Did the Jews kill Christ?

[Colter]

Guys, I was just looking at a TV show where a guest has created a documentary on the Holocaust and one speaker in the documentary said "the Jews did not kill Christ".

my thinking is the Romans physically killed Christ but it was the Jews who forced it so they were responsible and accountable, your thoughts on this please?

Closed minded religious men within Judaism rejected the advanced spiritual teachings of Jesus and had him put to death. They have since paid a terrible price. The Jews of today, some of which are Jesus blood relatives, bear no responsibility fir the death of Jesus.

 

[JackRT]

3000 out of how many ? 500 000 ?

Perhaps that many during Passover in Jerusalem. Worldwide? Perhaps as many as 10,000,000.

 

[Serving Zion]

That is some statement. I find it hard to believe that God would purposely "torture" his own innocent son? If God needed Jesus's blood for a new covenant purpose then this could have been done without torture?

It isn't that God needed Christ's blood, but that mankind was incapable of being saved without it (Matthew 19:25-26). I wrote a useful explanation in this post just a few days ago. The parable of the vineyard owner in Matthew 21:33-46 shows the same idea too.

 

[Not David]

Whenever someone bring the case that the Jews killed Christ is because he wants to find an excuse to discriminate Jews.

 

[JackRT]

Whenever someone bring the case that the Jews killed Christ is because he wants to find an excuse to discriminate Jews.

Quite often that is the case.

 

[A71]

Closed minded religious men within Judaism rejected the advanced spiritual teachings of Jesus and had him put to death. They have since paid a terrible price. The Jews of today, some of which are Jesus blood relatives, bear no responsibility fir the death of Jesus.

I would agree. But don't tell the "we all killed Jesus" crowd, because, they think everyone is responsible. Oh wait! Where is the "everyone but the Jews killed Jesus" posse? I think you've just created it, by accident.

 

[parousia70]

3000 out of how many ? 500 000 ?

More like out of a Million or more...

Not "the Jews" --- certainly "some Jews" and a small minority at that.

What's your point?

In Elijah's era, the multitude of Israelites who worshiped the false god Baal was so great that faithful Israel narrowed to a mere seven thousand men (1 Kings 19:1-18; Rom 11:2-4) and the rest were excommunicated out of the Covenant forever. That faithful remnant at that time constituted ALL Israel, and from that time forward ONLY the descendants of those 7000 were Gods Covenanted Israel. The rest, again, were cut off forever.

God is calling these who were saved "remament"

Romans 11:3-6 King James Version (KJV)
3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Correct.

Scripture records numerous apostasies by--and subsequent excommunications of--seditious sons of Abraham, while a faithful remnant remained ... and through the remnant and the remnant alone, "All Israel" Carried on...

Examples may be multiplied: God struck down thousands of rebellious Israelites in the wilderness (Num 14:26-45; Num 21:5-9; Num 16:1-50), though the church was preserved and led to the Promised Land (Acts 7:38-45); In Isaiah's day, apostasy became so rampant that "All Israel" continued to exist through a small but faithful remnant (Isa 10:22-23; Isa 1:7-9; Rom 9:27-29); And again as mentioned above, in Elijah's era, the multitude of Israelites who worshiped the false god Baal was so great that "All Israel" narrowed to a mere seven thousand men (1 Kings 19:1-18; Rom 11:2-4). Lastly, the time we are discussing here, at the close of the Old Testamental age, Israel was again reduced to a small remnant of faithful elect ones (Rom 11:5). The Jewish Pharisees and temple rulers grew wicked to the point of killing God's holy Messiah and apostles (1 Thess 2:14-16), and throngs wanted Caesar as king instead of Messiah, the son of David (Jn 19:15). Then as in times past, "All Israel" survived and continued on EXCLUSIVELY through the faithful sons, the Nazarene Sect (The REMNANT), while the unfaithful apostates were "cut off" from among the people FOREVER.

 

[JackRT]

What's your point?

My point was The Jews did not kill Jesus.

 

[bcbsr]

How would His death be a sacrifice for all sin, if it were nothing more than the actions of an unruly mob...?

Christ was an innocent victim of unjustified suffering. God, being just, of course, was not involved in torturing Christ. God did not pretend that Christ was guilty and pour wrath on him, despite knowing that he was innocent.

