Did the Virgin Mary remain a virgin?

[pat34lee]

The problem still remains that your all three putting modern interpretation and ideas onto a culture that is not yours (unless your 2000 plus years old).

Nothing says that the Blessed Virgin had more Children after Christ. It's not good Scripture but poor learning and a refusal to study history

If she did not have sex with Joseph after Jesus' birth, she would have broken several Mosaic laws, so she would have been a sinner even worse.

 

[Albion]

That's rather bluntly worded, Pat34lee, but it's exactly correct.

The #1 problem with this topic of Mary's ever-virginity is that most people think the doctrine means only that she didn't have sexual relations with anyone before or after the birth of Christ. It doesn't mean that only. It also means that she remained BIOLOGICALLY, PHYSICALLY a virgin even during and after giving birth to Jesus.

The Bible doesn't indicate this. Science says it's impossible. So it's a 'pious opinion' based only upon legend.

 

[pat34lee]

This is not true. In Judaism, there are three things that can get ya married.
1. Having intercourse with the intention of marriage.
2. Making a marriage contract (a get).
3. A payment of property to the woman (usually a ring).

Ideally all three are done, but only one suffices. Thus, no consummation is needed.

A marriage is not formally complete without all three. Without the first, she is guilty of not following the command to be fruitful and multiply.

 

[pat34lee]

That's rather bluntly worded, Pat34lee, but it's exactly correct.

The #1 problem with this topic of Mary's ever-virginity is that most people think the doctrine means only that she didn't have sexual relations with anyone before or after the birth of Christ. It doesn't mean that only. It also means that she remained BIOLOGICALLY, PHYSICALLY a virgin even during and after giving birth to Jesus.

The Bible doesn't indicate this. Science says it's impossible. So it's a 'pious opinion' based only upon legend.

Thank you.

Mary veneration is not even from legend or about piety. It is a direct link to sun worship, Nimrod, Semiramis and Tammuz. Constantine and those after him knitted together paganism and Paulism to create Christianity.

 

[Albion]

Thank you.

Mary veneration is not even from legend or about piety. It is a direct link to sun worship, Nimrod, Semiramis and Tammuz. Constantine and those after him knitted together paganism and Paulism to create Christianity.

Most of that is just incorrect history, but most of the so-called Marian doctrines are indeed based upon nothing but legends. Take the idea of Mary being assumed bodily into heaven, for example. There's absolutely nothing about it in scripture, but some people, in some locales where, by tradition, Mary was said to have been buried (and there are a number of them), claimed that the supposed grave was found to be open and unoccupied. Soon other people heard the story. Voila, instant doctrine.

 

[Albion]

Thank you.

Mary veneration is not even from legend or about piety. It is a direct link to sun worship, Nimrod, Semiramis and Tammuz. Constantine and those after him knitted together paganism and Paulism to create Christianity.

Most of that is just incorrect history, but most of the so-called Marian doctrines are indeed based upon legends exclusively. Take the idea of Mary being assumed bodily into heaven, for example.

There's absolutely nothing about it in scripture, but some people, in some locales where, by tradition, Mary was said to have been buried (and there are a number of them), claimed that the supposed grave was found to be open and unoccupied. Soon other people heard the story. Voila, instant doctrine, even though almost nothing about it was corroborated or even logical.

 

[prodromos]

Not forgetting it at all, His face shone so brightly it had to be veiled. What I am saying, is--why are people trying to make it that anyone who has had a close contact with God, is then to be celibate, when there is no such statement anywhere in the bible?

It doesn't need to be explicitly stated when it can be inferred from the text. Plus we are not saying that someone HAS to be celibate after an intense experience of God, only that everything else would pale to insignificance after such an encounter.

Marital relations are a gift from God and without it, no children are born! It was given in heaven, before the fall, when they were able to be with God, face to face.

(Gen 1:28) And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

He said to be fruitful and multiply--before the fall. Somehow, after the fall, it seems that husband and wife are to be celibate if they have an encounter with God----doesn't even make sense.

Yet it was not until after the fall that Adam and Eve began to have children, was it.

 

[mmksparbud]

It doesn't need to be explicitly stated when it can be inferred from the text. Plus we are not saying that someone HAS to be celibate after an intense experience of God, only that everything else would pale to insignificance after such an encounter.

Yet it was not until after the fall that Adam and Eve began to have children, was it.

Right, inferred. And it is inferred by the texts that Mary did not remain a virgin for the rest of her life. And it can be inferred that Moses did not remain celibate, " "his eye had nit dimmed, nor his strength abated."
And yes, everything would pale to insignificance. I can only imagine how saddened Adam and Eve must have been to have to see thorns and thistles and death mar the spectacular world they had known and to no longer be able to talk face to face with God.---life goes on and however insignificant food, water and breathing and the beauty on this planet may be--they still go on.
And just because they didn't have a child until after the fall, doesn't mean they did not do as God commanded and tried to be fruitful and multiply!

 

[prodromos]

The gnostic gospels are about as credible as a badly written fiction book. They were never intended to be taken seriously.

The synoptic gospels are Matthew, Mark and Luke. Surely you are not suggesting they are gnostic?

 

[prodromos]

Sorry, but that is not consistent with childbirth. Virginity does not survive a child traveling through any better than a male member.

With God, all things are possible.

 

[prodromos]

If she did not have sex with Joseph after Jesus' birth, she would have broken several Mosaic laws, so she would have been a sinner even worse.

Would you be so kind as to ennumerate those laws?

 

[prodromos]

Thank you.

Mary veneration is not even from legend or about piety. It is a direct link to sun worship, Nimrod, Semiramis and Tammuz. Constantine and those after him knitted together paganism and Paulism to create Christianity.

Ah, the gospel according to Alexander Hislop. Fortunately more and more people are investigating the claims and learning what rubbish they really are.

 

[mmksparbud]

With God, all things are possible.

Yes, indeed---but God does not do what is not needed.

 

[prodromos]

Yes, indeed---but God does not do what is not needed.

Did God need to create the universe?

 

[mmksparbud]

Did God need to create the universe?

Yes---or He wouldn't have done it.

 

[Thekla]

A marriage is not formally complete without all three. Without the first, she is guilty of not following the command to be fruitful and multiply.

Jesus doesn't count ?

 

[prodromos]

Yes---or He wouldn't have done it.

I will leave you to your circular reasoning.

I don't believe God needs to do anything because such a god is subject to another force which drives his actions. This is what was proposed by some of the ancient Greek philosophers I believe, but it does not describe the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

 

[prodromos]

Jesus doesn't count ?

Too bad also for all those couples with fertility issues.

 

[pat34lee]

Most of that is just incorrect history, but most of the so-called Marian doctrines are indeed based upon legends exclusively. Take the idea of Mary being assumed bodily into heaven, for example.

There's absolutely nothing about it in scripture, but some people, in some locales where, by tradition, Mary was said to have been buried (and there are a number of them), claimed that the supposed grave was found to be open and unoccupied. Soon other people heard the story. Voila, instant doctrine, even though almost nothing about it was corroborated or even logical.

Most of what history, the beginnings of sun worship or how the RCC incorporated it into Christianity?

 

[pat34lee]

The synoptic gospels are Matthew, Mark and Luke. Surely you are not suggesting they are gnostic?

Sorry, I misread the original quote that I responded to. I edited my response there also.