Do You Follow the Teachings of Messiah?

[HARK!]

The poll has an extreme bias in it

What bias would that be? Biased toward obedience to YHWH? If so, what's wrong with that?

 

[HARK!]

Exactly right. All the speech is summed up

Did you look back just one verse from the verse you quoted out of context?

7 Request and it shall be given you. Seek and you shall find. Knock and it shall be opened to you." 8 For everyone who is requesting is obtaining, and who is seeking is finding, and to him who is knocking it shall be opened." 9 Or what man is there among you, from whom his son will be requesting bread-no stone will he be handing him!" 10 Or he will be requesting a fish also-no serpent will he be handing him! 11 If you, then, being wicked, have perceived how to be giving good gifts to your children, how much rather shall your Father Who is in the heavens be giving good things to those requesting Him?

Tell me; what does any of this have to do with loving your associate?

 

[HARK!]

YHWH created your neighbor.
" observing the mote that is in your brother's eye"

Are you implying that I've picked at a shortcoming in your obedience to YHWH?

If so; you're mistaken. I don't even know what you're talking about. i don't know you; nor what your lifestyle is like. Perhaps it was the Ruach Ha'Kodesh speaking to you.

 

[HARK!]

No, it wasn't.

Proof?

And I think there's even a rule against posting context-free scriptures like that.

What I posted was in context; but if you find that rule; I'd like to see it anyway.

 

[HARK!]

Yes, its a false dichotomy.

Not it's not.

Do you follow the teachings of Messiah, or not?

We can be under grace and still seek His will.

Correct.

Its not "either - or".

It is an either or. It's either, yes, in faith you seek perfect obedience to YHWH's will, not of your own strength, but through him working through you, with Yahshua as our example.

OR,

No, you think that you can ignore YHWH's commandments because you are covered by grace.

 

[HARK!]

The Law of Moses does not consist in reading a book. It consists in strict OBSERVANCE.

That's right. The law of Moses is the law given to Moses by YHWH. It's the law that Yahshua followed; as he calls us to follow him.

There is no way to observe the Law of Moses and hasn't been since AD 70.

Nonsense.

You yourself have FAILED MISERABLY to Keep every Jot & Tittle of the Law as you state you (we) are commanded to.

how so?

Jesus gives you no such pass friend.

You don't speak for Yahshua.

Christ demands that every minute detail of the Law of Moses down to the very least of its 600+ commands be kept. He says: "therefore whosoever shall break one of these LEAST commandments and shall teach others to do so, he shall be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven." The passage calls for the keeping of the Law even BEYOND what the Pharisees produced in their practice and observance (Matt 5:20).

That's right.

Or again, do you give yourself special dispensation to ignore and reject His teaching on this the way you demonstrably have done?

How so?

Perhaps you believe He didn't really MEAN what He SAID?

Perhaps I do. Do you?

 

[HARK!]

Jesus brought the Mosaic contract/economy to an end when he instituted his New Covenant contract/economy. The Mosaic contract began at Sinai and reached its consummation in the generation of The Christ. The Christic contract begins at Mt. Zion in the first century and has no end.

And?

Hebrews 7:11-19 makes clear that the Mosaic constitution instituted by Moses and transacted through the Levitical priesthood was not the way to perfection. As such, it was made obsolete by the Christic constitution instituted by The Christ and transacted via the Melchizedekian priesthood. It will NEVER AGAIN return.

Here is a short list of verses that I've gathered on sacrifices that will be made in the Kingdom to come. It's a work in progress.


Ezekiel 43:

19 And you have given unto the priests, the Levites, who [are] of the seed of Zadok--who are near unto Me, an affirmation of the Lord Yahweh, to serve Me--a calf from the herd, for a sin-offering." 20 And you have taken of its blood, and have put it on its four horns, and on the four corners of its border, and on the border round about, and have cleansed it, and purified it." 21 And you have taken the bullock of the sin-offering, and have burnt it in the appointed place of the house at the outside of the sanctuary." 22 And on the second day you do bring near a kid of the goats, a perfect one, for a sin-offering, and they have cleansed the altar, as they cleansed [it] for the bullock." 23 In your finishing cleansing, you do bring near a calf, a son of the herd, a perfect one, and a ram out of the flock, a perfect one." 24 And you have brought them near before Yahweh, and the priests have cast upon them salt, and have caused them to go up, a burnt-offering to Yahweh." 25 Seven days you do prepare a goat for a sin-offering daily, and a bullock, a son of the herd, and a ram out of the flock, perfect ones, do they prepare." 26 Seven days they purify the altar, and have cleansed it, and filled their hand." 27 And the days are completed, and it has come to pass on the eighth day, and henceforth, the priests prepare on the altar your burnt-offerings and your peace-offerings, and I have accepted you--an affirmation of the Lord Yahweh.'"

