Divorce and remarriage

Heber Book List

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Because (IF) remarriage is adultery, then it is ongoing adultery until it is severed. But (IF) remarriage is not adultery, then carry on. The bible has a clear list of those who won`t make it if they die in that sin.
If someone is a thief and then see`s the Lord and his heart is changed, he will not only stop stealing but labor to pay back what he can. We do not consider him repentant until he atleast stop stealing or is under going accountability and determined to change at all cost.
Yes even "little sins" can take us to hell, but what those who warn about adultery through remarriage are concerned with is that, many who are remarried do not consider it adultery, and are therefore in very real danger of ending up in hell, crying out "My pastor said it was ok, Oh why didn't someone tell me"

The Bible forbids a person, once divorced, to re-marry the same partner. Divorce is not G_d's will for us, but neither is sinning, under any guise.To sin without repentance is not good for one's after life experience, I know, but to assume that a broken marriage may never be repented of, by either party, is a giant step to take, theologically.

But:

What about people who are divorced against their will - they will be condemned to a life of having no love because the one they loved, and probably still love, has revoked the marriage vows?

What about people who have been divorced by their spouse who then, later, dies. Is that person a divorced person or a widow(er)?

What about people forced into a marriage of convenience, where the other person disappears, never to be seen again?

What about those whose spouse commits adultery within the marriage - does the spouse who stays true have to just put up with it?

What about the spouse who is abused by their other half (either way round) - must they just accept the abuse because to save being beaten, by divorcing the other person, will put them in eternal hell? What a choice for the G_d of love to give them?

Finally, almost, why did G_d tell all his people to effectively divorce their wives and send them and their children away from the camp. How come Jesus has a known foreign prostitute in his genealogy - would she not, under G_d's rules, be tied to the first man she went to bed with? Or the woman at the well with multiple divorces behind her, and no adverse comment on that from Jesus?

G_d is not so black and white on these issues as you seem to think.

Just out of interest, does your theology allow for those in same sex 'marriages' who go through the same process as heterosexual marriages at the point of marriage and at the point of divorce? PS I am NOT arguing for this form of marriage, before you bite my hand off! :)
 
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BukiRob

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Because (IF) remarriage is adultery, then it is ongoing adultery until it is severed. But (IF) remarriage is not adultery, then carry on. The bible has a clear list of those who won`t make it if they die in that sin.
If someone is a thief and then see`s the Lord and his heart is changed, he will not only stop stealing but labor to pay back what he can. We do not consider him repentant until he atleast stop stealing or is under going accountability and determined to change at all cost.
Yes even "little sins" can take us to hell, but what those who warn about adultery through remarriage are concerned with is that, many who are remarried do not consider it adultery, and are therefore in very real danger of ending up in hell, crying out "My pastor said it was ok, Oh why didn`t someone tell me"

I think it is instructional to look at the Hebraic view on divorce and remarriage. As I have gotten older I have grown increasingly suspicious of the gentile rigid doctrinal views which, while not always, are OFTEN completely off base with what is actually being communicated.

For one, G-d ALLOWED divorce and remarriage prior to the coming of Messiah. Secondly, Yeshua ALWAYS pointed to the highest aim of Torah. Third, I would CAUTION you that Yeshua openly said: "Judge not lest you yourself be judged for by the standard you judge others, you shall your self-be judged."

The cold, hard truth is that I and YOU are dirty, rotten, filthy, stinking sinners. There is not a day that goes by that you do not sin. NOT ONE. Me? I am in ever-present NEED of GRACE and MERCY because in my flesh dwells NO GOOD THING. The ONLY good thing that I can cling to is Messiah and beg for his mercy because I fail daily.

The problem you have is this: For I tell you unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

It is a grievous mistake to believe that the pharisee's did not have external righteousness. Their error was one of placing their traditions ABOVE the commands of the Torah.

The lesson here IMO is something Paul speaks about when he says: work out your salvation with fear and trembling. That we must be ever mindful of the fact that we are saved by grace and mercy and that our personal, haughty righteousness is but FILTH and it can and often does lead us to be arrogant and judgemental when we should be ever mindful that it is G-d who redeemed us when we deserved to die.

God said plainly when man was created that "IT IS NOT GOOD for Man to dwell alone." We know based on science that men who live alone do not live as long as men who are married.

What if your spouse pursues a divorce and you do not want a divorce? Under your rigid view, the poor man is left to suffer alone when he did not want a divorce? How is that fair and just? We already know G-d has deemed it as not good... Yes, G-d HATES divorce and YES his desire is to be joined at marriage and parted at death. That is the highest aim.
 
