DNC opting to not hold primary debates

[RocksInMyHead]

Progressives' attitudes toward Biden may not have changed, but I think that their group has likely grown in size in the past 4-5 years.

So I would suggest that is reflective of a changing public sentiment.

https://www.npr.org/2021/09/13/1035971261/more-and-more-democrats-embrace-the-progressive-label-heres-why

For Progressive Democrats, New Momentum Clashes With Old Debates (Published 2023)

A push and pull between progressive and moderate Democrats is shaping the party’s policies and politics.

www.nytimes.com

Possibly, though his approval ratings don't really reflect that. He's at ~80% approval among Democrats, which is roughly on par with Obama and Clinton at the same point in their presidencies.

What does the country think of Biden?

Keeping tabs on U.S. President Biden’s approval ratings and American’s top issues

www.reuters.com

Biden is winning over more Democrats than Obama, Clinton

Polls show that Joe Biden enjoys higher job grades from Democrats than the past two Democratic presidents during the same point in their presidencies.

www.newsweek.com

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Possibly, though his approval ratings don't really reflect that. He's at ~80% approval among Democrats, which is roughly on par with Obama and Clinton at the same point in their presidencies.

What does the country think of Biden?

Keeping tabs on U.S. President Biden’s approval ratings and American’s top issues

www.reuters.com

Biden is winning over more Democrats than Obama, Clinton

Polls show that Joe Biden enjoys higher job grades from Democrats than the past two Democratic presidents during the same point in their presidencies.

www.newsweek.com

I wonder how much of that is skewed by the fact that Democrats absolutely hated his predecessor? (which makes him seem pretty good in their eyes in comparison)

Although, there's is a subtle difference between "approves of the jobs someone's doing" and "wants them to be president for another term", while there's obviously overlap,, the overlap isn't as high as I'm sure he'd like it to be.

Another recent Associated Press/NORC poll:
The poll, conducted April 13-17 among 1,230 U.S. adults, found only 26% of respondents would like to see Biden run again in 2024, versus 73% who said he shouldn't. That includes 47% of Democrats, while 52% of Democrats do not want him to run.

The vast majority of Democrats—81%—say they’re likely to support Biden in a general election if he does run, however, with 41% saying they would “definitely” vote for him and 40% saying they “probably” would.

If 52% of democrats (despite still saying they'd likely vote for him again if he runs) say they don't want him to run again, that's not the kind of enthusiasm that gets people out to the polls for election day in droves. That's the kind of tepid support that will get someone out on election day only if they have nothing better to do that day.

 

[PloverWing]

That's the kind of tepid support that will get someone out on election day only if they have nothing better to do that day.

Maybe. If so, it's unfortunate. Politics is the art of working with other people to accomplish what's possible, even if it isn't everything you wanted. I've voted for any number of candidates over the years who weren't my favorite, but they were good enough, the best of the actually-available options, and they planned to accomplish some of what I wanted if they were elected.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I don't think it's worthwhile to have a debate for the Democratic primary.

Why not?

 

[PloverWing]

Why not?

The purpose of the debate would be to help the Democratic party pick its candidate. Since there is an incumbent, the party is almost certainly going to choose the incumbent. I think a primary debate would be a waste of everyone's time.

The general election is another matter. A debate between the Democratic and Republican nominees (and others, if a strong third-party candidate emerges) is entirely appropriate.

 

[Nithavela]

Im amenable to written debates. Like the candidates stand there and get 5 min to write their answer to each question, in silence, at their podiums. A neutral actor reads the answers to the audience..

How would you make this work, considering the average attention span of the average person?

What good is a debate that nobody pays attention to?

 

[durangodawood]

How would you make this work, considering the average attention span of the average person?

What good is a debate that nobody pays attention to?

Its supposed to be tedious and boring. Thats the point.

 

[chevyontheriver]

It's unusual for an incumbent president not to receive the endorsement of their own party, and Kennedy and Williamson are pretty off-the-wall candidates. I don't think it's worthwhile to have a debate for the Democratic primary. Kennedy and Williamson have the whole Internet if they want to make their positions known.

Obviously Biden is the presumptive candidate and has zero interest in even acknowledging challengers exist. If the challengers want, they can hold their own debate and have an empty chair for Biden. It might just work. Biden has vulnerabilities they can exploit.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

As a general observation - Why should anyone report what Musk thinks? Playing with rockets and messing up social media hardly qualifies him as a political pundit.

OB

You mean playing with rockets and rescuing one social media outlet from autocrats who were censoring disparate views? Because that was happening. Government was working directly with social media to silence views it didn't like, especially during the pandemic, a clear First Amendment violation if one ever existed. It was exposed. Nothing happened...yet.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Progressives' attitudes toward Biden may not have changed, but I think that their group has likely grown in size in the past 4-5 years.

So I would suggest that is reflective of a changing public sentiment.

https://www.npr.org/2021/09/13/1035971261/more-and-more-democrats-embrace-the-progressive-label-heres-why

For Progressive Democrats, New Momentum Clashes With Old Debates (Published 2023)

A push and pull between progressive and moderate Democrats is shaping the party’s policies and politics.

www.nytimes.com

I don't know. I think the pendulum is stopping or starting to reverse. A new poll from Gallup found that 38% of Americans say they are conservative or very conservative on social issues – a nearly 30% increase since 2021. It’s the highest percentage claiming to be socially conservative since 2012.