Ezekiel 45

(CLV) Isa 56:7
I will bring them also to My holy mountain And make them rejoice in My house of prayer; Their ascent offerings and their sacrifices They shall offer up for acceptance on My altar, For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all peoples.

(CLV) Jer 33:18
As for the Levitical priests there shall not be cut off a man from before Me who offers up the ascent offering and fumes the approach present and offers sacrifices for all the days.

(CLV) Zch 14:20
In that day there shall be on the horse shades: Holy to Yahweh. And the pots in the house of Yahweh will be like the sprinkling bowls before the altar.

(CLV) Zch 14:21
And every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah will come to be holy to Yahweh of hosts. And all who are sacrificing will come and take of them and cook in them. And no longer shall there be a trafficker in the house of Yahweh of hosts, in that day.



(CLV) Mal 3:3
And He will sit like a refiner and a cleanser of silver. And He will cleanse the sons of Levi, and purify them like gold and like silver. And they will come to be for Yahweh, bringing close the approach present in righteousness.

(CLV) Mal 3:4
Then the approach present of Judah and Jerusalem will be congenial to Yahweh as in the days of the eon, and as in former years.

And again, we are certain that no one keeps the Law of Moses because of how many of Moses' precepts depended on Temple sacrifices and the mediation of the Levitical priesthood of Aaron, which went fully extinct at AD 70.

Numbers 25:10-13 King James Version (KJV)
10 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

11 Phinehas, the son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron the priest, hath turned my wrath away from the children of Israel, while he was zealous for my sake among them, that I consumed not the children of Israel in my jealousy.

12 Wherefore say, Behold, I give unto him my covenant of peace:

13 And he shall have it, and his seed after him, even the covenant of an everlasting priesthood; because he was zealous for his God, and made an atonement for the children of Israel.

God's law exists today, but it does so within the New Covenant constitution of the Christ and not of Moses. As the apostles decreed at the Council of Jerusalem in Acts chapter 15:
"He made no distinction between us [Hebrews] and them [Gentiles], cleansing their hearts by faith. Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?" [i.e., the yoke listed in verse 15:5: "the sect of the Pharisees who had believed stood up, saying, 'It is necessary to circumcise them and to direct them to observe the Law of Moses.'"]

They won this debate. It was the nonbelievers who lost. The yoke is perfect obedience to the law before fully coming to faith.

(CLV) Ja 2:22
You are observing that faith worked together with his works, and by works was faith perfected.

(CLV) Ja 2:23
And fulfilled was the scripture which is saying, Now "Abraham believes God, and it is reckoned to him for righteousness," and he was called "the friend of God."

(CLV) Ja 2:24
You see that by works a man is being justified, and not by faith only.

There were only two sides to this debate. You can't add your own ex post facto.

For sure, it is NOT necessary to circumcise the flesh and to direct people to observe the Law Covenant of Moses, (As The OP here appears to be doing) for the Council of Jerusalem decreed such in the first century.

Not exactly.

Right before Paul circumcised Timothy.

 

[DamianWarS]

What bias would that be? Biased toward obedience to YHWH? If so, what's wrong with that?

If you can't see it there is no point explaining it. Your very reply here is bias.

 

[HARK!]

Your very reply here is bias.

So are yours.

Shalom

 

[DamianWarS]

So are yours.

Shalom

I haven't offered an opinion, I've just said the poll was biased so I'm not sure what you mean.

Individual posts may show a bias, and to a point this is expected, but if a poll is bias the results are too and so doesn't tell us anything.

 

[HARK!]

I haven't offered an opinion, I've just said the poll was biased so I'm not sure what you mean.

Individual posts may show a bias, and to a point this is expected, but if a poll is bias the results are too and so doesn't tell us anything.

It's a simple question. You either believe that Yahshua called us to keep our father's way, or not.

Perhaps you think there is another way.

 

[DamianWarS]

It's a simple question. You either believe that Yahshua called us to keep our father's way, or not.

Perhaps you think there is another way.

