Originally Posted by
Laodicean
So, even if God Himself says that the Sabbath is a memorial of creation, you disagree? "Remember" = memorial. "Remember...for in six days, the Lord made...."
Stormy, I take the position that holy men of God wrote as they were inspired by God's Spirit. So, therefore, it doesn't matter to me the name of the writer, whether it be Moses or someone else. I think there is enough evidence of a supernatural power behind the writing for me to accept and wrestle with the writings, not discard them.
And since I accept the writings as authoritative, then when the writer says that God wrote the 10 commandments with His finger, I accept the word "remember" as being from God. And I accept the writer's description of God speaking the 10C from Mt. Sinai as reality.
I think where we differ is that where you think that because men wrote the Bible, it cannot be trusted, I think that despite it being the writings of men, their message can be trusted, whether in literal, historical, poetic, or prophetic form. Why? Because I detect a supernatural power behind the writing, a Power that foretells the future. In which case, the writings need to be wrestled with for understanding, not set aside as untrustworthy.
Okay. But no need to suspend disbelief. If you don't believe the Bible, then just say so. At least that way we could work towards being on the same page, whatever that page might be. We might have to take a step back and discuss what is solid grounds for a belief.
Originally Posted by Laodicean
I can see you making an argument that the ten commandments are done away with, and therefore, the "Remember" of the 4th commandment no longer applies. But in the context of the ten commandments themselves, the Sabbath is indeed described as a memorial of creation.
Oh, you aren't making an argument that the 10 commandments have been done away with? May I ask for clarification? Do you hold that the 10C still apply or do you hold that they no longer apply?
Deuteronomy amplifies what was given by the voice of God and written with His finger in Exodus 20. Being delivered from bondage is another aspect of Sabbathkeeping, but does not do away with the memorial aspect of creation.
Also, the directive to observe the Sabbath seems to have occurred before Sinai, probably even before the liberation, because Exodus 16:28 gives insight into the law being known before Sinai,
"And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?" I don't think anything is being read into a text that is stated so plainly.
Originally Posted by Laodicean
So...whether you believe the 10C apply today or not, what is your reason for deciding that the Sabbath was not, at least at some point in the past, a memorial of creation? I'm not, at the moment, suggesting that you must keep the Sabbath holy, but rather, simply asking, in a vacuum, why you think the Sabbath is not connected to creation.
The text says that God sanctified the seventh day. Genesis 2:3,
"And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made." I see no reason to ignore the "sanctified" part and concentrate only on the "rest" part. When, later, God says, "remember ... because that in it He had created," then, to me, it definitely ties Sabbath and Creation together.
Originally Posted by Laodicean
Okay. How long do you think it took for creation to occur? Surely, you must have a foundation for your belief, whatever it is, otherwise, it would just be a case of "This is my opinion," nothing more.
In my understanding, the universe is old, the earth's foundation materials are old, but life on earth is young. So that would take care of your proffer of billions of stars and the light from those stars taking time to reach earth.
As to fossils, that would take a thread by itself just to discuss them. But briefly, from my study on the subject matter of fossils, I have come to the conclusion that they are interpreted according to worldview, and I've resolved my interpretation
on a scientific basis, so don't feel a need to accept the evolutionary worldview.
Originally Posted by Laodicean
My position is based on what it says in Genesis. "Evening and morning" is a pretty literal phrase. What is your position based on?
It doesn't matter to me who wrote what. Why does it matter to you? To me, it is the evidence of the Supernatural that matters to me, not who His writers were.