has offended us. Imagine, my brother steals from me. I am to forgive him. Imagine him stealing from me 70x7 times, I am to forgive him. How much greater is the mercy of Almighty God! When we fall, He has forgiven us innumerable times.

It is our duty to help a brother or a sister in Christ. One with this particular cross to bear should be supported and loved. Not condoning the sin, but loving the brother. For if we condemn them, we condemn ourselves. We are all sinners, we all fall short of the glory of God. May we all strengthen one another in Christ.
May God be magnified in all that we do.

In Christ
Daniel
 
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Svt4Him

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Yes, they do. Thousands of "Christian" couples in all our churches are living in adultery by having remarried after a divorce. There are several instances where divorce is allowable, even though it is still hated by God. There are only two occasions of divorce which allow for a remarriage. And, MOST of those professing Christians do NOT fall under either of the two, yet defend their marriage as absolutely ok with God. I've had dozens of people here at CF insist that the Scripture does NOT say what it says. By what it DOES say, they ARE living in unrepentant adultery. Why is that NOT an issue, but what two unbelievers do IS?

Feel free to start a new topic as this is simply not fit for this. Just a fyi, Jesus was not being asked about divorce, He was being asked about put away, therefore there is a slight error in some translations. Therefore in this case you must study to show yourself approved, rightly dividing the word of truth.

http://www.totalhealth.bz/divorce-and-remarriage-truth-1.htm

So nope, still doesn't make another sin right.

Any time we have conflicting verses, like as found in Deut and Matt, you must study it deeper.
 
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Svt4Him

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For 99% of the population yes. Even the most religious Ex-gay organization in the world closed, and it's President issued an apology for all the harm they caused trying to turn people straight and admitted none of their hundreds or thousands of members have ever changed their orientation, even with devout prayer and a religious program designed to turn them straight.

Some have changed.

And in almost all those cases, they're just living a lie or they're bisexual. There is not a single shred of scientific evidence that anyone has fundamentally changed their orientation and most efforts to do so cause far more damage to the person, often leading to suicide.

Well that's one way to dismiss their testimony.


God can't cease to exist, so yes there are things impossible for God. As to whether this is impossible, God could theoretically change one's orientation or gender, but he has chosen not to based on all legitimate evidence on earth.

Therefore I'm an adulterer for life, or a fornicator for life? Or is me not doing that the change that's required.

Uh no, I know people who have prayed sincerely for years or decades and God never changes them. This is the problem with your belief system. You think if other people didn't get the results you believe they should have gotten, they did it wrong or didn't pray hard enough, instead of humbling yourself and admitting that you're probably wrong.

Ummm...squirrel.[/QUOTE]
 
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Lazy_Proverb

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homosexuality only makes one forget about God for the rest of their lives. At the end, they will find out they got nowhere and then probably be saved with deep regret
I like the remark Dr.Ben Carson made with regard to his personal opinion about this subject. He said, when God changes his mind about homosexuality, Dr.Carson will change his.

The scriptures are very clear in both testaments.If a Christian accepts the scriptures as authentic words of God, guidance for ones life based on God's laws and will for righteous living, then they have to be consistent in that belief and accept what God says about this.
 
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grandvizier1006

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I know this has been a reeeeeally long thread, and the course it's taken doesn't surprise me at all. But I would like to give my two cents.

Growing up and entering puberty, I had Internet access and a curiosity about what people looked like naked. You can imagine what happened as a result. While I never actually have looked at porn per se, I treated lots of things like it was porn.

As a result of the budding sexuality, I became what is known as "bi-curious". I did not choose this, nor was I born with these desires. They came from my own mind that fooled me into thinking that the naked human form was inherently sexual and worth pleasuring myself to.

I loved with fear of being caught and shame for years. I thought that my life would be ruined if I was found out, and for me, there no love involved. I didn't enter into any homosexual relationships--i couldn't navigate socially, nor was I even sure if I wanted such a thing.

It made parts of my adolescence pretty painful. I didn't really know why I was doing what I was doing--men and women both turned me on, but in a sense it was not natural--it was forced. I forced myself into having a sexual response, and soon it became instinctive. I wanted the women I saw. I wanted to be the men I saw, and maybe I wanted them sexually as well because I wanted them to fulfill my own manliness for me. I was barely a man as it stood.

I knew what a bisexual was, and looking it up I was repulsed. I didn't want that sort of lifestyle. I didn't want to be an "LGBT" person. I hadn't chosen this. And yet, supposedly, I was "stuck" this way. And what I feared the most was not people finding out and ostracizing me, but to be found out and accepted as someone who I was not, and all pleas to the contrary would be dismissed as just me being "in denial". How could I oppose gay marriage in light of masturbating to men? I did not want to be exposed as a hypocrite.

at some point my parents did catch me, but only after I had confessed (they had found out about my brother's habits first). They simply said "don't do it again or you'll get arrested". (They misunderstood what I had been looking at, and I was too humiliated to elaborate.)