How did his unjustified suffering pay for sin, you ask. While one arm of justice is to punish the wicked, the other arm of justice is to compensate victims of unjustified suffering. His compensation was paying for the sins of the world so that eternal life can be offered as a free gift by faith apart from works.

 

[bcbsr]

That is some statement. I find it hard to believe that God would purposely "torture" his own innocent son? If God needed Jesus's blood for a new covenant purpose then this could have been done without torture?

Yep, I agree. I'm with you.

Christ was an innocent victim of unjustified suffering. God, being just, of course, was not involved in torturing Christ. God did not pretend that Christ was guilty and pour wrath on him, despite knowing that he was innocent.

How did his unjustified suffering pay for sin? As I see it, while one arm of justice is to punish the wicked, the other arm of justice is to compensate victims of unjustified suffering. His compensation was paying for the sins of the world so that eternal life can be offered as a free gift by faith apart from works.

 

[bcbsr]

The only Jews who sought the death of Jesus were the High Priest and his inner circle of Sadducees and perhaps the Herodians. At that point in history the vast majority of Jews had never heard of Jesus. Any Jews who were aware of his execution probably mourned him in a sad, resigned sort of way as just another failed messiah.

You might want to read the gospel accounts.

Peter's sermon to the Jews on Pentecost, "This man was handed over to you by God’s set purpose and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross." Acts 2:22

Mt 27:22-25 Pilate said to them, "What then shall I do with Jesus who is called Christ?" They all said to him, "Let Him be crucified!" Then the governor said, "Why, what evil has He done?" But they cried out all the more, saying, "Let Him be crucified!" When Pilate saw that he could not prevail at all, but rather that a tumult was rising, he took water and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, "I am innocent of the blood of this just Person. You see to it."When Pilate saw that he was getting nowhere, but that instead an uproar was starting, he took water and washed his hands in front of the crowd. "I am innocent of this man’s blood," he said. "It is your responsibility!" All the people answered, "Let his blood be on us and on our children!"

 

[A71]

What is the point of this thread?
I mean seriously?

4 gospels, two of the greatest apostles, basically every major gospel writer tells us in no uncertain terms that the Jews killed Jesus; it is the epicentre of the new testament, and half of the people here are denying the fact.

Its pointless. You're all lost causes. Sorry.
No sugar to coat the truth

 

[Sabertooth]

4 gospels, two of the greatest apostles, basically every major gospel writer tells us in no uncertain terms that the Jews killed Jesus;

With the exception of Luke, all of the NT authors, themselves, were Jews, so they didn't hold that Jews were deserving of special punishment because of it...

 

[parousia70]

My point was The Jews did not kill Jesus.

Ok.. care to elaborate how this comment of yours about how many Jews accepted Messiah actually conveys that point?

Not "the Jews" --- certainly "some Jews" [accepted Messiah] and a small minority at that.

Because I don't see it.

 

[parousia70]

With the exception of Luke, all of the NT authors, themselves, were Jews, so they didn't hold that Jews were deserving of special punishment because of it...

As Faithful, Obedient Jews, those Authors (and Even Christ Himself) ABSOLUTELY held that APOSTATE Jews were indeed deserving of special Punishment for Rejecting Messiah.

Are we reading the same Bible?

Here's what My Bible says:

"Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites...you are the sons of them that killed the prophets. Fill up then the measure of your fathers. You serpents, generation of vipers, how will you flee from the judgment of hell? Therefore behold I send to you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them you will put to death and crucify, and some you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city: That upon you may come all the just blood that hath been shed upon the earth, from the blood of Abel the just, even unto the blood of Zacharias the son of Barachias, whom you killed between the temple and the altar. Amen I say to you, all these things shall come upon this generation. Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered together thy children, as the hen doth gather her chickens under her wings, and thou wouldest not? Behold, you house shall be left to you, desolate" (Matthew 23:29,33-38)

When He approached Jerusalem, He saw the city and wept over it, saying, "If you had known in this day, even you, the things which make for peace! But now they have been hidden from your eyes. For the days will come upon you when your enemies will throw up a barricade against you, and surround you and hem you in on every side, and they will level you to the ground and your children within you, and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not recognize the time of your visitation." (Luke 19:41-44)

"When therefore the Lord therefore of the vineyard comes, what will he do unto those vine-growers? They said unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will rent out his vineyard unto other vine-growers, who shall render him the fruits in their seasons. Jesus said unto them, Did you never read in the scriptures, 'The stone which the builders rejected, this became the chief corner stone: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?' Therefore say I unto you, the kingdom of God shall be taken away from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits of it. And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder. And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they understood that He was speaking about them." (Matthew 21:40-45)

 

[Sabertooth]

...APOSTATE Jews were indeed deserving of special Punishment for Rejecting Messiah.

