Divorce and remarriage

[Dave-W]

Did I say that ? fornication supplies the population quite well

No, you did not say that.

But we are to assume that we are New Covenant believers here and obey God's morality rules.
No sex outside of marriage PERIOD.

 

[Tull]

But we are to assume that we are New Covenant believers here and obey God's morality rules.
No sex outside of marriage PERIOD.

You must be new here

 

[Elihoenai]

I think it is important that we remember Yeshua said "in the beginning it was not so, but for the hardness of heart" rules have changed. Here we are 2000 years later and things have not improved. So let's be more merciful in our sinful world to those who have fallen, forgiveness to start a new life without the sigma of the past. A person can not move forward unless they are forgiven to the point that it is as if they never had sinned in the first place. Let us not have a "hardness of heart" in this matter, while we may want and know the original plan God had for us in union, it is not something to be offered "giving in marriage" in heaven, because of sin. That is one privilege that is going to be taken away.

Our posts are for the Elect only, otherwise you are telling the Heathen what they want to hear.


Malachi 3:4-6 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

4 And sweet to Jehovah hath been the present of Judah and Jerusalem, As in days of old, and as in former years.

5 And I have drawn near to you for judgment, And I have been a witness, Making haste against sorcerers, And against adulterers, And against swearers to a falsehood, And against oppressors of the hire of an hireling, Of a widow, and of a fatherless one, And those turning aside a sojourner, And who fear Me not, said Jehovah of Hosts.

6 For I [am] Jehovah, I have not changed, And ye, the sons of Jacob, Ye have not been consumed.



Matthew 15:24 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

24 and he answering said, `I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.'

 

[Dave-W]

"No sex outside of marriage PERIOD."
You must be new here

Why? Because I believe in enforcing biblical morality?

 

[visionary]

Why? Because I believe in enforcing biblical morality?

Can biblical morality be enforced?

 

[Dave-W]

Can biblical morality be enforced?

100%? probably not.

But if you make the penalties severe enough you will get a high degree of compliance.

 

[visionary]

100%? probably not.

But if you make the penalties severe enough you will get a high degree of compliance.

Is that the type of compliance God wants?

 

[Dave-W]

Is that the type of compliance God wants?

Not really. He wants obedience from the heart.

 

[visionary]

Not really. He wants obedience from the heart.

Exactly. As with all sin, they can be forgiven, in the forgiven, there must be a fresh start, and you can not have a fresh start if you must carry the burden of the past.

When a person lies, receives forgiveness after repenting, they are to be treated as if they never sinned. I am not saying this is easy, because trust has to earned. Once broken, trust is tentatively given as time shows repentance has worked on the heart to truly live a new life.

It should be the same way with divorce, whatever sins caused the tear in the fabric of the marriage, if the person is truly repentant, and they can not remarry their first love, then they are to go on with their new life. Again trust has to be earned that they are truly new creatures in Yeshua This new person should be treated like they never failed at marriage, because how else are they going to have a new life?

 

[Dave-W]

Visionary: I was responding to Tull's comment that no one should ever get married. Fine. But if ALL people are TRULY trying to obey God from their hearts in sexual mores, then it would lead to the extinction of the human species.

 

[visionary]

Visionary: I was responding to Tull's comment that no one should ever get married. Fine. But if ALL people are TRULY trying to obey God from their hearts in sexual mores, then it would lead to the extinction of the human species.

I understand who you are replying too... It doesn't change the fact that Tull's understanding is without mercy and yes it is not beneficial.

 

[r4.h]

It seems alot of Christians erroneously believe singleness is Gods preferred state so as to serve Him without distraction, in that case He is annulling His comand to go forth and fill the earth. It also forgets that mother that raises godly children is not second rate, but is equally serving God. Why is that the majority of great preachers was married with children. Finney got married and went straight back to revival work, having no honeymon, and after 3 mths had to send for his new bride as the work was not abating. What about Enoch also, who although married with children walked so close to God he was taken to heaven without death. No disrespect but can Paul top that?
Paul only wished singleness for there was a great persecution coming that all would need to flee. Jesus said pray those would be without children to carry.
Back to topic, If all remarriage is perpetual adultery, then all the woman divorced under Moses regulation of divorce went to hell because of hard hearted husbands and a prophet that couldnt say no to them. Not only that our Lord acknowledged that wrongly divorced woman would be forced to commit adultery by their husbands, are we to believe Jesus condemn them for something forced upon them.
Is a raped woman during genocidal raids guilty of anything ?

 

[visionary]

It seems alot of Christians erroneously believe singleness is Gods preferred state so as to serve Him without distraction, in that case He is annulling His comand to go forth and fill the earth. It also forgets that mother that raises godly children is not second rate, but is equally serving God. Why is that the majority of great preachers was married with children. Finney got married and went straight back to revival work, having no honeymon, and after 3 mths had to send for his new bride as the work was not abating. What about Enoch also, who although married with children walked so close to God he was taken to heaven without death. No disrespect but can Paul top that?
Paul only wished singleness for there was a great persecution coming that all would need to flee. Jesus said pray those would be without children to carry.
Back to topic, If all remarriage is perpetual adultery, then all the woman divorced under Moses regulation of divorce went to hell because of hard hearted husbands and a prophet that couldnt say no to them. Not only that our Lord acknowledged that wrongly divorced woman would be forced to commit adultery by their husbands, are we to believe Jesus condemn them for something forced upon them.
Is a raped woman during genocidal raids guilty of anything ?