The other way is not putting a bias in the poll. I accept neither of the options in the poll and find it in poor taste. You should add another option to the poll saying "I reject these options" and see how fast that option climbs. We should always accept the best position from our opponent and not have to rely on straw man arguments to prop up a position.

 

[Dale]

(CLV) Mt 23:1
Then Jesus speaks to the throngs and to His disciples,

(CLV) Mt 23:2
saying, "On Moses' seat are seated the scribes and the Pharisees.

(CLV) Mt 23:3
All, then, whatever they should be saying to you, do and keep it. Yet according to their acts do not be doing, for they are saying and not doing.

The Torah was read from the Moses Seat.

(CLV) Jn 7:16
Jesus, then, answered them and said, "My teaching is not Mine, but His Who sends Me.

(CLV) Jn 14:15
If you should be loving Me, you will be keeping My precepts.

(CLV) 1Jn 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we may be keeping His precepts. And His precepts are not heavy,

(CLV) Jn 17:6
I manifest Thy name to the men whom Thou givest Me out of the world. Thine they were, and to Me Thou givest them, and Thy word they have kept.

"You should not infer that I came to demolish the law or the prophets. I came not to demolish, but to fulfill.


(CLV) Mt 5:18
For verily, I am saying to you, Till heaven and earth should be passing by, one iota or one serif may by no means be passing by from the law till all should be occurring.

Hark: "The Torah was read from the Moses Seat."

What is the Moses Seat? What difference does it make where the Torah was read?
I assume that you are talking about a Synagogue service.

 

[Dale]

(CLV) Mt 23:1
Then Jesus speaks to the throngs and to His disciples,

(CLV) Mt 23:2
saying, "On Moses' seat are seated the scribes and the Pharisees.

(CLV) Mt 23:3
All, then, whatever they should be saying to you, do and keep it. Yet according to their acts do not be doing, for they are saying and not doing.

The Torah was read from the Moses Seat.

(CLV) Jn 7:16
Jesus, then, answered them and said, "My teaching is not Mine, but His Who sends Me.

(CLV) Jn 14:15
If you should be loving Me, you will be keeping My precepts.

(CLV) 1Jn 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we may be keeping His precepts. And His precepts are not heavy,

(CLV) Jn 17:6
I manifest Thy name to the men whom Thou givest Me out of the world. Thine they were, and to Me Thou givest them, and Thy word they have kept.

"You should not infer that I came to demolish the law or the prophets. I came not to demolish, but to fulfill.


(CLV) Mt 5:18
For verily, I am saying to you, Till heaven and earth should be passing by, one iota or one serif may by no means be passing by from the law till all should be occurring.

I notice that you are using the Concordant Litersl Version of the Bible, or CLV.

Is it true that the CLV contains no mention of hell?
Is it true that the CLV contains no mention of eternal punishment?

 

[HARK!]

Hark: "The Torah was read from the Moses Seat."

What is the Moses Seat?

The Moses seat is where the Torah was read from.

Here is a picture of one:

What difference does it make where the Torah was read?

It doesn't, really. In a nutshell, Yahshua is saying to follow the Torah.

 

[HARK!]

I notice that you are using the Concordant Litersl Version of the Bible, or CLV.

Is it true that the CLV contains no mention of hell?
Is it true that the CLV contains no mention of eternal punishment?

I don't know. I use it because it's, for the most part, a literal, word for word translation; and it conforms, for the most part, to the Critical Text.

 

[HARK!]

We should always accept the best position from our opponent and not have to rely on straw man arguments to prop up a position.

This thread isn't about the poll. The poll is just an added bonus. I don't pay heed to argumentum ad populum.

This thread is about the question in the title; and the scripture in the OP.

What's your position?

 

[Dale]

I don't know. I use it because it's, for the most part, a literal, word for word translation; and it conforms, for the most part, to the Critical Text.

According to Wikipedia, a basic objective of the CLV is to use the same English word every time for a given Hebrew word and the same English word every time for a given Greek word.

I don't believe this is consistent with accuracy. It's just a blockheaded way to translate.
I have been told that Greek words express many shades of meaning. Is it the goal of the CLV to ignore those shades of meaning?

 

[DamianWarS]

This thread isn't about the poll. The poll is just an added bonus. I don't pay heed to argumentum ad populum.

This thread is about the question in the title; and the scripture in the OP.

What's your position?

So the poll is just click bait?

 

[HARK!]

So the poll is just click bait?

No, the question asked in the title is click bait. Would you care to answer now?