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Did Someting Wrong to Find Out if I Was Right.

Discussion in 'Married Couples' started by ChristopherK, Jun 30, 2017.

  1. ChristopherK

    ChristopherK Member

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    Do you have a suggestion? I'm open to hearing it.
     
  2. DZoolander

    DZoolander Persnickety Member

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    I really wish I knew how to advise you on this thing. I had my own "can't win for losing" situation years back - and my solution was to leave it. I came to the conclusion (either rightly or wrongly) that if nothing could be done to fix the situation - that meant the other partner didn't want things fixed. How do you fight that?

    Given what you want to be the outcome - and given that belief - I don't really know any way of approaching it that doesn't amount to manipulative game playing/playing a form of relationship 'chicken'/etc...and all of that stands the very real chance of losing the relationship anyhow.

    Wish I had something better to say.
     
  3. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    I'm noticing something.....and I really hope (for your benefit) that you can see it as well.

    Your description here paints HER as "having an attitude"---but who was it that got irritated that another driver "cut into YOUR lane" before a merger and didn't let him in because you "don't like it when people do that"? Aren't BOTH drivers supposed to cooperate in merging lanes? Those are little opportunities to demonstrate patience and "living well with others". That may be a huge part of what she'd like for you to listen to her about. With respect.....if she's continually saying you aren't listening....you may wish to do a bit more introspection (people don't say that out of the blue---and it's when people are NOT listening--and get adamant about their belief that they ARE--that causes the other to shut down). I'd advise you to defend less and listen more (while she's still giving you information).
    That's not a good sign. That may have been her last attempt at communication :( Even from where I sit I can see her *trying* to "give you direction"---but you seem to be more intent on defending yourself.
     
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  4. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Christopher, I'm wary of giving easy advice for such difficult situations, but I would suggest telling her that she's been right and you finally "get it." Absolutely do not say anything suggesting that you were correct in the past or that she doesn't understand your view of things. None of that. And no theologizing. Do not lose your composure, no matter what the response is. If she doesn't seem too receptive, simply let it go, saying instead that you just wanted to say that you've given a lot of thought to what she's tried to tell you and you wanted to let her know that, period. Then see what happens in the following week.

    She must come to believe that the marriage is in her hands but that she must make a decision. She is in a good position at present, knowing that you are against a separation, such that she can go on drifting indefinitely while she enjoys the luxury of daydreaming about another possible lover and risking nothing in the process--your presence, your paycheck, her home, having to choose, etc. But you want her to realize this without being able to fall back on thinking you'll never change. Arguing back against her as happened in the past will be taken as evidence that you cannot.
     
  5. ChristopherK

    ChristopherK Member

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    I know what you mean here. I could've waited for that person to go ahead of me. The thing is though is that I've done other things that were a good example, but the problem is people tend to not remember the good and always harp on the bad moments. I would at least appreciate some feedback of thank for everything else that I've done. Remember it's been 9 months now.

    I took it upon myself to leave and stay with my parents until Friday because I wanted to show that I see how every little thing I do is just not well received and I'd rather leave her be away from the apartment than be home and possibly risk her being annoyed about something. I sleep on the couch and she sleeps in our bedroom. She just is not caring at this point regardless. That's why I've just been trying to rely on the Lord because only He can truly change her heart.
     
  6. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    About your profile picture, ChristopherK: do you think it's wise to be posting her picture on a public forum--without her permission (I'm assuming)--and at the same time sharing personal things about your marriage that aren't portraying her in the best light?
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2017
  7. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    That's not the point (or the problem, the way I see it). Even abusers throw in "good behavior" every now and then (that's what keeps people in the cycle of abuse). Your choice of words here shows a dismissal of her opinions (which actually lines up with her repeating that you aren't listening to her). When people are looking for a healthy change in another person---they look at the overall picture (and a few "bad" demonstrations can easily outweigh a "whole lot of good"). It really comes down to how a person responds under pressure (and that's not really an everyday occurrence....typically). You're having to "undue" things that turned her away from you.....and that's more difficult than working from a clean slate.