This issue has to be dealt with in the spirit of the law and not by the letter of the law. God is the Lord of Love and wants happiness in their walk with Him. He has put into our hearts a longing to be loved and to love. Kind of hard, if the "law" stands against that.

 

[Open Heart]

It seems alot of Christians erroneously believe singleness is Gods preferred state so as to serve Him without distraction, in that case He is annulling His comand to go forth and fill the earth.

The earth was already full when Paul wrote that it would be better to remain single. The earth is now overflowing.

 

[r4.h]

The earth was already full when Paul wrote that it would be better to remain single. The earth is now overflowing.

Its not full or else the Lord wouldve returned before that. Besides who would you rather have many children, Christians or people of other faiths? Raising godly children does more to populating heaven than some single Christians do in a lifetime. Have you read of Susannah Wesley?

 

[r4.h]

What did Messiah say about marrying a divorced woman? Not what Paul said.....but our Messiah.

Actually Paul only restated what Jesus had already said to his disciples, except where he specifies that it is his counsel under the Holy Spirit, just as Moses did when regulating remarriage in Duet 24: 1-4.

You may already know the following, but im prempting possible questions from other readers,about Moses own counsel without specific commandment from God.

When God was to wipe out the rebellious Israelites, and Moses stepped in saying the other nations would say He wasn`t God enough to save them. God then said "You deal with them then" (Paraprased by me)
Moses did not give divorce, he only regulated remarriage lest the land be polluted and God destroy them. If the divorced woman was to go back and forth in marriages, there would much emotional baggage and mistrust (hence the pronouncement "defiled"), so as to create an unstable and hostile generation. This we see first hand today with children of divorce and remarriages.

Think this far fetched? read why God took Joseph and his family to Egypt where they as shepherds would be disdained by the Egyptians and live seperatley in Goshen. Jacobs sons were being corrupted by the pagans around them and were in danger of Gods wrath beyond remedy. Ruben i think slept with his fathers concubine and the others were violent and vengeful.

 

[Open Heart]

Its not full or else the Lord wouldve returned before that. Besides who would you rather have many children, Christians or people of other faiths? Raising godly children does more to populating heaven than some single Christians do in a lifetime. Have you read of Susannah Wesley?

You are wrong, since the world is obviously overflowing and the Lord has not yet returned. The Lord has never sheltered us from the consequences of our own actions.

Actually I'd rather intelligent and empathic people have more children, so that the human race becomes better able to care for itself. Then I pray that those born will choose Jesus.

 

[r4.h]

I do not see his command rescinded. Unsaved intelligent and empathetic people will turn and hand you over to authorities when the mark of the beast is being forced on all to buy and sell. Do you think God will allow the world to end by any other means than His return and then those last minute details before the final curtain?

 

[Heber Book List]

I've read read a couple of pages on this thread and can see useful comments, as well as less useful comments.

Tell me, why are you dealing with marriage / divorce, in relation to sinfulness, differently to, presumably, judging by some comments on here, any other sin that one may commit, knowingly, or not?

Repented of sin is forgiven and will never be brought to mind, says various scriptures - so why put this question out on a limb for special treatment? There is no theological reason for doing this because G_d told us ALL not to sin, but we do - he even names some of the sins we are to specifically avoid, in scripture, but we break them. He didn't make a heirarchy of sin, in fact Yeshua said that if you break one teaching, you break them all. Leviticus Ch. 4 & 5 tell us that if you find that you have sinned (without realising it), then if you truly repent of that sin, when you realise it, it is still forgiven, never to bring to mind again, says G_d. I do not see, anywhere, in scripture, that God made a general rule with certain caveats on possible outcomes in the way marriage / divorce is being paraded on this thread.

 

[r4.h]

I've read read a couple of pages on this thread and can see useful comments, as well as less useful comments.

Tell me, why are you dealing with marriage / divorce, in relation to sinfulness, differently to, presumably, judging by some comments on here, any other sin that one may commit, knowingly, or not?

Repented of sin is forgiven and will never be brought to mind, says various scriptures - so why put this question out on a limb for special treatment? There is no theological reason for doing this because G_d told us ALL not to sin, but we do - he even names some of the sins we are to specifically avoid, in scripture, but we break them. He didn't make a heirarchy of sin, in fact Yeshua said that if you break one teaching, you break them all. Leviticus Ch. 4 & 5 tell us that if you find that you have sinned (without realising it), then if you truly repent of that sin, when you realise it, it is still forgiven, never to bring to mind again, says G_d. I do not see, anywhere, in scripture, that God made a general rule with certain caveats on possible outcomes in the way marriage / divorce is being paraded on this thread.

Because (IF) remarriage is adultery, then it is ongoing adultery until it is severed. But (IF) remarriage is not adultery, then carry on. The bible has a clear list of those who won`t make it if they die in that sin.
If someone is a thief and then see`s the Lord and his heart is changed, he will not only stop stealing but labor to pay back what he can. We do not consider him repentant until he atleast stop stealing or is under going accountability and determined to change at all cost.
Yes even "little sins" can take us to hell, but what those who warn about adultery through remarriage are concerned with is that, many who are remarried do not consider it adultery, and are therefore in very real danger of ending up in hell, crying out "My pastor said it was ok, Oh why didn`t someone tell me"