Dinosaurs on the Ark?

[Speedwell]

You either believe that the Bible is the world of God or you don't.

What does that have to do with the question of whether Genesis is 100% accurate literal history?

This is a Christians-only forum. We are all Christians here and we all believe in God's creation of the universe and man, in man's fall into sin and need for redemption through the life, death and bodily resurrection of Christ as revealed in divinely inspired scripture.

You can be nasty to us because we don't agree with you about the literal inerrancy of Genesis if you like, but to accuse us of not believing that the Bible is the inspired word of God is inaccurate as well as being offensive.

 

[EpiscipalMe]

The hubris and the arrogance of you poor deluded people never ceases to amaze me. You think because we don't believe a lie it's because we don't understand the lie? Maybe it's because we know the truth. Maybe it's because we understand that our God is Lord of the impossible, and that He does things contrary to natural law to demonstrate to us tame and time again that He is beyond natural law.

The fact that the "oldest" life form had complex DNA which could not possibly have self assembled should indicate that everything which exists was created. It is you who do not understand, not us. We know your theories and reject your theories because our God in which we have faith told us how He created us. It isn't the truth because science confirms it, it is the truth because God said it. You don't get to pick and choose what you believe. You either believe that the Bible is the world of God or you don't. Everyone knows that Jesus confirmed the accuracy of the Scriptures. Do you think you know something He didn't?

The fact is, you're wrong. Man did not evolve. Every time you say he did you're re-stating a lie. If it's contrary to what Jesus taught it's a lie, and Jesus said if you didn't believe in what Moses wrote you wouldn't believe in Him either. I can promise you that it is a sin to come to a Christian forum and attempt to convince others that the word of God is not true. It is a sin to attempt to lead others astray; to put a stumbling block in your brother's way.

It is the evolutionist who do not understand these things.

You think we have hubris and arrogance? Did you read what you just wrote?

I am making an argument for why Genesis is allegory and evolution exists. I believe that both beliefs are compatible with scripture. I also believe in the saving power of Jesus, and that makes me a Christian, same as you.

I also believe that scientific methods and advancements are a gift from God. God has allowed us to discover these things about His creation. I believe understanding nature brings glory to God and that He delights in it.

What I do not do, however, is question the faith of people who choose to take the Bible literally. The Gospels and epistles teach us that faith in Jesus Christ, his message, and his resurrection is sufficient for salvation. That means that we are all Christians and are all saved.

Inevitably, however, these discussions devolve into literalists declaring that evolutionists are of the devil and are going to be judged harshly at the end times. This accusation reeks of hubris and arrogance.

 

[SkyWriting]

Are you now re-writing the T.O.E. and telling me mutations don't occur in the DNA in a random fashion?

I'm telling you that there is no such thing as random in engineering.
A girl I dated in highschool explained, that her father worked in
forensic engineering for an aviation company in Chicago. Much of
what her father did was finding causes for airline crashes. She
was also studying for Engineering. She explained that there
are no random processes.

Christians can also understand this fact. God leaves nothing to chance.

 

[SkyWriting]

The hubris and the arrogance of you poor deluded people never ceases to amaze me.

4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, rejoice! 5 Let your gentle spirit be known to all men. The Lord is near.

1 Therefore I, the prisoner of the Lord, implore you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling with which you have been called, 2 with all humility and gentleness, with patience, showing tolerance for one another in love, 3being diligent to preserve the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

 

[SkyWriting]

If it contradicts the Bible, it won't be true.

You may not be reading scripture correctly, or you might not be reading the original language
or might not be trained in the original language.

The scriptures are only perfect and flawless due to the subject matter. Not becasue people wrote well.

 

[SkyWriting]

Do you really expect me to respond to that? Your argument has already been reduced to absurdness...now you gotta play with mountain height?

Scripture says the earth was dissolved by the flood.
What mountains are you measuring? Pre or post flood?
And there is the fountains of the deep breaking up the earths crust.
That would mess up your geography calculations.

Or you can recognise that the passages say nothing about geography
and are referring to mankind.