I continued, of course. And I still do because I'm a sinner and I'm not perfect. However...

I did learn a lot about my own sexuality, and of how other people's tends to work as well. I realized why I wanted women and men, and that just looking at things did not ruin me to a life as a "bisexual". Maybe, because of it, I'm not "100% straight", but I do know that I, like most humans, am oriented to be sexual, and it's up to me to glorify God with my sexuality instead of just doing what I see fit. My body is not my own, but God's. Who am I to taint it with something very clearly expressed as sin?

My same-sex attractions are not so prominent anymore, and for the most part outside of the times when I look for something dirty, I find myself desiring to have sex with women invariably over men. So maybe I'm not a "true bisexual", but I have had struggles with my sexuality. And I would love to help other people with these sorts of problems even if the modern world insists I'm dangerous to them. Unlike a lot of Christians, I've had guilt of my sexuality, pain from feeling like an "other", and very similar struggles as homosexuals probably have had.

but in Christ, I am free. I still sin, but I know now that it doesn't have to mean what I think it means. I don't have to hate myself or the people trying to normalize sexual sin. I personally think that the church started the gay rights movement--not on purpose, but by shunning gay people and and then not appropriately handling the concept of homosexuality, whether attractions or actual sex. So now we have let the secular society take over and dictate our sexual norms. And those relaxed sexual norms let me get placed in an environment full of porn that caused me to stumble the way it did. But I ought not to blame society for my own faults, like a lot of people do.

I completely understand why a person would want an intimate relationship with a person of the same sex. I understand why a person would crave love and acceptance, and even find such a person sexually attractive. I've been through all of that.

But the sexual activity is still sinful. God knows our hearts and mindsets, and he knows they are deceitful. I believe the reason God prohibited homosexual relationships, aside from reproduction and emphasizing the importance of both mothers and fathers in raising children, he wanted people's masculinity or feminity fulfilled in Himself, not in another person.

In the past, I loved masturbating to muscular naked men, as well as women. I didn't want to have sex with them, I don't think, but I did want to be fulfilled by them. I wanted their validation, their approval that I was a man like them. I wanted their love, their bodies, their respect and acknowledgement. I wanted to be a real man, not a skinny wimp like I was.

I had to realize that God made me male. And that there was nothing I needed to do to prove it to myself. Not masturbating to men to try and find masculine energy in them. Not to women to prove I was a real man who got aroused by sexy women, like I thought all men did and should. But because God made me that way.

I know that there is probably a whole lot more to it than that, but I know why I did what I did and how it affected me. And I know now that there are ways for me to embrace my sexuality and not feel like I'm sinning. Many times my OCD makes me afraid that the battle isn't won or that people on here will try and convince me that I'm a closeted homosexual. But I have no reason to live in fear. God has seen to it that I'd be set free from sin and self-hatred.
 
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Hank77

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makes me afraid that the battle isn't won or that people on here will try and convince me that I'm a closeted homosexual.
So much harm has been by homosexuals telling others that they too are homosexuals and that they were just born that way. At the same time the church as done harm too by saying that all homosexuals willingly choose to be homosexuals. I think the truth is not the same for each individual. There can be many psychological things going on. I say this because I personally know four active homosexuals. One that I have known from the day she was born and now is an adult. They are all very different people, come from very different backgrounds, and their lives as adults all look very different. But in each case there are clues as to what was/is going on with them psychologically and how they were drawn in to that identity and then life style.
 
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tulipbee

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Man and woman joined together and becomes one flesh. That only applies to two people produces a child. Since two men or two women can't have children, they can't become one flesh. Homosexuality has nothing to do with marriage and that means theyre just doing what they do. What they do is exactly the same as what we do, living with pleasure. Same as food pleasure, sight pleasurs, hearing pleasure. So Christians are the ones that forget about Gid cause they spend so much useless time being homophobic which has nothing to do with the bible. Christians are entertaining themselves cause they're bored cause they can't find God.
 
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Svt4Him

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Man and woman joined together and becomes one flesh. That only applies to two people produces a child. Since two men or two women can't have children, they can't become one flesh. Homosexuality has nothing to do with marriage and that means theyre just doing what they do. What they do is exactly the same as what we do, living with pleasure. Same as food pleasure, sight pleasurs, hearing pleasure. So Christians are the ones that forget about Gid cause they spend so much useless time being homophobic which has nothing to do with the bible. Christians are entertaining themselves cause they're bored cause they can't find God.

Nope, not true. By this definition, people who can't have children, for whatever reason, can't have sex. There is sex for intimacy, as found in Song 1:13, 2:3, 2:6 and 4:5, companionship Song 3:1 and pleasure song 1:2.

