Discussion: Prophetic Seers?

[Hidden In Him]

That was not a very pastoral response..Not very loving either....

Don't worry. Oscarr knows I'm playing with Him a little (though I'm very serious about the arguments I'm presenting). If we were in person we would be having a good laugh together. I wouldn't give him any choice, LoL.

Oscar is right though...The scripture does say that....Read 1 John 2:25-29 He may have used it wrongly in that it only vaguely applies to a seer or a prophet....but why slap at him?

Slap him? I'm just being a little strong because it's an important issue. You don't see him folding up and blowing away, do you? Trust me. Oscarr is no wilting Lilly, and with such a personality as his a little strong opposition isn't going to hurt him any at all. He knows me well enough to know I wish him no ill-will, which is more than can be said with others that seem to discuss matters with him sometimes.

Relax. When I'm really putting it to someone I admit I can be ugly (and wrongly so), but this isn't it.

 

[Denadii]

Don't worry. Oscarr knows I'm playing with Him a little (though I'm very serious about the arguments I'm presenting). If we were in person we would be having a good laugh together. I wouldn't give him any choice, LoL.


Slap him? I'm just being a little strong because it's an important issue. You don't see him folding up and blowing away, do you? Trust me. Oscarr is no wilting Lilly, and with such a personality as his a little strong opposition isn't going to hurt him any at all. He knows me well enough to know I wish him no ill-will, which is more than can be said with others that seem to discuss matters with him sometimes.

Relax. When I'm really putting it to someone I admit I can be ugly (and wrongly so), but this isn't it.

Ok

 

[Emli]

I agree. The difference between a clarvoyant "seer" and a New Testament prophetic seer is that the former points people away from Christ and the latter increases a believer's faith in Christ. No one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit, so if a prophetic seer shares something that causes a believer to enhance their experience with God and draw them closer to Christ, then it cannot be anything else but the Holy Spirit, even if the method of conveying the word might be unusual or not expressly stated in Scripture. The fact that it draws a person closer to Christ makes it in harmony with Scripture in that the Scripture is written to do exactly the same thing.

I recently had a very disturbing experience with a so-called "seer". She claims she can see into people's souls and hearts. And I talked to her, then she kept kind of and attacking and accusing me of things. She pointed out my strengths as though they were weaknesses and tried to tear down my faith. And she misused Scripture.
So I asked her to prove to me that she knows Scripture and she refused, then she wrote some more malicious accusations and ended the conversation. I was already in a place of doubt and sadness before this conversation, going through something really rough, and it was obvious to me that it was not God speaking through her. Because her words would have broken my spirit and my faith down had I listened to her. The Holy Spirit would have edified and comforted me, especially considering how fragile I am right now.
Would you agree?

I'm learning how important it is to be really careful.

 

[Denadii]

I recently had a very disturbing experience with a so-called "seer". She claims she can see into people's souls and hearts. And I talked to her, then she kept kind of and attacking and accusing me of things. She pointed out my strengths as though they were weaknesses and tried to tear down my faith. And she misused Scripture.
So I asked her to prove to me that she knows Scripture and she refused, then she wrote some more malicious accusations and ended the conversation. I was already in a place of doubt and sadness before this conversation, going through something really rough, and it was obvious to me that it was not God speaking through her. Because her words would have broken my spirit and my faith down had I listened to her. The Holy Spirit would have edified and comforted me, especially considering how fragile I am right now.
Would you agree?

I'm learning how important it is to be really careful.

Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrright you are Lassie! In my experience, real prophets and real seers don't advertise the fact of their gift..why not? Its not a gift that a sane person wants...Well maybe not 'sane' but you get my drift, I hope..Who really wants to set themselves up to look like a fool if they get it wrong?
Only the wannabe's broadcast it..."Ooooh! I'm a prophet! Watch me trip you up!" These same people couldn't tell you where their bibles are but they tell you all the horrible things about you? No.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrright you are Lassie! In my experience, real prophets and real seers don't advertise the fact of their gift..why not? Its not a gift that a sane person wants...Well maybe not 'sane' but you get my drift, I hope..Who really wants to set themselves up to look like a fool if they get it wrong?
Only the wannabe's broadcast it..."Ooooh! I'm a prophet! Watch me trip you up!" These same people couldn't tell you where their bibles are but they tell you all the horrible things about you? No.

Ok but wait a minute. Both Oscarr and I are vocal about operating in spiritual gifts. How would you differentiate between discussing such subjects openly and "advertising"? To me, to deny one has a spiritual gift when one does is to show either a certain level of false humility or cowardice. And I think such matters should be discussed openly, especially when they are not so well understood.

