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Did Paul consider himself a "sinner", are we supposed to think of ourselves as sinners...?

JacksBratt

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When the Lord "FORGAVE" you "SAVED" you and "QUICKENED" you and "DWELLS" within you...
ask yourself WHY.

WHY?........ because HE loved me and died for me before I even knew Him. Died for me, not because He knew I would accept His substitutional death, but so that I could accept it IF I choose to accept it.

He loved us first.

That's why...

As I have just said to another person here.. it's not likely you or I will change our stance on this topic... So, God bless.
 
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1stcenturylady

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If so... why would Paul use present tense "I am" when referring to himself as a sinner? He wasn't rebellious, we know that, but he also knew he could fall short because he... and us... still exist in a fallen state. We are not like Adam walking in the cool of the day with the Lord, but we 'will' be.

And don't misunderstand... I am not talking about the guy who witnessed to me in a bar 24 years ago while he downed 10 beers claiming, "I am forgiven for this." I am simply saying that while we aim at the proper target (the righteousness of God) we will simply, because we still exist in a fallen state, miss from time to time. That miss may come in the form of an overly emotional reaction to something or someone, judgement that enters the realm of condemning, and so forth. Things that are unintentional but still are not perfectly line with His will.

I am (present tense), probably because of his previous persecution of the Christians. He was presently the same man that did that and always would be, but he wasn't doing that anymore was he? Paul is the same person that also wrote we are dead to sin, and no longer in the flesh if we walk in the Spirit, which he now did. The Spirit makes all the difference, and without the Spirit we will always be in the flesh/carnality.
 
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Ken Rank

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I am (present tense), probably because of his previous persecution of the Christians. He was presently the same man that did that and always would be, but he wasn't doing that anymore was he? Paul is the same person that also wrote we are dead to sin, and no longer in the flesh if we walk in the Spirit, which he now did. The Spirit makes all the difference, and without the Spirit we will always be in the flesh/carnality.
What you have in the Spirit today is a downpayment toward more to come. Just go look at 2 Cor. 1:22 and 5:5... the Spirit is very plainly called an earnest, down payment or deposit depending on your translation. There is more to come!
 
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ToBeLoved

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I am (present tense), probably because of his previous persecution of the Christians. He was presently the same man that did that and always would be, but he wasn't doing that anymore was he? Paul is the same person that also wrote we are dead to sin, and no longer in the flesh if we walk in the Spirit, which he now did. The Spirit makes all the difference, and without the Spirit we will always be in the flesh/carnality.
But what does ‘dead to sin’ really mean?

Paul is not saying we don’t sin. Paul could have come straight out and said that.

What does it mean to be spiritually dead? Spiritual death is not having God. God doesn’t remove our relationship with Him when we sin.

You just don’t understand what Paul was saying.

Paul is saying we are dead to the consequences of spiritual death. Removal from God
 
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ToBeLoved

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I am (present tense), probably because of his previous persecution of the Christians. He was presently the same man that did that and always would be, but he wasn't doing that anymore was he? Paul is the same person that also wrote we are dead to sin, and no longer in the flesh if we walk in the Spirit, which he now did. The Spirit makes all the difference, and without the Spirit we will always be in the flesh/carnality.
so your argument is that Paul uses the present tense to describe a previous tense?

Paul was educated. He knew language and writing well.
 
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1stcenturylady

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What you have in the Spirit today is a downpayment toward more to come. Just go look at 2 Cor. 1:22 and 5:5... the Spirit is very plainly called an earnest, down payment or deposit depending on your translation. There is more to come!

Good, I'll take all I can get.
 
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1stcenturylady

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But what does ‘dead to sin’ really mean?

Paul is not saying we don’t sin. Paul could have come straight out and said that.

What does it mean to be spiritually dead? Spiritual death is not having God. God doesn’t remove our relationship with Him when we sin.

You just don’t understand what Paul was saying.

Paul is saying we are dead to the consequences of spiritual death. Removal from God

John said a Christian doesn't commit (willful) sin. But we all sin unknown sins even when we are walking in the Spirit, and the blood of Jesus cleanses them.
 