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gadar perets

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The Bible forbids a person, once divorced, to re-marry the same partner.
I understand the command to mean you may not remarry your divorced wife IF she married someone else before returning you.
 
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r4.h

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For one, G-d ALLOWED divorce and remarriage prior to the coming of Messiah. Secondly, Yeshua ALWAYS pointed to the highest aim of Torah. Third, I would CAUTION you that Yeshua openly said: "Judge not lest you yourself be judged for by the standard you judge others, you shall your self-be judged."

What if your spouse pursues a divorce and you do not want a divorce? Under your rigid view, the poor man is left to suffer alone when he did not want a divorce? How is that fair and just? We already know G-d has deemed it as not good... Yes, G-d HATES divorce and YES his desire is to be joined at marriage and parted at death. That is the highest aim.

Where does it say God allowed divorce in OT. Moses did not grant divorce, he only regulated remarriage to prevent the land being polluted such that God would destroy them all as He nearly did except that Moses stood in the breach, Duet 9:28
If you will recall, God told Moses he should now deal with the people lest His fire consume again. (my paraphrase) No where does it say Moses or God gave divorce as option. There were many things the Israelites did while living among the pagans that God never commanded or condoned.

We are not discussing any rule of mine, rigid or otherwise. What is to be decided is "what does God command" ? Yeshua pointed out what men had heard and commonly understood, but then He then would say "But I tell you" Whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery"
Yes its not good for man to live alone, but Yeshua is more than able to compensate any who must be eunuchs for His sake. I have been single now for 28 yrs, so I think i qualify to make comment without fear of judging. I believe you are using that verse out of context, of which many use subtafuge not to be examined in the light.
 
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Heber Book List

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Where does it say God allowed divorce in OT. Moses did not grant divorce, he only regulated remarriage to prevent the land being polluted such that God would destroy them all as He nearly did except that Moses stood in the breach, Duet 9:28
If you will recall, God told Moses he should now deal with the people lest His fire consume again. (my paraphrase) No where does it say Moses or God gave divorce as option. There were many things the Israelites did while living among the pagans that God never commanded or condoned.

We are not discussing any rule of mine, rigid or otherwise. What is to be decided is "what does God command" ? Yeshua pointed out what men had heard and commonly understood, but then He then would say "But I tell you" Whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery"
Yes its not good for man to live alone, but Yeshua is more than able to compensate any who must be eunuchs for His sake. I have been single now for 28 yrs, so I think i qualify to make comment without fear of judging. I believe you are using that verse out of context, of which many use subtafuge not to be examined in the light.


Are you going to address post #81?
 
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r4.h

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I understand the command to mean you may not remarry your divorced wife IF she married someone else before returning you.

That command Duet 24:1-4 is not for Christians, not because it is OT, but because it was only regulation of remarriage to prevent the land being polluted v4 lest God visit them with wrath.

The land would be polluted, means that such disharmony from mistrust and emotional wounds after legalized wife swapping would lead to the following generations becoming more and more separated from God and His ways.
 
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Heber Book List

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That command Duet 24:1-4 is not for Christians, not because it is OT, but because it was only regulation of remarriage to prevent the land being polluted v4 lest God visit them with wrath.

The land would be polluted, means that such disharmony from mistrust and emotional wounds after legalized wife swapping would lead to the following generations becoming more and more separated from God and His ways.

But broken marriages did continue, right up to, and past, the birth of Yeshua. In fact his own mum and dad nearly separated after she became pregnant. The intervention of G_d convinced Joseph that the shame of Mary in the community, if he reported her to the High Priest, and the procedure she would have to endure, was not acceptable because the Spirit was involved.
 
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r4.h

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Are you going to address post #81?
sorry i didnt see your post #81.

Have you heard "obey God and leave the consequences to Him"?

Your main point seems to be the injustice of those who find themselves divorced through no fault of theirs. Have you considered the millions of Christians martyred for Christ or imprisoned for years, languishing in filthy prisons, half starved and often tortured? And someone wants to answer Jesus at the judgement saying "sorry, asking me to go unmarried for the rest of my life was just too much"
or "I just couldnt believe your promise to never leave me or forsake me, or that You said you wouldnt put me through more than i could bare"

My brother I have been single for 26 yrs since coming to Christ because my marriage failed. My wife was previously married and I was not a christian at the time nor did i know it was a wrongful marriage until 5 yrs ago. But though I suffer for Christ` sake, He is my joy and my salvation.
 
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r4.h

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But broken marriages did continue, right up to, and past, the birth of Yeshua. In fact his own mum and dad nearly separated after she became pregnant. The intervention of G_d convinced Joseph that the shame of Mary in the community, if he reported her to the High Priest, and the procedure she would have to endure, was not acceptable because the Spirit was involved.