And sexual sins are different.

Hey, way to use the term homophobic. I also said adultery is wrong, am I adultraphobic? Lieaphobic? Stealingaphobic?
 
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Xalith

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Nope, not true. By this definition, people who can't have children, for whatever reason, can't have sex. There is sex for intimacy, as found in Song 1:13, 2:3, 2:6 and 4:5, companionship Song 3:1 and pleasure song 1:2

Well, let us not forget that sex was a gift He gave to those who pledge their lives to each other in holy marriage, a marriage between a man and a woman. He designed woman to be with man from the very start.

And sexual sins are different.
Which is why the Bible speaks so strongly against Lust, Fornication, Adultery, and yes, I'm still going with the Bible being against homosexual sex.

The enemy has done so much damage to one of the greatest gifts God has ever given us, turned it around into something completely horrible and sickening.

Hey, way to use the term homophobic. I also said adultery is wrong, am I adultraphobic? Lieaphobic? Stealingaphobic?

In a way, yes... we are adultraphobic, liaphobic, and stealingaphobic, lol. We don't like these things, and we hate these things, as the Bible says that we should love what He loves, and hate what He hates.

One gets closer to God by being more like God... or it could be the other way around; As one gets closer to God, they become more like God. Is that not one of the many things the Holy Spirit does while He indwells us? Makes us more like Him? Wouldn't that include sharing His feelings towards various topics?

EDIT: I am not saying we should hate the PEOPLE. No, not at all! God does not hate people. He so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son so that we might be saved, remember? Don't hate the homosexuals, Please. Hate the sin, not the people who commit the sin.
 
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Marius27

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Sexually immoral practicing homosexuals, yes. So do a lot of other sinners. Romans 1:26-32 and 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 are abundantly clear when it comes to homosexuality and other sins.
As I've already explained countless times, no they are no abundantly clear. Homosexuals does not exist in the original 1 Corinthians and even Saint Augustine said Romans 1 is referring to heterosexuals. It's discussing pagan idolatry, not homosexuality.
 
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AmericanChristian91

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My same-sex attractions are not so prominent anymore, and for the most part outside of the times when I look for something dirty, I find myself desiring to have sex with women invariably over men. So maybe I'm not a "true bisexual",

Many times my OCD makes me afraid that the battle isn't won or that people on here will try and convince me that I'm a closeted homosexual.

It takes great courage to talk about your sexual orientation on this website or simply with other people.

Anyways about your point of not being a "true bisexual", a misconception about bisexuality is that bisexuals have to have equal attraction to both sexes. While im sure that is the case for some Bisexuals, Bisexuals can have preferences. Some prefer one sex over the other. All one has to be to be considered a bisexual, is to have sexual attraction to both sexes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisexuality

And onto that other point of yours. Unfortunately this exists.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisexual_erasure

I would not be surprised that some would react here, and in your own personal life, with the revelation that you not being straight......MUST mean your then gay. Some have a black and white view when it comes to sexuality. So Bisexuals are not just discriminated against by people who are straight, but gays as well. They get crap from both sides of the "fence"

Also, besides your parents, does anyone else in your life (excluding people on the internet) know that your not straight? And if they found out, what was their reaction? If your not comfortable with answering this question (whether in this topic or a PM) then no problem :)
 
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grandvizier1006

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It takes great courage to talk about your sexual orientation on this website or simply with other people.

Anyways about your point of not being a "true bisexual", a misconception about bisexuality is that bisexuals have to have equal attraction to both sexes. While im sure that is the case for some Bisexuals, Bisexuals can have preferences. Some prefer one sex over the other. All one has to be to be considered a bisexual, is to have sexual attraction to both sexes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisexuality

And onto that other point of yours. Unfortunately this exists.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisexual_erasure

I would not be surprised that some would react here, and in your own personal life, with the revelation that you not being straight......MUST mean your then gay. Some have a black and white view when it comes to sexuality.

Also, besides your parents, does anyone else in your life (excluding people on the internet) know that your not straight? And if they found out, what was their reaction? If your not comfortable with answering this question (whether in this topic or a PM) then no problem :)
I don't mean to be rude, but the thing is, I'm not bisexual per se, but would probably be assumed as such. I don't want to have sex with a man, but I do sometimes find myself wanting to have sex with a woman. I don't think I have to put myself in some label as a "bisexual" because I don't want to date, marry or have sex with another man. Bisexuality is just another label I'm not identifying by. Jut because I had struggles with prom in the past does not make me a bisexual.

I am honestly not sure with what my parents know specifically, but I would not date, marry or have sex with another man, and they know me well enough to know that without me saying it. I just know that when I was younger I was trying to figure out my sexuality, and labels like bisexual hurt me psychologically far more than they helped me.
 
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