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ToBeLoved

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John said a Christian doesn't commit (willful) sin. But we all sin unknown sins even when we are walking in the Spirit, and the blood of Jesus cleanses them.
So you are saying that we commit sins that we never know we do?

I don’t think God doll divides sin into this willful sin vs non willful sin.



Man conveniently does that. In the OT they were held accountable for sin. Period.

Now are you saying God changed? Please share all the verses that delineate sin by willful vs non Willful.

I know very few verses that even talk about that subject
 
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1stcenturylady

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so your argument is that Paul uses the present tense to describe a previous tense?

Paul was educated. He knew language and writing well.

So, Paul was saying the Holy Spirit he was given had no power over sin?
 
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1stcenturylady

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So you are saying that we commit sins that we never know we do?

I don’t think God doll divides sin into this willful sin vs non willful sin.



Man conveniently does that. In the OT they were held accountable for sin. Period.

Now are you saying God changed? Please share all the verses that delineate sin by willful vs non Willful.

I know very few verses that even talk about that subject

Yes, God does, and in the OT as well. Presumptuous sin is willful sin.

Numbers 15

Laws Concerning Unintentional Sin
22 ‘If you sin unintentionally, and do not observe all these commandments which the Lord has spoken to Moses— 23 all that the Lord has commanded you by the hand of Moses, from the day the Lord gave commandment and onward throughout your generations— 24 then it will be, if it is unintentionally committed, without the knowledge of the congregation, that the whole congregation shall offer one young bull as a burnt offering, as a sweet aroma to the Lord, with its grain offering and its drink offering, according to the ordinance, and one kid of the goats as a sin offering. 25 So the priest shall make atonement for the whole congregation of the children of Israel, and it shall be forgiven them, for it was unintentional; they shall bring their offering, an offering made by fire to the Lord, and their sin offering before the Lord, for their unintended sin. 26 It shall be forgiven the whole congregation of the children of Israel and the stranger who dwells among them, because all the people did it unintentionally.

27 ‘And if a person sins unintentionally, then he shall bring a female goat in its first year as a sin offering. 28 So the priest shall make atonement for the person who sins unintentionally, when he sins unintentionally before the Lord, to make atonement for him; and it shall be forgiven him. 29 You shall have one law for him who sins unintentionally, for him who is native-born among the children of Israel and for the stranger who dwells among them.

Law Concerning Presumptuous Sin
30 ‘But the person who does anything presumptuously, whether he is native-born or a stranger, that one brings reproach on the Lord, and he shall be cut off from among his people. 31 Because he has despised the word of the Lord, and has broken His commandment, that person shall be completely cut off; his guilt shall be upon him.’”

Penalty for Violating the Sabbath
32 Now while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day. 33 And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation. 34 They put him under guard, because it had not been explained what should be done to him.

35 Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.” 36 So, as the Lord commanded Moses, all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with stones, and he died.
 
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ToBeLoved

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So, Paul was saying the Holy Spirit he was given had no power over sin?
God’s Word has been written on our hearts and He leads us in Truth and spiritual understanding. The Holy Spirit places on our hearts a desire to do God’s will in our conscience and spirit, but doesn’t prevent us from having our own free will tochoose. We still choose and do not always make the choice that is Holy. Jesus’ choices, all were Holy.
 
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SBC

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WHY?........ because HE loved me and died for me before I even knew Him. Died for me, not because He knew I would accept His substitutional death, but so that I could accept it IF I choose to accept it.

not because He knew I would accept His substitutional death

Disagree. Trust the Truth.

1 John 3 [20] ...God ...knoweth all things.
John 16: [30] ... thou (Jesus) knowest all things.

It is you who didn't know!

God Bless,
SBC
 
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1stcenturylady

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God’s Word has been written on our hearts and He leads us in Truth and spiritual understanding. The Holy Spirit places on our hearts a desire to do God’s will in our conscience and spirit, but doesn’t prevent us from having our own free will tochoose. We still choose and do not always make the choice that is Holy. Jesus’ choices, all were Holy.

I certainly agree we have free will, but the desire to sin has been broken.
 
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ToBeLoved

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Yes, God does, and in the OT as well. Presumptuous sin is willful sin.

