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...Do you even believe in Evolution in the first palce?

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Archaeopteryx

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I resent that comment. What you are saying, in essence, is that I am not able to apprehend beauty or see a point to things unless I believe I was specially created by some deity. My experience of the world is not impoverished because I don't share your theism.
 
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Heissonear

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When something is more than half missing I call such apprehension lacking substantially. Particularly in view of the Creator's obvious attributes. Try to see the farthest galaxies and all the items along the way. And the dimension of God's understanding about us exceeds that!
 
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AV1611VET

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Didn't Jesus, as God, already have the whole world? How can he decline what he already has?
He has it by virtue of the fact that He created it; but here's how the line goes:

1. God created it.
2. He turned it over to Adam.
3. Adam gave it to Satan.
4. Satan offered it to Jesus, Who declined it.
5. Jesus will soon reclaim it (by force).
6. Jesus will turn it over to the Father.
7. It will be destroyed and remade.
 
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Archaeopteryx

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We are attempting to put restrictions of God? Genesis seems to that. It portrays its deity as an incompetent creator who took 6 days to create the world and then needed to rest. What activity could possibly have fatigued a being that is supposedly omnipotent that he would require rest? He then creates human beings without any concept of right or wrong, places forbidden fruit within their reach, and then blames them for inevitably failing his test - a test for which they were set up to fail. The punishment for this transgression is astronomically out of proportion with the crime: not only are Adam and Eve cursed, but the same doom befalls all their descendants, even to the present day. What happened to justice?
 
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Archaeopteryx

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You think I can't see beauty or wonder or goodness in the world without believing in a deity?
 
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Archaeopteryx

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Satan offered it to Jesus in exchange for what?
 
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AV1611VET

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I have not seen so much error in one post in seven years here.

(That I can recall, anyway.)
 
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AV1611VET

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Satan offered it to Jesus in exchange for what?
Worship.

Matthew 4:9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
 
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AV1611VET

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Go ahead and point them out.


1. God took 6 days on purpose, so as to use that as a template for the workweek as stipulated in Exodus 20:11.

2. God rested on the 7th day, not because He was fatigued, but because He was finished. Rested means ceased.

3. Adam & Eve had a concept of right and wrong, else God would not have ordered them to stay away from the forbidden fruit.

4. The forbidden fruit was not for Adam & Eve, it was -- in my opinion -- for Lucifer and the angels and contained manna.

5. They were not being tested; let alone set up to fail. In fact, Lucifer hadn't even rebelled as yet.

6. Had God not made Adam the federal head of the human race, and given us a sin nature; then Jesus would have to come back and die for each and every person born ... but by making Adam the federal head of the human race, Jesus only has to die once for all.

7. Justice gives way to grace & mercy, when it comes to eternal punishment.

  • justice = getting what you deserve
  • mercy = not getting what you deserve
  • grace = getting what you don't deserve
 
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AV1611VET

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What is the benefit of being worshipped exactly? Why are Gods (and devils) so keen on it?
So you won't place your allegiance where it doesn't belong: like Satan or nature or yourself or...
 
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AV1611VET

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What could a supposedly omnipotent being have to gain from being by worshipped?
Us.

Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
 
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Mr Strawberry

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So, when Jesus "died" for us, whose forgiveness was He seeking?
 
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Archaeopteryx

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1. God took 6 days on purpose, so as to use that as a template for the workweek as stipulated in Exodus 20:11.

Or the authors of Exodus 20:11 also happened to be the authors of Genesis?

2. God rested on the 7th day, not because He was fatigued, but because He was finished. Rested means ceased.

Omnipotent, yet it still took 6 working days?

3. Adam & Eve had a concept of right and wrong, else God would not have ordered them to stay away from the forbidden fruit.

The forbidden fruit was on the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. If the name is any give-away, it would seem that forbidden fruit was the source of a concept of right and wrong. The story certainly implies that this is the case, given that Adam and Eve only experienced the shame of their nakedness after having eaten the fruit.

4. The forbidden fruit was not for Adam & Eve, it was -- in my opinion -- for Lucifer and the angels and contained manna.

In your opinion? Genesis makes no mention of who the fruit was for.

5. They were not being tested; let alone set up to fail. In fact, Lucifer hadn't even rebelled as yet.

I don't even recall Lucifer being mentioned in the account.


Or the entire situation could have been avoided if he hadn't placed the Tree within the reach of people that he knew would partake of it.

7. Justice gives way to grace & mercy, when it comes to eternal punishment.

  • justice = getting what you deserve
  • mercy = not getting what you deserve
  • grace = getting what you don't deserve

Adam and Eve were not at fault in the story. They were created without any knowledge of good and evil and then punished for acquiring that knowledge.
 
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AV1611VET

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So, when Jesus "died" for us, whose forgiveness was He seeking?
No one's.

Jesus was born of a virgin, and thus bypassed having a sin nature.

Else He, too, would be in need of a Saviour.
 
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Mr Strawberry

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So you won't place your allegiance where it doesn't belong: like Satan or nature or yourself or...

What allegiance? Satan doesn't exist; we are a part of nature, you can't avoid that, it's a healthy thing; and I see more self-love in creationists than any other group I've ever come across. So what is this allegiance you are talking about?
 
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AV1611VET

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Adam and Eve were not at fault in the story. They were created without any knowledge of good and evil and then punished for acquiring that knowledge.
Suit yourself ... you have as much freewill as I do to believe what you want to believe.
 
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