• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.

DO BELIEVERS HAVE FREEWILL?

Discussion in 'Word of Faith' started by Si_monfaith, Jan 15, 2020 at 12:28 AM.

  1. Si_monfaith

    Si_monfaith Let God alone answer through us

    +173
    India
    Word of Faith
    Single
    If God has exhaustive foreknowledge of all that happens and will happen in our life, do we have freewill?

    If God foreknew many would refuse to believe in Jesus, why did He go ahead and create them?

    You may post your answers with biblical warrant.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2020 at 2:41 AM
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. Peter J Barban

    Peter J Barban Well-Known Member

    911
    +569
    Christian
    Married
    I was thinking about this recently. If God accurately knows what I will do in the future, then I am not free to do otherwise.

    No matter what I choose from moment to moment, God has already seen it from beginning to end. He knows that I cannot do anything else.

    So from my ignorant point of view, my will is free, but from God's omniscient point of view, my will is fixed.

    I don't know if that all true, but it seems possible.
     
  3. GaveMeJoy

    GaveMeJoy Member

    214
    +168
    United States
    Christian
    Divorced

    I think you can go a little farther than him knowing what you will choose. Who made you? Who created the world? Who orchestrates what happens in the world?

    God created us the way we are. Any decisions we make don’t come from nowhere, or from some place that is magically outside of God. He made us the way we are, we make decisions and have desires that flow from that. Sin entered the world and now we have that in us also, a combination of the way God made us and sin in the world drives our circumstances, and our circumstances and personality drive our choices.


    I’m not saying God is responsible for sin, but I am saying the creation does not act independently from the creator.


    This passage is pretty powerful.

    “Praise be to [God], who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will, to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. [...] In him we were also chosen having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will.”

    Ephesians 1:3-6,11 [NIV]
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  4. Aussie Pete

    Aussie Pete Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,672
    Australia
    Non-Denom
    Divorced
    God gave Adam and Eve free will Genesis 2:6. That has never been rescinded. Knowing what will happen does not mean that you are controlling an individual's choices. All the exhortations to Christians to obey God are of no use if the Christian has no free will. There are many instructions to choose to follow God - Joshua 24:15 for example.

    Your argument that God created those who refuse to believe is not correct. God created Adam and Eve. Man reproduces man (John 1:13). God's foreknowledge does not turn people into robots. God is not obliged to save anyone. Adam chose to disobey God's clear instruction and warning.
     
  5. GaveMeJoy

    GaveMeJoy Member

    214
    +168
    United States
    Christian
    Divorced
    Proverbs 16:4
    The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.


    Romans 9:11
    For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth

    Romans 9:15-16
    For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.


    For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will,
    Ephesians 1:4-5,11
     
  6. Si_monfaith

    Si_monfaith Let God alone answer through us

    +173
    India
    Word of Faith
    Single
    Do you say you don't believe in God's exhaustive foreknowledge?
     
  7. GaveMeJoy

    GaveMeJoy Member

    214
    +168
    United States
    Christian
    Divorced
    It’s more than foreknowledge IMO. He is sovereign. Nothing occurs in this world without his permission, and it’s all part of his will and plan.
     
  8. Mark Quayle

    Mark Quayle Well-Known Member Supporter

    +712
    United States
    Reformed
    Widowed
    Adam was not born in sin. We are.

    Knowing what will happen doesn't make God a victim of our choices. He knows because he causes. From our pov that looks like he only foreknows, but either way, cold logic leads to the fact that he causes, since foreknowing, and making us, still comes to causing. This is still a long way from making robots. We like think we are self-determining, in spite of all the influences and genetics and environment and our past we have gone through or are in, but as soon as you mentally put God in charge all that, we have a problem with it???
     
  9. Aussie Pete

    Aussie Pete Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,672
    Australia
    Non-Denom
    Divorced
    I'm beginning to wonder just how many people here know what free will is. We need a definition before anyone discusses this issue again. Either we are robots or we have free will. That our will is influenced and controlled and manipulated by our own nature and by outside forces make no difference. God gave Adam free will. God is not responsible for our choices. If He were, He would be complicit in our sin.
     
  10. Aussie Pete

    Aussie Pete Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,672
    Australia
    Non-Denom
    Divorced
    Foreknowledge has nothing to do with free will. If I drive at 250 kph down a suburban street, a catastrophe will happen. That knowledge has nothing to do with the "accident" I'm bound to have.
     