 

[Emli]

Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrright you are Lassie! In my experience, real prophets and real seers don't advertise the fact of their gift..why not? Its not a gift that a sane person wants...Well maybe not 'sane' but you get my drift, I hope..Who really wants to set themselves up to look like a fool if they get it wrong?
Only the wannabe's broadcast it..."Ooooh! I'm a prophet! Watch me trip you up!" These same people couldn't tell you where their bibles are but they tell you all the horrible things about you? No.

What a great comment. Put a big smile on my face, which I really needed. And I completely agree with you. Thank you!

 

[Emli]

Now, keep in mind I'm new to the whole gift thing. I'm just now learning about mine. But this is what I'm thinking:

If a gift could ever be used to hurt someone, or put a stumbling block before someone, then it's not of God.

Because it's the Holy Spirit that works in a person to minister to someone else, and God cannot sin, nor go against His Word.

So if someone claims to operate in a gift and fails, then that gift is not of God.

???

 

[Denadii]

Ok but wait a minute. Both Oscarr and I are vocal about operating in spiritual gifts. How would you differentiate between discussing such subjects openly and "advertising"? To me, to deny one has a spiritual gift when one does is to show either a certain level of false humility or cowardice. And I think such matters should be discussed openly, especially when they are not so well understood.

I'm not against discussing the topic at all...What I said was...real prophets or seers do not talk about themselves being prophets or seers...I did write that. Only the phoney ones do that...Bragging on themselves. And again....I'm not saying they deny their gift...They do use it...and use it well...I'm saying that they do not advertise the fact that they are prophets. The gift speaks for itself.

 

[Emli]

I'm not against discussing the topic at all...What I said was...real prophets or seers do not talk about themselves being prophets or seers...I did write that. Only the phoney ones do that...Bragging on themselves.

I agree. Glory to themselves instead of glory to God. And focusing on themselves and their "gift" instead of on the person they are trying to minister to.

 

[Hidden In Him]

If a gift could ever be used to hurt someone, or put a stumbling block before someone, then it's not of God.

Because it's the Holy Spirit that works in a person to minister to someone else, and God cannot sin, nor go against His Word.

So if someone claims to operate in a gift and fails, then that gift is not of God.

Ok, but now you're assuming that someone operating in a true spiritual gift can never "miss" it. I doubt if Oscarr would agree with that position and I know I don't agree with it. Those take this position are nearly always if not always people who have never actually operated in one (not that I'm saying this about you, LoL).

 

[Denadii]

Now, keep in mind I'm new to the whole gift thing. I'm just now learning about mine. But this is what I'm thinking:

If a gift could ever be used to hurt someone, or put a stumbling block before someone, then it's not of God.

Because it's the Holy Spirit that works in a person to minister to someone else, and God cannot sin, nor go against His Word.

So if someone claims to operate in a gift and fails, then that gift is not of God.

???

Yes..That is often the case...Still,one must remember...As a prophet I can prophesy over you, and you can block the fulfilling of said prophesy. Our Father will not force anything on you. So just because someone brags on himself....You need to allow the Holy Spirit to guide you. Always in all things.

 

[Emli]

Ok, but now you're assuming that someone operating in a true spiritual gift can never "miss" it. I doubt if Oscarr would agree with that position and I know I don't agree with it. Those take this position are nearly always if not always people who have never actually operated in one (not that I'm saying this about you, LoL).

Of course they can, I've messed up plenty, but God always corrects me. If God is supposedly using someone to minister to you, and the only fruit that comes from it is sadness, despair and doubt, don't you think that God would have stopped that person instead of letting them hurt someone?

Do you really believe that God would have told a person to tell someone else that their strength is a weakness? Then He would be lying.

Bringing a message in the wrong way, yeah, that could happen. But not the wrong message. Not the opposite of what God has told the person before. That's not God doing the talking...

 

[Hidden In Him]

I'm not against discussing the topic at all...What I said was...real prophets or seers do not talk about themselves being prophets or seers...I did write that. Only the phoney ones do that...Bragging on themselves.

But I'm openly saying on this thread that I'm an interpreter of dreams, so you would need to differentiate a little more clearly. Openly attesting can be misconstrued for "bragging" quite easily, especially by Cessationsists and/or denominationalists who downplay the gifts and relegate them to relative insignificance. I know because I've personally been accused of "bragging" before on the subject when I was simply trying to have an honest discussion about it.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Of course they can, I've messed up plenty, but God always corrects me. If God is supposedly using someone to minister to you, and the only fruit that comes from it is sadness, despair and doubt, don't you think that God would have stopped that person instead of letting them hurt someone?

Certainly, but Denadii's comment would also apply here in a sense. God cannot force anything on anyone, including His children. And the discipline of the Lord can sometimes hurt. Don't you agree?