Numbers 15

Laws Concerning Unintentional Sin
22 ‘If you sin unintentionally, and do not observe all these commandments which the Lord has spoken to Moses— 23 all that the Lord has commanded you by the hand of Moses, from the day the Lord gave commandment and onward throughout your generations— 24 then it will be, if it is unintentionally committed, without the knowledge of the congregation, that the whole congregation shall offer one young bull as a burnt offering, as a sweet aroma to the Lord, with its grain offering and its drink offering, according to the ordinance, and one kid of the goats as a sin offering. 25 So the priest shall make atonement for the whole congregation of the children of Israel, and it shall be forgiven them, for it was unintentional; they shall bring their offering, an offering made by fire to the Lord, and their sin offering before the Lord, for their unintended sin. 26 It shall be forgiven the whole congregation of the children of Israel and the stranger who dwells among them, because all the people did it unintentionally.

27 ‘And if a person sins unintentionally, then he shall bring a female goat in its first year as a sin offering. 28 So the priest shall make atonement for the person who sins unintentionally, when he sins unintentionally before the Lord, to make atonement for him; and it shall be forgiven him. 29 You shall have one law for him who sins unintentionally, for him who is native-born among the children of Israel and for the stranger who dwells among them.

Law Concerning Presumptuous Sin
30 ‘But the person who does anything presumptuously, whether he is native-born or a stranger, that one brings reproach on the Lord, and he shall be cut off from among his people. 31 Because he has despised the word of the Lord, and has broken His commandment, that person shall be completely cut off; his guilt shall be upon him.’”

Penalty for Violating the Sabbath
32 Now while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day. 33 And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation. 34 They put him under guard, because it had not been explained what should be done to him.

35 Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.” 36 So, as the Lord commanded Moses, all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with stones, and he died.
Old Covenant.
 
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JacksBratt

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Disagree. Trust the Truth.

1 John 3 [20] ...God ...knoweth all things.
John 16: [30] ... thou (Jesus) knowest all things.

It is you who didn't know!

God Bless,
SBC
You are agreeing then? I said that Jesus died for me "not because He knew I would accept it"

So, looking at the highlighted text from my quote, I have indicated that He Knew. Therefore I am stating that God knoweth all things and Thou (Jesus) knoweth all things. I am not contradicting either of these scriptures.

Let me ask you... would Christ have died if only one person was going to accept His gift of salvation?
 
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JacksBratt

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I certainly agree we have free will, but the desire to sin has been broken.
I wish that were so.

However, I still have the desires of the flesh.... all of them... Pride, sometimes, gluttony, sometimes, unrighteous anger, sometimes, lust, sometimes, lazy or sloth, sometimes, lie to avoid personal embarrassment, sometimes, ......

It is the power of the Holy Spirit that I tap into in order to overcome these desires. It is the power of the Holy Spirit that I ignore, sometimes, and sin.

Like I said before, I do not know and have not met ANY Christian... pastor, elder, deacon, regular church goer, speaker......layman Christian....... in my entire life, that has not sinned in my personal presence.

NONE that could stand before me, a mere man, and truthfully deny things that I have saw them do that are sins.

So, how are they going to stand before Christ, who knows all things seen and unseen and declare any differently?

In fact.... I'll bet you could take a class or grade 8 students, let them follow you around for a day and at the end..... they could point out sins you have committed.


You and any other Christian alive.
 
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JIMINZ

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But what does ‘dead to sin’ really mean?

Paul is not saying we don’t sin. Paul could have come straight out and said that.

What does it mean to be spiritually dead? Spiritual death is not having God. God doesn’t remove our relationship with Him when we sin.

You just don’t understand what Paul was saying.

Paul is saying we are dead to the consequences of spiritual death. Removal from God
.
Paul said we are Dead to sin, nowhere did he ever say we are Dead to the Consequences of Spiritual death.

You don't even understand the meaning of being Dead To Sin, and you accuse others of not understanding.

I guess that's your problem, you don't understand the concept, therefore you think people are saying something they are not.
 
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JIMINZ

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John said a Christian doesn't commit (willful) sin. But we all sin unknown sins even when we are walking in the Spirit, and the blood of Jesus cleanses them.
.
If you are going to quote Scripture, at least quote it correctly, without your interjections of belief.

Can you produce where John said what you say he said?
 
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