  11. Aussie Pete

    Aussie Pete Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,672
    Australia
    Non-Denom
    Divorced
    God's wisdom knows how to bring about His plan and purpose while respecting the free will of man. Satan is the one who violates the will of man, not God. Even then, man is responsible for his choices. "The devil made me do it" won't wash on judgement day.
    Our will follows our desires. Get the desires right and the will activates to bring that desire to pass. The problem the unbeliever has is that all his desires are contrary to God's way. The believer has an inner desire from God that he should choose continually. The problem is that there conflicting desires from self and the world system. The desire he follows governs the spiritual growth that he experiences or the life of failure and defeat that is all too common.
     
  12. Si_monfaith

    Si_monfaith Let God alone answer through us

    +173
    India
    Word of Faith
    Single
    Might happen or will happen? So you deny God's definitive foreknowledge for a foreknowledge of possibilities?
     
  13. GaveMeJoy

    GaveMeJoy Member

    214
    +168
    United States
    Christian
    Divorced
    I agree with the above portions. Romans 3, all unbelievers are dead in sin.

    We are the creation and God is sovereign. While there is an element of our own will, it can’t be free of its creator and the sovereign God. There is nothing that happens in the universe that God doesn’t allow. The fact that he allows it means he is in control.
     
  14. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

    +5,303
    Christian
    Single
    Will you first, please answer those questions with the biblical warrant for asking them?
     
  15. Si_monfaith

    Si_monfaith Let God alone answer through us

    +173
    India
    Word of Faith
    Single
    If you know you may answer.
     
  16. Aussie Pete

    Aussie Pete Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,672
    Australia
    Non-Denom
    Divorced
    Define "free". According to some definitions, God does not have free will. For example, He cannot lie.
     
  17. Aussie Pete

    Aussie Pete Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,672
    Australia
    Non-Denom
    Divorced
    You have a wonderful way of putting words in my mouth. If I could make sense of your response, I'd answer.
     
  18. Peter J Barban

    Peter J Barban Well-Known Member

    911
    +569
    Christian
    Married
    Someone asked for definitions-- Here is Wikipedia

    ""The biblical ground for free will lies in the fall into sin by Adam and Eve that occurred in their "willfully chosen" disobedience to God.[11]

    "Freedom" and "free will" can be treated as one because the two terms are commonly used as synonyms.[12] However, there are widespread disagreements in definitions of the two terms.[13] Because of these disagreements, Mortimer Adler found that a delineation of three kinds of freedom is necessary for clarity on the subject, as follows:

    (1) Circumstantial freedom is "freedom from coercion or restraint" that prevents acting as one wills.[14]

    • In the Bible, circumstantial freedom was given to the Israelites in The Exodus from slavery in Egypt.[15]
    (2) Natural freedom (a.k.a. volitional freedom) is freedom to determine one's own "decisions or plans." Natural freedom is inherent in all people, in all circumstances, and "without regard to any state of mind or character which they may or may not acquire in the course of their lives."[16]

    • The Bible, paralleling Adler, views all humanity as naturally possessing the "free choice of the will."[17] If "free will" is taken to mean unconstrained and voluntary choice, the Bible assumes that all people, unregenerate and regenerate, possess it.[18] For examples, "free will" is taught in Matthew 23:37 and Revelation 22:17.[19][clarification needed]
    (3) Acquired freedom is freedom "to live as [one] ought to live," a freedom that requires a transformation whereby a person acquires a righteous, holy, healthy, etc. "state of mind or character."[20]

    • The Bible testifies to the need for acquired freedom because no one "is free for obedience and faith till he is freed from sin's dominion." People possess natural freedom but their "voluntary choices" serve sin until they acquire freedom from "sin's dominion." The New Bible Dictionary denotes this acquired freedom for "obedience and faith" as "free will" in a theological sense.[18] Therefore, in biblical thinking, an acquired freedom from being "enslaved to sin" is needed "to live up to Jesus' commandments to love God and love neighbor."[21]
    • Jesus told his hearers that they needed to be made "free indeed" (John 8:36). "Free indeed [ontós]" means "truly free" or "really free," as it is in some translations.[22] Being made "free indeed" means freedom from "bondage to sin."[23] This acquired freedom is "freedom to serve the Lord."[24] Being "free indeed" (i.e., true freedom) comes by "God's changing our nature" to free us from being "slaves to sin." and endowing us with "the freedom to choose to be righteous."
     
  19. SavedByGrace3

    SavedByGrace3 Whoever calls on the name of Jesus will be saved Supporter

    +1,187
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Others
    Never understood that. Why would knowing what a person was going to do deny them free will?
     
  20. Si_monfaith

    Si_monfaith Let God alone answer through us

    +173
    India
    Word of Faith
    Single
    Catastrophe will or might happen?

    Is God's foreknowledge definitive or foreknows only the possibilities?
     
Loading...