DNC opting to not hold primary debates

[ThatRobGuy]

Elon Musk rips DNC for not holding primary debates, coronating Biden: 'Too much back room dealing'

Elon Musk slammed the Democratic National Committee for its plans to do without debates between President Biden and other Democratic Party presidential candidates

www.foxnews.com

Musk’s response came after prominent Twitter users, including progressives, grumbled over the DNC’s commitment to supporting the Biden 2024 re-election, to the point of not planning primary debates, even though Marianne Williamson and Robert F. Kennedy Jr. have announced their candidacies.

In addition to Williamson and others blasting the decision, "The Young Turks" host and far-left commentator Cenk Uygur called out the move, claiming that the DNC is making everyone in the party "fall in line" behind Biden.

Exclusive: Robert F. Kennedy Jr. launches unlikely presidential bid backed by 14% of Biden voters

The findings underscore President Joe Biden's potential vulnerability to a more mainstream opponent for the Democratic nomination.

www.usatoday.com

Robert F. Kennedy Jr. launches his unlikely bid for the Democratic presidential nomination Wednesday with the support of 14% of voters who backed President Joe Biden in 2020, an exclusive USA TODAY/Suffolk University Poll finds.

That is surprising strength for a candidate who has a famous political name but is now known mostly as the champion of a debunked conspiracy theory blaming childhood vaccines for autism.

In the survey taken Saturday through Tuesday, only 67% of Biden's 2020 supporters said they would support him for the Democratic nomination over his current challengers. Kennedy stands at 14%, and self-help author Marianne Williamson, a quixotic candidate for the nomination last time, is at 5%. Another 13% are undecided.

I tried to find a more "neutral" source than Fox News...they're not one I like to link very often just because that outlet comes with baggage (obviously), but couldn't find any moderate sources talking about it.

 

[Occams Barber]

Elon Musk rips DNC for not holding primary debates, coronating Biden: 'Too much back room dealing'

Elon Musk slammed the Democratic National Committee for its plans to do without debates between President Biden and other Democratic Party presidential candidates

www.foxnews.com

Musk’s response came after prominent Twitter users, including progressives, grumbled over the DNC’s commitment to supporting the Biden 2024 re-election, to the point of not planning primary debates, even though Marianne Williamson and Robert F. Kennedy Jr. have announced their candidacies.

In addition to Williamson and others blasting the decision, "The Young Turks" host and far-left commentator Cenk Uygur called out the move, claiming that the DNC is making everyone in the party "fall in line" behind Biden.
View attachment 331845

Exclusive: Robert F. Kennedy Jr. launches unlikely presidential bid backed by 14% of Biden voters

The findings underscore President Joe Biden's potential vulnerability to a more mainstream opponent for the Democratic nomination.

www.usatoday.com

Robert F. Kennedy Jr. launches his unlikely bid for the Democratic presidential nomination Wednesday with the support of 14% of voters who backed President Joe Biden in 2020, an exclusive USA TODAY/Suffolk University Poll finds.

That is surprising strength for a candidate who has a famous political name but is now known mostly as the champion of a debunked conspiracy theory blaming childhood vaccines for autism.

In the survey taken Saturday through Tuesday, only 67% of Biden's 2020 supporters said they would support him for the Democratic nomination over his current challengers. Kennedy stands at 14%, and self-help author Marianne Williamson, a quixotic candidate for the nomination last time, is at 5%. Another 13% are undecided.

I tried to find a more "neutral" source than Fox News...they're not one I like to link very often just because that outlet comes with baggage (obviously), but couldn't find any moderate sources talking about it.

As a general observation - Why should anyone report what Musk thinks? Playing with rockets and messing up social media hardly qualifies him as a political pundit.

OB

 

[PloverWing]

It's unusual for an incumbent president not to receive the endorsement of their own party, and Kennedy and Williamson are pretty off-the-wall candidates. I don't think it's worthwhile to have a debate for the Democratic primary. Kennedy and Williamson have the whole Internet if they want to make their positions known.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

As a general observation - Why should anyone report what Musk thinks? Playing with rockets and messing up social media hardly qualifies him as a political pundit.

OB

As noted, I would've liked to have found another source covering the topic, but we get what we get.

Doesn't invalidate the premise...

You'd think the DNC would have no problem putting an incumbent up against a couple of alternative medicine quacks...it should be a slam dunk.