    Nine months isn't that long---especially if you've only shown her more of the same (and not any long-lasting change all throughout that time). Based on what you've posted here....she still has the same complaint (that you aren't listening). So you could flip that around, and look at it from HER perspective, that's she's given YOU 9 months (and she still isn't seeing any really change). To be honest......(blatant, maybe).....you don't sound like you're willing to be patient and understanding of her.

    Probably because she's not seeing any change. And people do reach their limits.

    I don't believe in that. I believe in free will (and God not interfering in that).
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2017
  8. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    Guide for Men Who Are Serious About Changing – Part 1 – Lundy Bancroft

     
  9. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    Do you see what I mean? This is justifying.....making excuses....
     
  10. Hetta

    Hetta I'll find my way home

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    Someone else has already said this, but how appropriate is it to post a real photo of you both in a public place while discussing what she writes in her private journal? What are the chances of someone who knows you both coming upon this? You may think not, but you may be surprised the number of "guests" who do not have accounts who read these forums, along with those who do have accounts. Would you post that photo around your town with the information about your wife's diary? If not, you really shouldn't have it here ... imo of course. Plus the fact that she may see it herself - a browser left open, or just browsing the web in general. I think that if my husband shared my private thoughts, along with a photo of me, with complete strangers, I would be outraged. And just ftr, if it needs to be said, I am a middle aged woman in a long term marriage.
     
  11. ChristopherK

    ChristopherK Member

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    Thanks for the wisdom. Pic has been changed.
     
  12. HannahT

    HannahT Newbie Supporter

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    I'm confused. If someone told me I wasn't listening I normally respond by asking what I'm not hearing. Then I would hush, and allow them to finish completely - no interruptions. At times it takes a while to hear what the person said, because they may go into rehashing things...but eventually they get to the point.

    You need to be careful not to be impatient while they are explaining. Nothing shuts down a conversation faster than someone with ants in their pants wanting to correct, comment, etc. It's distracting, and could very well come off as rude and NOT listening.

    I mean think about it. If someone feels unheard? Why would you get more than 'I don't know'. I mean it really doesn't matter what they say - they aren't going to be heard anyway. So, why bother?!

    I'm not saying you do this, but I remember a person in my life in the past. They would ask something from me, and when I would answer? They went out of their way to correct every single aspect of my speech. Most of it didn't matter, and had nothing to do with the substance of the conversation. For example, if I said - X happened Tuesday late morning, and I ...before I would finish my thought? lol I would be corrected that X actually happened after 12, and so technically it was afternoon. When it happened has nothing to do with the substance, and really wouldn't change if it happened late morning or afternoon...yet they just couldn't stop themselves from constantly correcting. lol if you have someone in a defensive mood? Then a fight would start about whether it was late morning, or afternoon - or about the fact that it really doesn't matter when it happened compared to them feeling it does. You basically get no where fast. They were to busy trying to RIGHT, and making sure the entire conversation was correct compared to listening to the substance. Not only do people lose their train of thought, but its annoying to be constantly interrupted over stuff like that. I would get exhausted just having the conversation with them, and I wouldn't want to continue - lol or have any future conversations with them.

    My point is it maybe your style of conversation that makes her feel unheard. The example above is one that I used with a person I knew once upon a time. Decent person overall, but they drove me nuts. Do I think they heard me most of the time? Nope. lol no doubt they would disagree too.

    Maybe approach your conversations with a different style. Pay attention to her cues of getting annoyed, and STOP doing whatever it is you are attempting for a moment. Allow the discussion to finish, and when you get the information you need? Then ask if something in your behavior was shutting her down.

    I'm old, and I have learned there are different ways to approach people to get what you need from conversations. Some parts are easy, some don't need any thought at all, and others need to me to step back and use patience. lol which isn't always easy!
     
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  13. sdmsanjose

    sdmsanjose Regular Member

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    Hi Christopher


    A recap:


    You mistreated your wife with verbal arguments about theology

    You have taken full responsibility for all you have done and have actively been different for the last 9 months

    You are now fully invested in repairing your marriage

    “She has actively been thinking about this other man and has said she doesn't see a future with me.”

    “She told me she wanted to separate back in November 2016.”