 

[Sir Robbins]

I haven't read any responses to the OP but here's mine. I believe the great flood is what wiped dinosaurs out. Man was on the other side of the Atlantic and since most dinosaur bones are found in South America and North America where man did not exist in biblical times, they were likely wiped out with the flood. Bones need to be moist to be preserved... how else would bones be in tact thousands of years later and that archeologists claim everywhere dinos have been found, water was present at one time and many of them believe they drowned

 

[SkyWriting]

Nope.

God cleaned up His own mess.

So effectively in fact, that scientists today can't find a trace.

Let me ask you this:

In your opinion, did God leave a scar and bloody mess behind when He removed one of Adam's ribs to make Eve?

God walked with Adam in the Garden.
Paradise is not the same world we live in.
Paradise is where women don't birth children through a small opening.
Serpents are not so chatty and there are no gates guarded with flaming swords in Africa.
Unless you see some, then the Garden Paradise was not the earth we live in.

That's why Creation week makes no practical sense. We don't live there.

 

[Eryk]

You may not be reading scripture correctly, or you might not be reading the original language
or might not be trained in the original language.

Orthodox Judaism accepts the narrative as factually true in all its details. So a reader can understand Hebrew quite well and believe in a global flood.

 

[-57]

What does that have to do with the question of whether Genesis is 100% accurate literal history?

This is a Christians-only forum. We are all Christians here and we all believe in God's creation of the universe and man, in man's fall into sin and need for redemption through the life, death and bodily resurrection of Christ as revealed in divinely inspired scripture.

You can be nasty to us because we don't agree with you about the literal inerrancy of Genesis if you like, but to accuse us of not believing that the Bible is the inspired word of God is inaccurate as well as being offensive.

I don't think they were being nasty...
I think the truth was presented to you...and you didn't like it.

 

[-57]

Scripture says the earth was dissolved by the flood.
What mountains are you measuring? Pre or post flood?
And there is the fountains of the deep breaking up the earths crust.
That would mess up your geography calculations.

Or you can recognise that the passages say nothing about geography
and are referring to mankind.

keep trying if you want...but you'll need to do much, much better.

 

[Eryk]

Serpents are not so chatty and there are no gates guarded with flaming swords in Africa.
Unless you see some, then the Garden Paradise was not the earth we live in.

There was a flood, and it changed the world. And a snake can talk if God wants it to. You reject the story of Balaam's donkey as well?

 

[KWCrazy]

You can be nasty to us because we don't agree with you about the literal inerrancy of Genesis if you like, but to accuse us of not believing that the Bible is the inspired word of God is inaccurate as well as being offensive.

The post was in response to yet another snarky accusation that those who do not believe in evolution simply do not understand it. We DO understand it, and we understand that the notion of an evolved man stands in direct contrast to the word of God which states that man was created by God from the dust of the earth. Christ said that from the beginning God created them male and female. Christ affirmed the creation of man, not the evolution of man. Accepting the word of God as written does not make us ignorant of science or of the claims of evolutionists. We know and understand the lie. We choose the truth of God over the lie of man. You can accept the lie of man as you choose, but that doesn't make any of us lesser informed or ignorant.

 

[-57]

God walked with Adam in the Garden.
Paradise is not the same world we live in.
Serpents are not so chatty and there are no gates guarded with flaming swords in Africa.
Unless you see some, then the Garden Paradise was not the earth we live in.

That's why Creation week makes no practical sense. We don't live there.

Well, you know...when you let the bible explainthings rather than your make-believe science.....we can understand, as you put it...."Paradise is not the same world we live in"...or "Garden Paradise was not the earth we live in".....whe the bible tells us the flood destroyed that world with a flood.

Believe your bible.

 

[EpiscipalMe]

Orthodox Judaism accepts the narrative as factually true in all its details. So a reader can understand Hebrew quite well and believe in a global flood.

There is still debate among Jewish scholars.
"What matters in Judaism are the concepts shared by all these stories: that the world was created by God, that He planned it carefully and designed it to be hospitable to man. These are the very conclusions to which astronomy now points. The other details of the biblical accounts should not be taken literally, but metaphorically or poetically."
Genesis As Allegory | My Jewish Learning

 

[EpiscipalMe]

The post was in response to yet another snarky accusation that those who do not believe in evolution simply do not understand it. We DO understand it, and we understand that the notion of an evolved man stands in direct contrast to the word of God which states that man was created by God from the dust of the earth. Christ said that from the beginning God created them male and female. Christ affirmed the creation of man, not the evolution of man. Accepting the word of God as written does not make us ignorant of science or of the claims of evolutionists. We know and understand the lie. We choose the truth of God over the lie of man. You can accept the lie of man as you choose, but that doesn't make any of us lesser informed or ignorant.

