Do Pentecostals really speak in Languages? The Research

[Righttruth]

The Opinion on the use and validity of tongues put forth in your post is not based on the totality of scripture. You have ignored what Paul had to say on the matter.

1 Corinthians 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.

14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.

1 Corinthians 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

So speaking in unknown tongue is a private affair, not connected with the Holy Spirit

 

[Righttruth]

Then you must explain what happened here.

John 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

20 And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.

21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:I submit to you this is where the disciples were born again. There is a solid scriptural case to be made for that. I can do that in the morning, I am short on time right now, but I am interested to see how you explain it.

All the eleven chosen apostles were given the help of the Holy Spirit for the continuation of the ministry. This helped in replacing Judas. The outpouring of the Holy Spirit on Pentecost was for the benefit Matthias and other disciples and to unbelieving Jews who had gathered there to witness amazing power of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Righttruth]

Although Jesus blew on the disciples, it doesn't say they received the Holy Spirit at that point. In John 7:39 and John 16:7 Jesus specifically says the disciples would not receive the Holy Spirit while He was with them, but that He would send the Spirit only after he had departed to be with the Father. If they received the Spirit when Jesus blew on them, then Jesus was lying. No, Jesus was simply giving them a visual illustration and a future command in preparation for Pentecost.

John 7:39, 16:7 are related to extending help of the Holy Spirit to all disciples and future believers after ascension. It does not rule out receiving of the Holy Spirit by the eleven apostles specifically earlier before ascension. Jesus had that power.

 

[Righttruth]

wonder what else people can fake ...

People fake thinking that as genuine as portrayed by immature people.

 

[Righttruth]

They shall speak in "other tongues" .. and they spoke in "new" tongues .. interesting isn't it . this fully encompasses the possibility and likelihood they they will speak in languages unheard of upon the earth which the world does not and cannot know . for it cannot fathom the things of the Holy Spirit

The Holy Spirit is interested in communication to living people with real languages, not mysterioius tongues which are worthless.

 

[Righttruth]

and the language of the holy Spirit who has no physical form being that he is "SPIRIT ' .. is his language "real" ?

Yes, real as observed on Pentecost.

 

[rockytopva]

The pharisees would accuse Jesus of operating under the unction of demonic power when in actuality he was operating under the power of the Holy Spirit. If someone is speaking under the unction of the Holy Spirit, I would be very careful on what I said about them...knowing that I was not talking about them, but their underlying power.

 

[Righttruth]

doesn't say only new "to them " just said other tongues and new tongues .
thus fully possible as new to all mankind .

God will not bother about non-existent tongue since He wants to make us hear His words, understand it and practice it.

 

[Righttruth]

I agree. The various foreign countries are mentioned in verses 9-10.

Backing up to Acts 2:4, And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other G2087 [heteros] tongues G1100 [glossa], as the Spirit gave them utterance.

The Greek word [heteros] is not used in any other verse where the believers are said to speak in tongues, but only the Greek word [glossa].

Clearly that indicates (1) a unique occurrence of the gathering hearing the various human languages, in contrast with the indicated uniqueness in all instances after that day of (2) those who speak with glossa that is not of any human language.

(1) The gathered people in Acts 2:4 on the day of Pentecost heard the Galileans speak in the varieties of the foreign languages represented.

(2) In the following examples, the word [heteros] is not used.

Acts 10:46 They were hearing them speaking in tongues G1100 [glossa] and exalting God. Acts 10:45 The gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out upon the Gentiles.

It didn't say that they were hearing them speaking in foreign human languages.

1 Cor.14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues G1100 [glossa] more than ye all.

1 Cor.13:1 Though I speak with the tongues G1100 [glossa] of men and of angels..

Surely speaking the glossa of men, and the glossa of angels is not comparable with speaking a known foreign human language.
Acts 9:36 is a fine example of the writer translating a Hebrew name to Greek for benefit of the readers.

By your use of Acts 9:36, your position is that the use of the word interpretation concerning a way of knowing what is said by those who speak in tongues, is no more than translation G1329 [Diermeneuo] by natural means.
I have done a search in the Blue Letter Bible tools to find that you are mistaken.

For instance, in 1 Cor.12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another, divers kinds of tongues G1100 [glossa]; to another the interpretation G2058 [hermēneia] of tongues G1100 [glossa].

Clearly the Holy Spirit does not give the ability to translate [Diermeneuo] foreign [heteros] languages.. not when translating one human language to another can be learned by natural means.

It would be impossible for any translator of known languages to translate by natural means the glossalia spoken by those who speak in tongues by utterance of the Holy Spirit.
Only a person born again, and filled with the Holy Spirit can be given the ability.

