DO BELIEVERS HAVE FREEWILL?

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I don’t know why so many Christians are so keen on saying they get to make choices completely independent of the sovereign, all knowing and all powerful God.

Who says that ?

The ones who are one with the son, and one with the Father, as the son and the Father are one,

do not do anything independent, let alone completely independent, of the Sovereign Almighty Yahweh.

Just as Jesus did not do anything independent (on His Own or Of Himself)...... He Always trusted, always obeyed, always relied on His Father Sovereign Creator.

 

[GaveMeJoy]

I do not believe that God controls everything. He can effect changes... but they come in the form of interventions.

I find these verses on the matter very interesting. Let me know what you think, and thanks for responding.


Ephesians 1:11

In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will




Isaiah 45:6-7

That people may know, from the rising of the sun and from the west, that there is none besides me; I am the Lord, and there is no other. I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the Lord, who does all these things.




Isaiah 14:24

The Lord of hosts has sworn: “As I have planned, so shall it be, and as I have purposed, so shall it stand




Daniel 4:35

All the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing, and he does according to his will among the host of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand or say to him, “What have you done?”



Matthew 10:29 ESV / 903 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful

Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? And not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Of course He can and does these things. I am not saying He cannot. I am just saying the vast majority of events occur as a matter of course of nature.

I find these verses on the matter very interesting. Let me know what you think, and thanks for responding.


Ephesians 1:11

In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will




Isaiah 45:6-7

That people may know, from the rising of the sun and from the west, that there is none besides me; I am the Lord, and there is no other. I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the Lord, who does all these things.




Isaiah 14:24

The Lord of hosts has sworn: “As I have planned, so shall it be, and as I have purposed, so shall it stand




Daniel 4:35

All the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing, and he does according to his will among the host of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand or say to him, “What have you done?”



Matthew 10:29 ESV / 903 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful

Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? And not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father.

 

[GaveMeJoy]

Of course He can and does these things. I am not saying He cannot. I am just saying the vast majority of events occur as a matter of course of nature.

I see, well I suppose that’s where we disagree. I believe God orchestrates nature, and is complete control of what happens. Thankfully, we have Romans 8:28 to tell us that no matter what happens God will work it all out for the good of those who serve him

 

[GaveMeJoy]

Who says that ?

The ones who are one with the son, and one with the Father, as the son and the Father are one,

do not do anything independent, let alone completely independent, of the Sovereign Almighty Yahweh.

Just as Jesus did not do anything independent (on His Own or Of Himself)...... He Always trusted, always obeyed, always relied on His Father Sovereign Creator.

You are correct. But soooo many Christians on this forum and in real life are very preoccupied with “free will” and they can’t stand to hear anyone say that God is actually in control. I think in my opinion, it comes from people naturally wanting things to be “fair” and if God doesn’t give everyone an equal chance to choose Jesus then it isn’t “fair” that they pay the penalty for their sin.

 

[Si_monfaith]

Of course we have freewill. God would not tell us we have choice if we didn't.

Controlling something is vastly different from allowing something. Do you control your child if you allow him to play in the yard? If he picks up a sharp stick and jabs his eye with it, was that you picking up the stick and hurting him? It would be if you were literally controlling him.

Of course we have freewill. God would not tell us we have choice if we didn't.

Can you make contrary choices for a particular decision under the same set of circumstances?

 

[Si_monfaith]

Of course He can and does these things. I am not saying He cannot. I am just saying the vast majority of events occur as a matter of course of nature.

I am just saying the vast majority of events occur as a matter of course of nature.

Do you mean to say nature has an arbitrary will to make choices?

 

[renniks]

Can you make contrary choices for a particular decision under the same set of circumstances?

Of course.

 

[renniks]

I find these verses on the matter very interesting. Let me know what you think, and thanks for responding.


Ephesians 1:11

In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will




Isaiah 45:6-7

That people may know, from the rising of the sun and from the west, that there is none besides me; I am the Lord, and there is no other. I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the Lord, who does all these things.




Isaiah 14:24

The Lord of hosts has sworn: “As I have planned, so shall it be, and as I have purposed, so shall it stand




Daniel 4:35

All the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing, and he does according to his will among the host of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand or say to him, “What have you done?”



Matthew 10:29 ESV / 903 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful

Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? And not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father.

None of these verses claim God meticulously controls everything. They merely state that God can do as he pleases.
The question then, is what pleases him.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Can you make contrary choices for a particular decision under the same set of circumstances?

Absolutely. People on this forum , world wide, in almost any group, often do - they often make choices that are on the wide path - i.e. leading to destruction , EVEN THOUGH it seems right !?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

None of these verses claim God meticulously controls everything. They merely state that God can do as he pleases.
The question then, is what pleases him.

Faith pleases Him, and without Faith (trusting and relying on Him ongoing, daily, in all things) it is impossible to please Him ever.

 

[renniks]

Absolutely. People on this forum , world wide, in almost any group, often do - they often make choices that are on the wide path - i.e. leading to destruction , EVEN THOUGH it seems right !?

What does it mean when you rate something optimistic?

 

[renniks]

Faith pleases Him, and without Faith (trusting and relying on Him ongoing, daily, in all things) it is impossible to please Him ever.

I meant in the sense of what kind of world was he pleased to create. If God is meticulously controlling everything, our faith is really only something that was implanted in us and we are just fancy robots.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I meant in the sense of what kind of world was he pleased to create. If God is meticulously controlling everything, our faith is really only something that was implanted in us and we are just fancy robots.

Better to be His than to continue belonging to the devil, eh?

 

[GaveMeJoy]

None of these verses claim God meticulously controls everything. They merely state that God can do as he pleases.
The question then, is what pleases him.

Ephesians 1:11

In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works>all things< according to the counsel of his will.

 

[Si_monfaith]

Of course.

If you can make contrary choices for a particular decision under the same set of conditions, is your will arbitrary with no reason to back up?

 

[Si_monfaith]

Absolutely. People on this forum , world wide, in almost any group, often do - they often make choices that are on the wide path - i.e. leading to destruction , EVEN THOUGH it seems right !?

If you can make contrary choices for a particular decision under the same set of circumstances, is your will arbitrary with no reason to back up?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

If you can make contrary choices for a particular decision under the same set of circumstances, is your will arbitrary with no reason to back up?

Doesn't matter.

 

[Si_monfaith]

Doesn't matter.

So you agree the human will makes arbitrary choices with no reason?

Do you also mean to say the human will does not need the whole set of circumstances to make any particular choice?

If yes, do you have a problem if one claims that by His sovereign will, God makes arbitrary choices regarding humans?

 

[Si_monfaith]

I meant in the sense of what kind of world was he pleased to create. If God is meticulously controlling everything, our faith is really only something that was implanted in us and we are just fancy robots.

If God is meticulously controlling everything, our faith is really only something that was implanted in us

So was it Jesus who began faith in you or you chose to produce faith by your arbitrary will?