Social Conservatism in U.S. Highest in About a Decade

Thirty-eight percent of Americans say they are conservative on social issues, the highest Gallup has measured since 2012.

news.gallup.com

 

[USincognito]

You mean playing with rockets and rescuing one social media outlet from autocrats who were censoring disparate views? Because that was happening.

Now it's run by a single autocrat who has been censoring some views while encouraging a steep rise in racism, sexism and anti-Semitism.

Government was working directly with social media to silence views it didn't like, especially during the pandemic, a clear First Amendment violation if one ever existed. It was exposed. Nothing happened...yet.

Taibi's so-called Twitter files showed that Donald's administration worked with Twitter and other social media outlets to cut back on mis and disinformation regarding the pandemic. But he also demanded that Twitter take down things that hurt his feelings, like when Chrissy Teagan insulted him. They also took down nude photos of Hunter with which a whole bunch of conservatives seem inordinately fascinated.

Ironically Taibi left Twitter after the aforementioned autocrat started censoring links to Substack.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I wonder how much of that is skewed by the fact that Democrats absolutely hated his predecessor? (which makes him seem pretty good in their eyes in comparison)

Although, there's is a subtle difference between "approves of the jobs someone's doing" and "wants them to be president for another term", while there's obviously overlap,, the overlap isn't as high as I'm sure he'd like it to be.

Another recent Associated Press/NORC poll:
The poll, conducted April 13-17 among 1,230 U.S. adults, found only 26% of respondents would like to see Biden run again in 2024, versus 73% who said he shouldn't. That includes 47% of Democrats, while 52% of Democrats do not want him to run.

The vast majority of Democrats—81%—say they’re likely to support Biden in a general election if he does run, however, with 41% saying they would “definitely” vote for him and 40% saying they “probably” would.

If 52% of democrats (despite still saying they'd likely vote for him again if he runs) say they don't want him to run again, that's not the kind of enthusiasm that gets people out to the polls for election day in droves. That's the kind of tepid support that will get someone out on election day only if they have nothing better to do that day.

It's probably worth pointing out how badly polling has been as a predictor of elections lately.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Now it's run by a single autocrat who has been censoring some views while encouraging a steep rise in racism, sexism and anti-Semitism.

I can't say I've noticed any rise in racism, sexism, or antisemitism.

Taibi's so-called Twitter files showed that Donald's administration worked with Twitter and other social media outlets to cut back on mis and disinformation regarding the pandemic.

I recall it showing that the FBI censored information on covid. Information like "it came from a lab" for example. I don't recall any evidence this was done under Trump directions.

But he also demanded that Twitter take down things that hurt his feelings, like when Chrissy Teagan insulted him.

True. Imagine the idea that Chrissy Teagan would be subject to the same rules as everyone else.

They also took down nude photos of Hunter with which a whole bunch of conservatives seem inordinately fascinated.

Wasn't aware they were there.

Ironically Taibi left Twitter after the aforementioned autocrat started censoring links to Substack.

About?

 

[Ana the Ist]

The purpose of the debate would be to help the Democratic party pick its candidate. Since there is an incumbent, the party is almost certainly going to choose the incumbent. I think a primary debate would be a waste of everyone's time.

Nobody really wants the incumbent. He's been dodging corruption rumors, has us in an unpopular war, and can't find the X on the ground where he needs to stand even if he has a handler.

There's not going to be a debate because Biden can't hold it together long enough for the format.

The general election is another matter. A debate between the Democratic and Republican nominees (and others, if a strong third-party candidate emerges) is entirely appropriate.

That won't happen either.

 

[PloverWing]

Nobody really wants the incumbent.

If you don't want him, don't vote for him.

Would a Biden-Williamson-Kennedy debate really help you make up your mind about whom to vote for in the Democratic primary?

 

[Ana the Ist]

If you don't want him, don't vote for him.

Would a Biden-Williamson-Kennedy debate really help you make up your mind about whom to vote for in the Democratic primary?

It would be the Democratic thing to do....offer a choice to the voter.

And thanks but it was pretty clear by the end of 2021, I wasn't voting for Biden.

 

[SimplyMe]

It would be the Democratic thing to do....offer a choice to the voter.

And thanks but it was pretty clear by the end of 2021, I wasn't voting for Biden.

I'll agree that they should have them. Of course, I said the same thing when the RNC basically cancelled the Republican primaries in 2020. The fact remains, if they don't have the debates it is essentially following tradition -- as it seems the only primary debates with a sitting president, at least in the last 50 years, have happened in ChatGPT's imagination (much like the fake court cases it created which caused a lawyer to be sanctioned).

 

[Ana the Ist]

I'll agree that they should have them. Of course, I said the same thing when the RNC basically cancelled the Republican primaries in 2020.

Agreed....also wrong. I don't recall the other Republican candidates at all.

The fact remains, if they don't have the debates it is essentially following tradition -- as it seems the only primary debates with a sitting president, at least in the last 50 years, have happened in ChatGPT's imagination (much like the fake court cases it created which caused a lawyer to be sanctioned).

I think we can form analogies without any reference to ChatGPT or other language learning AI models.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Ultimately, people don't vote for candidates come election time anyway. They vote against their most hated party, specifically.

Our democratic voting system is based largely on undermining-type principles. An inverted democratic process, that reflects our defensive nature.

...At least, that's how most voters act. So Biden doesn't actually need to speak as an incumbent, he only needs to maintain a pulse, and remain a "democrat".

 

[Landon Caeli]

What does it take to get voters out of a defensive mindset, and into a pro-active state of mind?

I don't even know for sure if that's a good idea.

...Maybe in another 1000 years.