The word 'interpretation' is used rather than the word 'translation' to indicate the divine function involved. It shows that God does for the believers, what cannot be done by natural means because the divinely given utterance cannot etymologically be examined, studied and translated in the manner that the writer of Acts 9:36 translated by natural knowledge, the Hebrew name for the Greek speaking audience.

What happened on Pentecost and elsewhere in the book of Acts is totally different from what was observed in notorious Corinthian church full of immature and ungodly Gentiles.

 

[Righttruth]

act

actualy it says men of those languages heard them speaking in thier own language..so 3 men of 3 different languages could hear one man speaking thier own language... but that would be a miricle a sign and a wonder .

.......

Precisely, not the mocking in Corinthian church with gibberish talk

 

[Righttruth]

the question i asked you is
...and the language of the holy Spirit who has no physical form being that he is "SPIRIT ' .. is his language "real" ?
.. answer that first

Then why don't you ask the question that the Holy Spirit is real?

 

[Righttruth]

this i do not deny .. as i said earlier //tongues is NOT a validation of what a person does or says nor evidence they are living an obedient life towards god . many who speak in tongues will sadly go on to perish . not because they speak in tongues ,but because they do not repent of sin and disobedience and think they are just fine because they ..speak in tongues. but the lord jesus never says that . he said if you love me you will keep my words .. (obedience ) and he is coming back for those who love him .. not those who speak in tongues

Speaking gibberish has never been the gift of the Holy Spirit in the first place

 

[Righttruth]

tongue spoke has come forth and been fully understood by the hearer even though not the natural tongue of the speaker . but to lump it all together as fake is faithless . (red herring alert - : its like when people say they prayed for healing and nothing happend so healing in jesus name is fake . its faithless . our lack of faith in God to keep his word does not make Gods promises untrue .it makes us faithless and so unable to please him until we repent .

Such tongue can only be accepted with proven incidents. Not spurious day to day claims.

 

[Righttruth]

in the realms of spiritual language.

"'Father, glorify Your name!” Then a voice came from heaven: “I have glorified it, and I will glorify it again.” The crowd standing there heard it and said it had thundered.” Others said that an angel had spoken to Him."

interesting huh . some heard what they thought was an angel others heard thunder .. same voice to the closed hearted ..thunder to the spiritually open .. words spoken . tongues simply cannot be comprehended by the natural mind ..and as long as you try to comprehend it from the natural mind you will not see it.

and ps - i have not much doubt that much of the charismatic movement and form ..is the source of your studies .

That is precisely the point. A few should understand what is spoken. Not requiring another agent to interpret on his own independent what was spoken.

 

[Righttruth]

Its only a definition of what language is within the confines of the natural world. in the spiritual it is not so.
Of Able God said .".his blood cries to me from the ground"..so the spilt blood of the innocent speaks a language God knows..
Any way..i think you see my point. i like how youve wethered my unprossional undisciplined argumentative style.. so i want to stop now.

Yes, God understands. But gibberish talk no one will understand!

 

[Righttruth]

Carefully constructed theology over the decades since the recent Asuza Street phenomenon has acted as a solid 'scientific' foundation to prove to Pentecostal church members that 'tongues' is a language. A huge weight of 'evidence' from theological colleges and pastors is stacked up against the individual church member to act as evidence of being filled with the Holy Spirit.

I was marginalised because I could not speak in tongues or pray in tongues.

I believe that the God gives the gift of tongues to some people and not to others - not because of sin but for reasons none of us really know.

Not the gift of speaking unknown tongue. That cannot be a gift at all!

 

[Alithis]

The pharisees would accuse Jesus of operating under the unction of demonic power when in actuality he was operating under the power of the Holy Spirit. If someone is speaking under the unction of the Holy Spirit, I would be very careful on what I said about them...knowing that I was not talking about them, but their underlying power.

they didn't listen either ... and let's just clarify this flood of inserts by the user Righttruth .-it is established that the content in this particular case comes from the viewpoint of a cessationist -which is why i'm not bothering to reply .

 

[Postvieww]

So speaking in unknown tongue is a private affair, not connected with the Holy Spirit

It can be used in private prayer but your statement “not connected with the Holy Spirit” is not correct and without scriptural support.

 

[Righttruth]

It can be used in private prayer but your statement “not connected with the Holy Spirit” is not correct and without scriptural support.

Scripture ended with the OT, and canon is man-made. What was specifically written to notorious Corinthian church of immature believers cannot be applied to mature Christians.

 

[Postvieww]

Scripture ended with the OT, and canon is man-made. What was specifically written to notorious Corinthian church of immature believers cannot be applied to mature Christians.

If the New Testament is of no value to you we are done here and I'll be praying for you.