The operating word being "apostate _______," not "_______ Jews."

 

[A71]

With the exception of Luke, all of the NT authors, themselves, were Jews, so they didn't hold that Jews were deserving of special punishment because of it...

The Jews were punished for apostasy. Their apostasy had been going on a long time. The reason why they were held to a higher account was that God first made an example of the apostasy of (Northern) Israel. That left Judah, Benjamin, and Jerusalem, which was the Levite city.
However Judah failed to heed the warning, and they too fell into apostasy. Instead of learning from the example of Northern Israel, they simply perpetuated the apostasies.
For reasons known only to God, but hinted at by Paul in Romans, the Jews were cursed, not for killing Christ, but failing to accept him in the 33 or so years, (40 in a sense), after his death and resurrection. (I say 'known only to God', but the terms are laid out in Leviticus and Deuteronomy. Paul however indicates that God's masterplan, which is hard for us to fathom, is at work.) That is why Peter told the Jews and Levites in Acts to turn to God in that time, the time of refreshing, the window to repent.

Perhaps it is more accurate to say that they were cursed for killing Christ, but simply by accepting Christ, the curse became instantly null and void. (It's late)

 

[parousia70]

The operating word being "apostate _______," not "_______ Jews."

Do you prefer "Apostate Israelite" to "Apostate Jew" then?
I'm good with that.

We know that its not Apostates in general here, since the "Apostate Japanese" and the "apostate Australian aboriginals" certainly didn't suffer the same fate, nor were they under the same covenantal curses, as the "Apostate Israelites" were.....

 

[dqhall]

The Jews were punished for apostasy. Their apostasy had been going on a long time. The reason why they were held to a higher account was that God first made an example of the apostasy of (Northern) Israel. That left Judah, Benjamin, and Jerusalem, which was the Levite city.
However Judah failed to heed the warning, and they too fell into apostasy. Instead of learning from the example of Northern Israel, they simply perpetuated the apostasies.
For reasons known only to God, but hinted at by Paul in Romans, the Jews were cursed, not for killing Christ, but failing to accept him in the 33 or so years, (40 in a sense), after his death and resurrection. (I say 'known only to God', but the terms are laid out in Leviticus and Deuteronomy. Paul however indicates that God's masterplan, which is hard for us to fathom, is at work.) That is why Peter told the Jews and Levites in Acts to turn to God in that time, the time of refreshing, the window to repent.

Perhaps it is more accurate to say that they were cursed for killing Christ, but simply by accepting Christ, the curse became instantly null and void. (It's late)

Jesus was Jewish, I would think many Jews have accomplished great things because they like Jesus and his disciples followed God. God would not kill people only because they are Jewish. Hitler was of the devil and that is why he killed Jews.

Jesus was visiting a Samaritan woman by a well when he told her, "Salvation is from the Jews (John 4:22).

Was Jesus killed because many hated God's commandment against murder? The Romans did not please God with their many false religions and idols. Many millions of Christians have been killed. It is not because they abandoned God. People who killed them were worse. Recently I have seen Muslims killing, converting and driving out Christians. It is not to be blamed on the Christians.

 

[A71]

The curses for apostasy are listed in Leviticus 26, and Deuteronomy 32. Go read them.

God frequently killed people for apostasy. Read the Old Testament.

The Jews perform a special role in the Church, if you really dig into Romans. God's ways are sometimes beyond our understanding. As clay we cannot argue with the potter.

The role of the Church and all Christians is to show mercy to the Jews.

The problem for the Jews, those who rejected Jesus, is that they left themself in bondage to the Law, and that is a very unforgiving place to be. The awesome
Good news is that any Jew, and by Jew these days We really mean somebody under Judaism rather than any tribal strain, enters a world of mercy and grace, and liberation, when they accept Jesus as Lord.

Regarding 20th century politics, you can find out more about Zionism in Germany at TrueTorahJews