The fact that RFK Jr. and Williamson are polling as high as they are against their incumbent should raise some eyebrows.

The fact that 14% of 2020 Biden voters support RFK Jr. (despite the general attitudes towards anti-vaxxers by the Democratic establishment) is rather surprising.

 

[Occams Barber]

As noted, I would've liked to have round another source covering the topic, but we get what we get.

Doesn't invalidate the premise...

You'd think the DNC would have no problem putting an incumbent up against a couple of alternative medicine quacks...it should be a slam dunk.

The fact that RFK Jr. and Williamson are polling as high as they are against their incumbent should raise some eyebrows.

The fact that 14% of 2020 Biden voters support RFK Jr. (despite the general attitudes towards anti-vaxxers by the Democratic establishment) is rather surprising.

I'm not arguing the premise - just the poor reporting.

OB

 

[essentialsaltes]

Although your guy, Bill Weld, did debate Joe Walsh and Mark Sanford, they were not official GOP events.

2020 Republican Party presidential debates​

The Republican National Committee (RNC) did not schedule any official RNC-sanctioned primary debates, and incumbent President Donald Trump stated that he would not debate any primary challenger.

Anybody know who the last sitting president was who debated a primary challenger? (I don't).

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I'm not arguing the premise - just the poor reporting.

OB

I can understand the reporting leaving something to be desired...

But in the same turn, the fact that a tech billionaire has an opinion that people cling to based on extraneous isn't anything unique. A lot of people on the left like to look to Bill Gates as a quasi "thought leader" on certain topics (despite him not being an official expert on those topics), and despite his story being somewhat similar to Musk's - that being "guy who made his fortune from capitalizing off of someone else's invention/ideas"

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Although your guy, Bill Weld, did debate Joe Walsh and Mark Sanford, they were not official GOP events.

2020 Republican Party presidential debates​

The Republican National Committee (RNC) did not schedule any official RNC-sanctioned primary debates, and incumbent President Donald Trump stated that he would not debate any primary challenger.

Anybody know who the last sitting president was who debated a primary challenger? (I don't).

Could Trump Lose the Republican Nomination? Here's the History of Primary Challenges to Incumbent Presidents

An incumbent President has never lost a primary nomination in modern U.S. history

time.com

And I do like Bill Weld, I've sung his praises for quite a while

And while it may not be anything particularly amazing, I have had a 5 minute conversation with the guy. I hit him up on Facebook messenger, and much to my surprise, he actually did a Facebook video call with me.

May seem silly, but not everyone can say they had a personalized interaction with a former governor.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Anybody know who the last sitting president was who debated a primary challenger? (I don't).

For all I can tell, it may never have happened. Although Ted Kennedy won some primary states against incumbent Jimmy Carter in 1980, and Reagan won some states against Ford in 1976, neither case involved intraparty debates.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

For all I can tell, it may never have happened. Although Ted Kennedy won some primary states against incumbent Jimmy Carter in 1980, and Reagan won some states against Ford in 1976, neither case involved interparty debates.

Seems like the public sentiments around that may be changing.

Some prominent players on both sides are clamoring for it.

ChatGPT's answer:

Yes, it is possible for an incumbent president to participate in primary debates. While it is not a common occurrence, there have been instances in which an incumbent president has faced challengers from within their own party during primary elections and engaged in debates with them.

One notable example occurred in 1980 when President Jimmy Carter, a Democrat, faced a primary challenge from Senator Ted Kennedy. Carter and Kennedy participated in a series of primary debates leading up to the Democratic National Convention. These debates allowed Kennedy to highlight policy differences and criticize Carter's presidency, although Carter ultimately secured the party's nomination for the general election.

Another example is the 1992 Republican primaries when President George H.W. Bush faced a challenge from conservative commentator Pat Buchanan. Bush and Buchanan engaged in debates during the primary season, where Buchanan criticized Bush's policies and presented an alternative vision for the party.

While incumbent presidents generally enjoy a strong advantage in their party's primary, these debates provide an opportunity for challengers to make their case, express differing viewpoints, and potentially influence the party's direction.

 

[PloverWing]

ChatGPT's answer:

I remember those challenges during the primaries, but I don't remember those debates. Does anyone remember these debates, or have links to newspaper articles about them? ChatGPT sometimes hallucinates.

 

[rambot]

I agree that good POLICY debates are super important but if intra party debates turn into character debates, that will NOT benefit anyone.