    “She doesn't confide in our Christian friends anymore. She only speaks to women from her job that have been in similar situations before.”

    “she said the bad outweighed the good when she would reflect on our marriage.”

    “She just is not caring at this point regardless.”

    You know and have admitted that you have wronged your wife and you are willing to try and get things right with your wife. Your wife has used you doing her wrong to not forgive you and for her to get involved with another man that is totally against marriage vows, scriptures, and every other standard about marriage.

    The first act that can get this marriage back to possibly being saved is for her to forgive you and never see or get involved with the other man under any circumstances. She is no longer to reject you, and replace you with some other man but to make you her one and only man.

    Not only has your wife refused to forgive you but she does not want to confide in Christian counsel anymore. That is because she wants her other man and does not want to allow Christian teachings to point out her unforgiveness and her desires for the other man.

    Christopher, I would suggest that you keep getting information on how you can improve your ways and then change for the better…However, you cannot reconcile your marriage by yourself; your wife has to change also…God has given your wife a free will and He is not going to force her to change. I hope that your wife does realize that she has violated the marriage and God’s plan for husband and wife and give forgiveness and change so that your family is restored…If she does not and goes to the other man then she will have broken the spiritual bond between you two and you can then choose your path. Others that have taken the path of betrayals and adultery can tell your wife all day long the long term dire consequences of her actions but it may take her suffering the realities of the consequences to be snapped out of her fantasies and unforgiving sin.

    Keep improving yourself and take the Christian approach with your wife but do not grovel or beg as you do not have to compromise in standing against her betrayal and lack of respect for you.


    Christopher, continue to build yourself up body, mind, and spirit as that can get you through whatever way your wife decides to go. In other words get yourself strong enough to live with her or without her. You can have a better life no matter which way she chooses.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2017
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  14. jameseb

    jameseb Smite me, O Mighty Smiter!

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    Really? She's having the emotional affair and somehow he's at fault?

    I've bit my tongue reading some of your posts in the past, but let me blunt now (as you apparently have no problem being)... I think the "advice" you often dish out (with hefty doses of self-righteousness and condescension) is quite honestly rude and even laced with some antipathy for men.

    How can you criticize this man for trying to honor his vow to God and hold his marriage together despite her loving another man? You are not privy to their conversations, yet you use all-caps and bold letters to indict him for not listening to her?

    I'm sorry, but some of your posts---like this one---rub me entirely the wrong way.
     
  15. OK Jeff

    OK Jeff Active Member

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    I agree with you jameseb, to a point. But far too often spouses are more Interested in being right than being happy. Anytime we get stuck in a rut of "I'm right so he/she should make the effort" we must ask ourselves "what outcome am I wanting?" If we reach a point where the other party is 100% wrong, and we are 100% right, then we're doomed. Because we can't change him/her. The only focus for a person wholly invested in reconciliation should be themselves and how can I improve the situation? The only things we can do to change them is deep, desperate prayer, and changing what they're reacting to. It's a big burden being right all the time.
     
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  16. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    I'm basing my posts on the assumption that Christopher is seeking opinions/advice. I'm "privy" to what he's shared here (as is everyone else that reads this thread).....and he's repeatedly mentioned the main issue comes down to her saying, "you aren't listening".

    When I read:

    "you aren't listening"

    and he says his response is:

    "yes I am"

    .....that tells me -- very simply -- that he's NOT *hearing* what she's trying to say.

    I would post the same thing no matter the gender of the poster. My responses have nothing to do with gender and everything to do with blind spots.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017
  17. ChristopherK

    ChristopherK Member

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    Sorry for not being on for so long. I was considering getting rid of my account for privacy concerns. Speaking of which, if anyone of you could let me know how I can change my name that would be great. I go to profile, but don't know where to make the change.

    All advice is welcome guys. I've been making an active effort to be conscious of my wife's needs and truly listen to what she needs since I came back from staying at my parents for a week 2 weeks ago. I asked her whether I've been honoring what she's needed since then and she's said yes.