 

[Emli]

Yes..That is often the case...Still,one must remember...As a prophet I can prophesy over you, and you can block the fulfilling of said prophesy. Our Father will not force anything on you. So just because someone brags on himself....You need to allow the Holy Spirit to guide you. Always in all things.

I don't know enough to understand this yet.

But of course. I always let the Holy Spirit guide me in everything. I'm at such a weird place, I can't seem to do anything without Him. But that's how I knew not to listen to that "seer", because the Holy Spirit stopped me. I don't know for certain if something is of God or not, but He certainly knows.

 

[Emli]

Certainly, but Denadii's comment would also apply here in a sense. God cannot force anything on anyone, including His children. And the discipline of the Lord can sometimes hurt. Don't you agree?

Of course, but the things she said weren't rebukes, they were accusations. Fiery darts. And things that were the opposite of what God was telling me. I've asked the Lord to be hard on me. He rebukes me instantly. No other person needs to do that for me.

I'll give an example.

What the Lord has told me: I listen too much to other people, out of fear of man, and I have been learning falsehood. God has rebuked me for it for months, because it's very destructive, telling me 1 John 2:27. The "seer" told me I needed to listen to her, because she's older and more experienced, (yet she barely knew Scripture or had any type of spiritual understanding when I tested her), and I guess she was insulted when I said I didn't wish to, and I quote her response "You're sooooooooooo self-sufficient... Don't wanna listen to anyone!!!"

Not of God! He intervened at that moment. And then He has been telling me "Don't believe in everything you hear!" many times.

There are people who prey on the weak, to gain spiritual authority, and she is definitely one of them.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Certainly, but Denadii's comment would also apply here in a sense. God cannot force anything on anyone, including His children. And the discipline of the Lord can sometimes hurt. Don't you agree?

Mind you I have no idea what was said, nor am I asking to know. But I do know that the discipline of the Lord is never particularly pleasant for anyone, so it usually comes down to the passing of time to sort of what was truly of God and what wasn't, since the pain involved can make discerning between which is which tougher.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I recently had a very disturbing experience with a so-called "seer". She claims she can see into people's souls and hearts. And I talked to her, then she kept kind of and attacking and accusing me of things. She pointed out my strengths as though they were weaknesses and tried to tear down my faith. And she misused Scripture.
So I asked her to prove to me that she knows Scripture and she refused, then she wrote some more malicious accusations and ended the conversation. I was already in a place of doubt and sadness before this conversation, going through something really rough, and it was obvious to me that it was not God speaking through her. Because her words would have broken my spirit and my faith down had I listened to her. The Holy Spirit would have edified and comforted me, especially considering how fragile I am right now.
Would you agree?

I'm learning how important it is to be really careful.

From your description it is evident that this has weakened your faith and has caused confusion, stress and depression. There is no love, joy, peace, kindness, or gentleness in what you received. On that basis I am certain that the word you got from this person is not in harmony with Scripture and therefore could not have come from the Holy Spirit.

My advice to you is to reject the prophecy in the Name of Jesus and bind any "virus" in the form of a spirit of divination that might accompany that prophecy. You don't have to say this to the person giving the prophecy. You get before God and say it to him and tell the devil that you are born of God and no spirit of divination can come anywhere near you.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Not of God! He intervened at that moment. And then He has been telling me "Don't believe in everything you hear!" many times.

Well this one is good to live by, I can promise you that one, LoL. I've been living by that since practically the day I was born spiritually. Ha Ha!

I've asked the Lord to be hard on me. He rebukes me instantly. No other person needs to do that for me.

Now this one here gets to the very heart of what Oscarr and I have debated over. I'm not convinced that all believers can trust themselves to never need outside correction, or to always welcome it when they receive a rebuke. In fact, I find the opposite to usually be true. I find most believers resent the daylights out of it, LoL.

But I will give you this. When someone speaks a word that is NOT well received it is time for the prophet to back off. Hammering away at someone is a sure sign of holding resentment. Does this person still bother you?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Ok, but now you're assuming that someone operating in a true spiritual gift can never "miss" it. I doubt if Oscarr would agree with that position and I know I don't agree with it. Those take this position are nearly always if not always people who have never actually operated in one (not that I'm saying this about you, LoL).

To determine whether a Word is in harmony with Scripture or not, we need to examine in the light of the fruit of the Spirit. If the word comes with love, joy, peace, gentleness and kindness, and generally increases your faith in Christ because you see His love, joy, peace, gentleness ad kindness coming through the Word, then you can safely accept it as coming from the Holy Spirit.

A person may "miss" it concerning some of the details in the prophecy, but this doesn't mean that it is false, as long as it has the characteristics and the impact that I have described.