But in the beginning it was not so. Talk more later, its 10.15pm here, im off to bed.
 
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Heber Book List

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sorry i didnt see your post #81.

Have you heard "obey God and leave the consequences to Him"?

Your main point seems to be the injustice of those who find themselves divorced through no fault of theirs. Have you considered the millions of Christians martyred for Christ or imprisoned for years, languishing in filthy prisons, half starved and often tortured? And someone wants to answer Jesus at the judgement saying "sorry, asking me to go unmarried for the rest of my life was just too much"
or "I just couldnt believe your promise to never leave me or forsake me, or that You said you wouldnt put me through more than i could bare"

My brother I have been single for 26 yrs since coming to Christ because my marriage failed. My wife was previously married and I was not a christian at the time nor did i know it was a wrongful marriage until 5 yrs ago. But though I suffer for Christ` sake, He is my joy and my salvation.

Sweet dreams! I am a theologian in Applied Theology - how G_d's word relates to the world today. It is just not possible to brush the complications under the carpet, because we live in a real world where there is much sin and even more disdain for G_d and his word. However, we must maintain some sense of being able to deal with issues in the modern world by not just saying that all issues are clean cut and there can be no room for G_d's love to shine into broken lives.

I am sure you remember that Yeshua said that if you break one Law, you break them all, so to take your stance, then ALL on this earth will be condemned to hell, because we all sin, either knowingly or unknowingly and so, if divorce doesn't get us, a million other sins will. G_d showed us in Yeshua that we can repent for ALL types of sin, if we are sincere. From what you say, those who remarry, or those whom they marry, are condemned to hell - there is no repentance available for them, and they cannot then divorce and go back to their original partners because that, too, would be a sin, not to mention the problems related to any offspring. Yeshua died on the Cross for them as well, and not just the goody goodies, who live perfect married lives, but who sin in a million other ways!

OK, so most, but not all, of those questions was about unfair divorce, but I note you do not provide an answer - that is not acceptable teaching to people who are crying out in despair. Let me give you another situation to ponder when you wake up: As an Ordained minister I once had to go and see a young woman who was being abused by her husband in this way: once a month, he and his male friends watched films on tv, after which she was was forced to have sex with her husband's friends; he also beat her regularly. I could not get her to go to the authorities because she was far too frightened of the consequences. This was way back in the early 90's when, as we now know, many rapes etc were not taken seriously by the authorities. She came to see me because she felt that she had to just move away and get a divorce from him, for her own safety - she wanted to know if that was a right thing to do as she had been a Catholic in her younger days. They had no children. She would not give me permission to go and speak to the police and I could not break a pastoral confidence where I had been explicitly told not to.

This was an actual case I had to deal with, not a hypothetical incident to trip you up. Tell me, what you would suggest for this woman, then I will tell you what I said to her.
 
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visionary

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Many lives have been manipulated by the "law" of divorce and remarriage. This abuse has condemned people to single lives, marriage with horrible circumstances, and abusers taking advantage of the understanding of what God wants for them in this circumstances, which has been taught by many theologians. I believe it is time to "let my people go".. We are not to stand in judgement of those who have to walk in their circumstances and the choices they made. We are to forgive. Part of forgiveness, is to encourage them to "go and sin no more". Does that mean they get a second chance? I think so.
 
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gadar perets

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That command Duet 24:1-4 is not for Christians, not because it is OT, but because it was only regulation of remarriage to prevent the land being polluted v4 lest God visit them with wrath.

The land would be polluted, means that such disharmony from mistrust and emotional wounds after legalized wife swapping would lead to the following generations becoming more and more separated from God and His ways.
I disagree. Deut 24:1-4 is for all of YHWH's people.

Deu 24:1 When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.
This was upheld by Yeshua in allowing divorce for the reason of "inappropriate contenteia" (sexual immorality). The higher road, however, is to forgive your spouse.

Deu 24:2 And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife.
The bill of divorcement freed both parties to remarry. According to Yeshua, this was permitted by YHWH because of the hardness of their hearts.

Deu 24:3 And if the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth it in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, which took her to be his wife;
Again, the wife is freed from her marriage and can marry another.

Deu 24:4 Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before YHWH:
This is still an abomination in YHWH's sight. No believer can take back his divorced wife after she has been defiled by another husband.

and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which YHWH thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.
This is still applicable to believers living in the land. It does not apply to believers outside the land.