I suggested you did not understand evolution since you created a false dichotomy between microevolution and macroevolution. They are the same processes just over different time scales.

And, I do not limit this criticism to you. Just take a look at the other threads to see how badly some creationists misunderstand scientific method and scientific evidence.

 

[KWCrazy]

You think we have hubris and arrogance? Did you read what you just wrote?

Did you read what YOU wrote?

I am making an argument for why Genesis is allegory and evolution exists.

And in doing so you accuse those of us who do not accept the lie of evolution as being ignorant of its teaching. Let me remind you of your words. "Also, I do understand evolutionary theory, how DNA works, etc. what I find increasingly on this site, though, is that literalists do not understand these things."
Jesus Christ was a literalist and taught that God created male and female from the beginning. That doesn't mean we don't understand how DNA works. We disagree with how it came about. You claim we don't believe the lie of evolution because we don't understand it. We get that same argument from atheists. We don't need it from Christians. We believe in the creation because the Bible teaches it and Christ affirmed it. You cannot believe in evolution without rejecting part of the Scriptures.

I believe that both beliefs are compatible with scripture. I also believe in the saving power of Jesus, and that makes me a Christian, same as you.

I don't believe that Adam was both created and evolved. I don't believe that "from the beginning" meant billions of years after the beginning.

I also believe that scientific methods and advancements are a gift from God.

So is the wisdom to know the difference between natural and supernatural.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

What Jesus Christ taught is perfect, but the world rejects His Word.

 

[Eryk]

There is still debate among Jewish scholars.
"What matters in Judaism are the concepts shared by all these stories: that the world was created by God, that He planned it carefully and designed it to be hospitable to man. These are the very conclusions to which astronomy now points. The other details of the biblical accounts should not be taken literally, but metaphorically or poetically."
Genesis As Allegory | My Jewish Learning

I didn't say there was unanimity. I said the global flood is the traditional view in Judaism and Christianity. Then came the Enlightenment.

The Flood is a more supernatural event in Rabbinic commentary compared to Christianity. Suspension of many natural laws. God can do anything, right?

 

[EpiscipalMe]

Did you read what YOU wrote?

And in doing so you accuse those of us who do not accept the lie of evolution as being ignorant of its teaching. Let me remind you of your words. "Also, I do understand evolutionary theory, how DNA works, etc. what I find increasingly on this site, though, is that literalists do not understand these things."
Jesus Christ was a literalist and taught that God created male and female from the beginning. That doesn't mean we don't understand how DNA works. We disagree with how it came about. You claim we don't believe the lie of evolution because we don't understand it. We get that same argument from atheists. We don't need it from Christians. We believe in the creation because the Bible teaches it and Christ affirmed it. You cannot believe in evolution without rejecting part of the Scriptures.

I don't believe that Adam was both created and evolved. I don't believe that "from the beginning" meant billions of years after the beginning.

So is the wisdom to know the difference between natural and supernatural.

I accused you of misunderstanding science - perhaps I am wrong, and that is fine.

However, this is a Christian forum, and you accused me of not being a Christian based on how I interpret Genesis - that is the height of arrogance and hubris on this website.

I do not believe that Adam was a literal historical figure. I believe the entire creation story is allegory to tell us that God created mankind in his image. I believe that the story of the Fall is allegory to teach us that we, as a species, have turned from God and thus into sin, requiring His saving grace. I believe the flood story is allegory to teach us the consequences of sin and turning from God.

I believe all the same lessons you do, I just do not take the stories literally. This works for me. I have faith in God and His teachings, yet I also believe what science has shown us.

And, I do not believe that Jesus was a literalist. I believe that He in His perfect knowledge understood the stories as allegory. Perhaps His audience did too, but if they took it literally it was only because they lacked the scientific advances we have today. Scientific advances that are a gift from God, not an affront to Him.

I am happy to debate creationism vs evolution, literalism vs allegory. However, I would thank you not to question the depth of my faith. I do not question yours.