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Featured Do You Follow the Teachings of Messiah?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by HARK!, Mar 24, 2020.

  1. Yes, I pray throughout my day, for Abba to give me the strength to do his will.

    5 vote(s)
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  2. No, I'm under grace. I can do what's right in my own eyes, so long as I believe.

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  1. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member

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    (CLV) Mt 23:1
    Then Jesus speaks to the throngs and to His disciples,

    (CLV) Mt 23:2
    saying, "On Moses' seat are seated the scribes and the Pharisees.

    (CLV) Mt 23:3
    All, then, whatever they should be saying to you, do and keep it. Yet according to their acts do not be doing, for they are saying and not doing.

    The Torah was read from the Moses Seat.

    (CLV) Jn 7:16
    Jesus, then, answered them and said, "My teaching is not Mine, but His Who sends Me.

    (CLV) Jn 14:15
    If you should be loving Me, you will be keeping My precepts.

    (CLV) 1Jn 5:3
    For this is the love of God, that we may be keeping His precepts. And His precepts are not heavy,

    (CLV) Jn 17:6
    I manifest Thy name to the men whom Thou givest Me out of the world. Thine they were, and to Me Thou givest them, and Thy word they have kept.

    "You should not infer that I came to demolish the law or the prophets. I came not to demolish, but to fulfill.


    (CLV) Mt 5:18
    For verily, I am saying to you, Till heaven and earth should be passing by, one iota or one serif may by no means be passing by from the law till all should be occurring.
     
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  2. crossnote

    crossnote Berean Supporter

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    Why did we have to pit one against the other? I pray because I am under grace, not to do my own thing but I am totally dependent on His grace to please Him.

    Let us then with confidence draw near to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.
    (Heb 4:16)
     
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  3. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member

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    (CLV) Ro 8:7
    because the disposition of the flesh is enmity to God, for it is not subject to the law of God, for neither is it able.

    (CLV) Ro 8:8
    Now those who are in flesh are not able to please God.
     
  4. crossnote

    crossnote Berean Supporter

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    My point is that those who are under grace will come to do what is right...

    Titus 2:11-12 KJV
    [11] For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, [12] Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
     
  5. thecolorsblend

    thecolorsblend If God is your Father, who is your Mother?

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    This is not a reply to the other poster. And no, those quotations do not speak for themselves.
     
  6. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member

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    What is right?

    Are you saying that if you aren't coming to do what is right; that you are not under grace?
     
  7. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member

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    Yes it is.

    See: Law of Noncontradiction


    Paul spoke them.
     
  8. not under law

    not under law Member

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    That is my experience. Love has always been the first casualty for those who earnestly stress obedience to the law as the means to attain heaven(however skilfully they may word it) That is my experience over decades also
     
  9. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

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  10. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    I agree. Both yes and no answers.
     
  11. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member

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    (CLV) Ec 1:9
    What occurred once, it shall occur again, And what was done, it shall be done again. There is nothing at all new under the sun.



    (CLV) Mt 9:13
    Now go, learn what this is: Mercy am I wanting, and not sacrifice. For I did not come to call the just but sinners."

    (CLV) Ho 6:6
    For I desire kindness and not sacrifice, And knowledge of Elohim rather than ascent offerings.

    (CLV) Ho 6:7
    Yet they, like a human, trespass against the covenant; There they are treacherous against Me.
     
  12. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member

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    See: Law of Noncontradiction
     
  13. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    They are not contradictory positions. I pray and I do what is right, as God commands me below.

    James 4:17
    So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.

    James 1:27
    Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.

    John 17:6
    I manifest Thy name to the men whom Thou givest Me out of the world. Thine they were, and to Me Thou givest them, and Thy word they have kept.
    "You should not infer that I came to demolish the law or the prophets. I came not to demolish, but to fulfill.

    Matthew 7:12
    “So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

    (CLV) John 14:15
    If you should be loving Me, you will be keeping My precepts.(Matthew 7:12)

    (CLV) 1 John 5:3
    For this is the love of God, that we may be keeping His precepts. (Matthew 7:12) And His precepts are not heavy,
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2020 at 1:07 AM
  14. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member

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    Is this the sum of the Torah in your eyes?
     
  15. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    Luke 24:44
    Then he said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.”

    Galatians 5:14

    For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

    Matthew 7:12
    “So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this (sums up) is the Law and the Prophets.

    (CLV) Mt 5:18

    For verily, I am saying to you, Till heaven and earth should be passing by, one iota or one serif may by no means be passing by from the law till all should be occurring.

    John 19:30
    When Jesus had received the sour wine, he said,
    It is finished,”
    and he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2020 at 1:16 AM
  16. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member

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    Galatians was written by Paul. Considering that Paul can be easily misunderstood; let's go with what Messiah says. Matthew 7:12 is the closing verse of a long list of commandments.

    Had you considered this one:

    (CLV) Mt 22:36
    "Teacher, what is the great precept in the law?"

    (CLV) Mt 22:37
    Now He averred to him, "You shall be loving the Lord your God with your whole heart, and with your whole soul, and with your whole comprehension.

    (CLV) Mt 22:38
    This is the great and foremost precept.


    Yahshua was quoting the Shema:

    (CLV) Dt 6:5
    So you will love YHWH your Elohim with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your intensity.


    (CLV) Jn 7:16
    Jesus, then, answered them and said, "My teaching is not Mine, but His Who sends Me.

    (CLV) Jn 14:15
    If you should be loving Me, you will be keeping My precepts.

    (CLV) 1Jn 5:3
    For this is the love of God, that we may be keeping His precepts. And His precepts are not heavy,

     
  17. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    This is the reason why. #1

    (CLV) Mt 22:37
    Now He averred to him, "You shall be loving the Lord your God with your whole heart, and with your whole soul, and with your whole comprehension.


    This is what we do because of #1:

    The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

    Galatians 5:14
    For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

    Matthew 7:12
    “So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this (sums up) is the Law and the Prophets.
     
  18. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member

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    If you insist on dragging Paul into this discussion; here are some other things that he preached:

    29 to be abstaining from idol sacrifices, and blood, and what is strangled and prostitution; from which, carefully keeping yourselves

    Now when you can explain how all of that fits in with loving your neighbor as yourself; we can start talking about why we should focus on 'difficult to understand Paul' rather than 'relatively easy to understand Yahshua'.
     
  19. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member

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    Again you're quoting a closing verse to a long shopping list of commands.
     
  20. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    I agree. Paul was stuck on legalism. He never changed on that sin.
    He just changed who he prosecuted and how.
     
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