My wife committed adultery a second time ( I forgave her both times). She then she chose to divorce me through the state. YHWH did not honor such a divorce because she had no Scriptural grounds to divorce me. I knew that if she married another she would be an adulteress in an adulterous marriage, so I gave her a bill of divorcement after the state divorced us. That bill allowed her to be freed from our marriage and to remarry if so desired. I, however, believe 1 Corinthians 7:27 is wise advice for me, so I choose to not remarry, but to devote my remaining days exclusively to serving YHWH and Yeshua. I also believe 1 Corinthians 7:28 allows me to remarry if I so choose.
 
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Heber Book List

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Interestingly, it does not forbid a never before married man from marrying a divorcee, or a never before married woman from marrying a divorced man.

If divorce was a complete 'no no', one might have expected G_d to rule against these options.
 
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gadar perets

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I agree. However, many divorcees today we're divorced unlawfully in the eyes of YHWH. Can a never before married man marry a woman who divorced her husband simply because she was bored with him or didn't care for his various idiosyncrasies? The state would grant such a divorce, but YHWH would not.
 
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Dkh587

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I disagree. Deut 24:1-4 is for all of YHWH's people.

Deu 24:1 When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.
This was upheld by Yeshua in allowing divorce for the reason of "inappropriate contenteia" (sexual immorality). The higher road, however, is to forgive your spouse.

Deu 24:2 And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife.
The bill of divorcement freed both parties to remarry. According to Yeshua, this was permitted by YHWH because of the hardness of their hearts.

Deu 24:3 And if the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth it in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, which took her to be his wife;
Again, the wife is freed from her marriage and can marry another.

Deu 24:4 Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before YHWH:
This is still an abomination in YHWH's sight. No believer can take back his divorced wife after she has been defiled by another husband.

and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which YHWH thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.
This is still applicable to believers living in the land. It does not apply to believers outside the land.

My wife committed adultery a second time ( I forgave her both times). She then she chose to divorce me through the state. YHWH did not honor such a divorce because she had no Scriptural grounds to divorce me. I knew that if she married another she would be an adulteress in an adulterous marriage, so I gave her a bill of divorcement after the state divorced us. That bill allowed her to be freed from our marriage and to remarry if so desired. I, however, believe 1 Corinthians 7:27 is wise advice for me, so I choose to not remarry, but to devote my remaining days exclusively to serving YHWH and Yeshua. I also believe 1 Corinthians 7:28 allows me to remarry if I so choose.
Shabbat Shalom

May I ask, what was the bill of divorcement that you gave her? Was it something you wrote yourself or a legal document? Just curious how you went about that.
 
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gadar perets

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Shabbat Shalom

May I ask, what was the bill of divorcement that you gave her? Was it something you wrote yourself or a legal document? Just curious how you went about that.
I wrote it myself. In my view, it was legal in the eyes of YHWH whereas the state "legal" divorce was illegal in His eyes.
 
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visionary

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By writing it herself, it is her commitment to recognise they are both free to remarry. It is better than a one sided legal paper drawn up because one party wants out. By her or him drawing up the papers, they have committed their hearts and minds to this. As she said, it is legitimized in her eyes before the Lord.
 
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gadar perets

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By writing it herself, it is her commitment to recognise they are both free to remarry. It is better than a one sided legal paper drawn up because one party wants out. By her or him drawing up the papers, they have committed their hearts and minds to this. As she said, it is legitimized in her eyes before the Lord.
She would never have written it herself. She agreed to sign the document I drafted which was based on a typical Jewish Get that I modified to a Messianic perspective and to our situation.
 
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Heber Book List

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I would never officiate at a wedding that was the clear result of the unfaithfulness of one or other of the parties to their spouse. If an affair led to them wanting to marry, they would have to find another Minister because I would simply refuse to officiate.
 
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Where does it say God allowed divorce in OT. Moses did not grant divorce, he only regulated remarriage to prevent the land being polluted such that God would destroy them all as He nearly did except that Moses stood in the breach, Duet 9:28
If you will recall, God told Moses he should now deal with the people lest His fire consume again. (my paraphrase) No where does it say Moses or God gave divorce as option. There were many things the Israelites did while living among the pagans that God never commanded or condoned.

We are not discussing any rule of mine, rigid or otherwise. What is to be decided is "what does God command" ? Yeshua pointed out what men had heard and commonly understood, but then He then would say "But I tell you" Whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery"
Yes its not good for man to live alone, but Yeshua is more than able to compensate any who must be eunuchs for His sake. I have been single now for 28 yrs, so I think i qualify to make comment without fear of judging. I believe you are using that verse out of context, of which many use subtafuge not to be examined in the light.
Mathew 19:8 He said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.
 
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