 

[DaisyDay]

I agree that good POLICY debates are super important but if intra party debates turn into character debates, that will NOT benefit anyone.

It benefits the opposing party for picking up effective talking points for the general presidential debates and campaigns.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Seems like the public sentiments around that may be changing.

Some prominent players on both sides are clamoring for it.

I wouldn't call Nina Turner "prominent". She is a far-left, former local elected who lost a Congressional bid.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I wouldn't call Nina Turner "prominent". She is a far-left, former local elected who lost a Congressional bid.

I think her (and Cenk, who also commented on it) - and the Young Turks in general - have a pretty substantial progressive following. Plus she was the chair for Bernie Sanders' presidential campaign and had endorsements from the likes of Bill Clinton for one of her campaign attempts.

So she's certainly not a "nobody" in the political realm.

 

[durangodawood]

Im amenable to written debates. Like the candidates stand there and get 5 min to write their answer to each question, in silence, at their podiums. A neutral actor reads the answers to the audience..

 

[RocksInMyHead]

So she's certainly not a "nobody" in the political realm.

Fair, but the point is that it's not exactly accurate to characterize calls from the far left (which has only ever tolerated Biden, at best) for primary debates as "changing public sentiments". There's no change in their opinions - they don't want Biden to be the Democratic candidate in 2024, and they never did. Honestly, I think that's true of a lot of Democrats - there was a lot of talk in the leadup to the 2020 election about how he would/should step aside in 2024 and let someone else run.

Wanting primary debates is just an outgrowth of that position - if he's not going to step aside voluntarily, then others should be given the opportunity to make their cases. On the flipside though, the DNC's position of not wanting to have primary debates is also consistent, given their rarity for incumbents.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Im amenable to written debates. Like the candidates stand there and get 5 min to write their answer to each question, in silence, at their podiums. A neutral actor reads the answers to the audience..

I think there's some value in being able to assess how people think on their feet, their body language, charisma, and how they handle themselves "on the fly" so to speak.

Part of the job of the president will be something of a negotiator (both domestically and internationally), and in some ways, a salesman.

I'd use Neil DeGrasse Tyson or Bill Nye as examples from another realm, are there better astrophysicists and engineers than them out there in terms of raw knowledge and intellect? Probably...but they have a certain way of being able to communicate that keeps peoples' interest and that can be very persuasive and can be credited with getting more people interested in science than some backroom bookworm who may technically have a higher IQ than them.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Fair, but the point is that it's not exactly accurate to characterize calls from the far left (which has only ever tolerated Biden, at best) for primary debates as "changing public sentiments". There's no change in their opinions - they don't want Biden to be the Democratic candidate in 2024, and they never did. Honestly, I think that's true of a lot of Democrats - there was a lot of talk in the leadup to the 2020 election about how he would/should step aside in 2024 and let someone else run.

Wanting primary debates is just an outgrowth of that position - if he's not going to step aside voluntarily, then others should be given the opportunity to make their cases. On the flipside though, the DNC's position of not wanting to have primary debates is also consistent, given their rarity for incumbents.

Progressives' attitudes toward Biden may not have changed, but I think that their group has likely grown in size in the past 4-5 years.

So I would suggest that is reflective of a changing public sentiment.

https://www.npr.org/2021/09/13/1035971261/more-and-more-democrats-embrace-the-progressive-label-heres-why

For Progressive Democrats, New Momentum Clashes With Old Debates

A push and pull between progressive and moderate Democrats is shaping the party’s policies and politics.

www.nytimes.com

 

[durangodawood]

I think there's some value in being able to assess how people think on their feet, their body language, charisma, and how they handle themselves "on the fly" so to speak.

Part of the job of the president will be something of a negotiator (both domestically and internationally), and in some ways, a salesman.

I'd use Neil DeGrasse Tyson or Bill Nye as examples from another realm, are there better astrophysicists and engineers than them out there in terms of raw knowledge and intellect? Probably...but they have a certain way of being able to communicate that keeps peoples' interest and that can be very persuasive and can be credited with getting more people interested in science than some backroom bookworm who may technically have a higher IQ than them.

That much is true. We did get to see what a complete jerk and goon Trump is, lurching and leering behind Hil or nonstop talking over Biden. But we knew that already.

In their current devolved state, I dont think the upside of debates overcomes the downside.