    I don't know what to expect, honestly. She says she hasn't spoken to the man, and I choose to believe her. I don't know whether she's using me or what she's thinking. All I can do is being consistent in and of myself so that regardless what happens I can know that I fought for my marriage, and actively chose to love my wife throughout. Even her brother, who I'm close to, said, "Dude, I give it to you. I can't imagine what you're going through." I don't care what other people say around me, my heart is committed to our marriage making it.

    I told her last night, "I know that I may ask you questions sometimes and talk about us, but I haven't talked about myself. I say that because I can go for strings of days where I'm good and am trusting the Lord for our marriage, but other days I'm overwhelmed by thinking of what I put you through and analyzing 'I should've done this' or 'I should've seen that'. This weekend was one of those weekends where I really felt the weight of your heart being far from me and it just doesn't feel good. I want you to know that I'm in your corner. If you want to go on vacations or succeed in your work, go and do it. I love you and am praying the Lord has His way with our marriage." She didn't say anything, and I didn't expect her to.

    I told her a couple days ago that everything that has happened is my fault. I say that because as the husband I should've been aware of things early on, but I just didn't see it. I don't blame her for her sin, and I take responsibility for its culmination. I'm choosing to stay and fight because I know Jesus Christ and His love for me is steadfast and eternal. How can I not show the same love for my wife even if she never reciprocates it? God willing...however long it takes...she does turn her heart again to me.
     
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  18. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    Just put in a service request. One of the mods will do it for you.
     
  19. sdmsanjose

    sdmsanjose Regular Member

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    Quote of Christopher

    I told her a couple days ago that everything that has happened is my fault.

    Christopher


    You are doing a great job of seeking God for your situation and you are doing everything to get your wife back. However, you are so desperate to appease your wife that you tell her that everything is your fault. You are failing by allowing your wife to not be accountable and have given her an excuse for betraying you and the family. Nothing you did made her betray the marriage vows and God’s plan for marriage.


    You have made mistakes and have mentioned them in this thread but your wife is responsible for the following quotes by you:

    “Her recent journaling proved what I was suspecting which was that she is completely preoccupied with feelings of "love" for this other man form her job, and hasn't been thinking about us or our marriage”

    “She's actively been thinking about this other man and has said she doesn't see a future with me”

    “She told me she wanted to separate back in November 2016.”

    “She doesn't confide in our Christian friends anymore. She only speaks to women from her job that has been in similar situations before.”

    “She said the bad outweighed the good when she would reflect on our marriage.”

    “She just is not caring at this point regardless.”

    By you telling her that ALL is your entire fault you are an enabler. Whitewashing and taking the blame for her rejecting you and giving her affection to another man is not biblical. If she is holding on to resentments of you over past years then that is not biblical either.


    Own up to your own faults and change but enabling your wife to have an excuse for betrayal is going to back fire on you. If you want to take all the blame then that is completely your choice but that can make you an enabler and a door mat.
     
  20. ChristopherK

    ChristopherK Member

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    I understand. I'm just so hurt, man. She's on her phone half the time talking to multiple people and I text her once and don't even get a response.

    Her mom is staying with us until Saturday so I slept in our bed with my wife last night and it was so hard to sleep. I know it was hard for her too. I didn't expect her to say anything back, but I said, "It's hard to sleep because I feel like there are so many unspoken things that I feel haven't been addressed. I feel like you think you can do better than me while I'm doing everything I can for us. I never think of you that way, and it just hurts to think that you see me that way. I feel like I'm in the dark about a lot of things and I just want to know what's going on."

    We didn't really speak this morning. I'm so angry because she stays quiet and it's been 9 months. I know I put her through a lot with theological arguments but I've been consistent this whole time since then. Honestly, I think this has nothing to do with me but really with her and what she's going through. I feel like a spectator while all I want to do is hug her for an entire day and be there for her.

    I just want to know what to do now. I'm not giving up on our marriage-she knows that. But I also want to spark her interest again too. I go to the gym regularly, serve her at home, am beginning a better job this Monday, and am looking to attend acting classes (I'm an actor) on a regular, God willing.

    I've been praying that God would circumcise her heart as well as mine, but things keep getting worse. God is in control and His steadfast love endures forever. I just pray He'd include the redemption of our marriage.
     
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