Did Paul consider himself a "sinner", are we supposed to think of ourselves as sinners...?

[1stcenturylady]

.
Lables, that's the solution.

If it quacks like a duck...

 

[JIMINZ]

If it quacks like a duck...

.
That duck could end up as supper.

 

[1stcenturylady]

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That duck could end up as supper.

Exactly! LOL But all kidding aside, that duck is on a dangerous path.

 

[JIMINZ]

Exactly! LOL But all kidding aside, that duck is on a dangerous path.

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Yaeh Calvinists are, that's right.

 

[1stcenturylady]

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Yaeh Calvinists are, that's right.

That I can agree with. LOL But why would you sound so much like them???

 

[JIMINZ]

That I can agree with. LOL But why would you sound so much like them???

.
I really don't understand why you would think so, what have I said that considers with Calvinest theology?

The only thing I know about Calvin is his doctrine of Predestination, which I disagree with.

I never heard of Calvin until I began coming to Christian sites, so I can honestly say I was not ever influenced by his teachings.

 

[1stcenturylady]

.
I really don't understand why you would think so, what have I said that considers with Calvinest theology?

The only thing I know about Calvin is his doctrine of Predestination, which I disagree with.

I never heard of Calvin until I began coming to Christian sites, so I can honestly say I was not ever influenced by his teachings.

They also do not believe in free will to choose Jesus. They call it "irresistable" They don't choose Jesus, they have no choice in the matter because they are predestined. When you started questioning free will that was when you seemed Calvinist to me. What do you believe about free will?

 

[JacksBratt]

What about you? What's your story? Do you willfully sin, or are you an overcomer?

Have I not said this enough, already?

Yes, I willfully sin from time to time and I also sin in other, what do you call them? Unwillful sins?

I am a Christian but I am not too proud to admit that I fall short.

This is why I am continually, in my normal prayer life, presenting these shortcomings to my savior and asking for forgiveness.

For pete's sake.... do RC's not go to "confession" regularly for their entire life?

At least you did admit "when, I may sin". That is encouraging to hear.....

 

[Ken Rank]

I will let God convict me if, and when, I may sin. And then I most certainly would turn away from that sin. It is not up to me to say I am sinless. God can examine my life and convict me. What about you? What's your story? Do you willfully sin, or are you an overcomer?

What you just said here is in agreement with what I have been saying to you for 5 posts. This is a little frustrating but it must be me who was not communicating well. You admit here that you "could" sin and if you do that either God will convict you or (and I am adding this) your own understanding of God's will through the Word will also convict you... and then you will turn away and learn from the mistake, doing your best not to repeat it. That is all I have ever said to you on this. Paul speaking in the present tense is an acknowledgment of what you just said here.

 

[Ken Rank]

Have I not said this enough, already?

Yes, I willfully sin from time to time and I also sin in other, what do you call them? Unwillful sins?

I am a Christian but I am not too proud to admit that I fall short.

This is why I am continually, in my normal prayer life, presenting these shortcomings to my savior and asking for forgiveness.

For pete's sake.... do RC's not go to "confession" regularly for their entire life?

At least you did admit "when, I may sin". That is encouraging to hear.....

Willful sin is rebellion... if you are in rebellion, that isn't even just sin anymore and indicates a desire to stand against God. Do you really knowingly go against God or is our language getting in the way of what you were trying to say? (Sometimes it does that )

 

[SBC]

Understanding - according to man ~ Misunderstanding - according to God.

1) Keeping in thought - God Knows ALL things -mankind does not
2) Mankind is born STANDING against God - period. Mankind is born NOT believing in God.
3) Mankind has a "choice" to "believe" in God - or not. That is man's freewill - period.

4) All of mankind shall HEAR of God - spreading for ALL to HEAR, IS a Believers service.
5) All who hear, ARE, being given a measure of Faith, BY Gods Word of Truth, ie calling.
6) Not all shall "believe" what they hear. Their "choice".

7) IF a man SHALL, "choose" to believe OR not, IS ALREADY KNOWN BY GOD.
8) How does God already KNOW, what a man SHALL choose?
9) God tells us HOW.

Jer 1 [5] Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

Ecc 1 [9] The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

10) God KNOWS you before you are naturally born. He KNOWS your "choices", IF you will "choose" Him, or not.
11) Some are "sanctified" in the womb, to serve Him, according to His Will.
12) Do "they" know their "destiny", for which God has chosen them to serve Him? no
13) Are they naturally born, SINLESS ? no.
14) Shall they "choose" God? Yes
15) Shall they "serve" God, according to Gods "purpose" ? Yes

16) That is "predestination". God KNOWS, before one is born. Man discovers it later.

17) So, are ALL called? Yes. If one has HEARD about Him, they have been called to hear.
18) IF one so called, denies believing. That is their "choice", to stand Against God.
19) IF one "chooses" to continue hearing - God increases - giving them faith.
20) IF one "chooses" to stop hearing - Thus also - their measure of faith stagnates.
21) IF one "chooses" to increase hearing - their measure of faith from God increases.

22) Can a man - hear be increased in faith - then deny and walk away - then return - then walk away - repeatedly? yes.
23) Each time they walk away, they do so BECAUSE, they have LOST FAITH.
24) As long as they are still walking in their physical alive body, this, "their choice", can be repeated over and over.

25) Salvation, is provided to every man. Salvation is provided BY, Jesus' pure BODY, dying for "eternal LIFE" to be given to every corrupt naturally born body".
26) The body of a man, WHO is in Standing WITH God, at the time of that physical body's death, IS a natural body, that SHALL receive, SALVATION, ie forever Life from God.

27) The body of a man, WHO is in Standing AGAINST God, at the time of that physical body's death, IS a natural body, that SHALL NOT receive, SALVATION, ie shall NOT receive forever Life from God. Such man shall forever have LOST his Salvation, that was provided for Him, but that he did not take/receive, BECAUSE he "chose" to NOT BELIEVE.

John 6
[51] I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

Heb 10
[10] By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

John 8
[24] I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

28) IF one dies IN THEIR SINS; they physically die, Standing Against God, and there is NO forgiveness given them thereafter.

29) What of the man WHO, believes, WHO continues to Hear, WHO continues to seek after Him? Again, such a man's faith, given him, by God, IS increased.
30) The man reaches a point in his physical life, TO TELL GOD, of his (man) BELIEF in God.
31) Big surprise to God? no. God has been waiting for the mans confession. As a matter of fact, God has already prepared, for the mans confession, and acts QUICKLY.
32) To do what?

33) Give the man SALVATION.
34) How?
35) Forgive the man, OF HIS, Standing AGAINST God, ie the mans SIN.
KILL the man's body of sin. Crucified with Christ, that Christ's pure body PAYS the debt for the man's corrupt body. Restores the mans soul. (salvation of his soul accomplished) Saved. Quickens the mans spirit. What spirit? The mans "natural" spirit. What is a mans natural spirit? Mans "natural" truth. Where is man's natural truth? In his mind?
no. In the man's heart. A corrupt heart? yes. A corrupt truth? yes.

God gives the man a "new heart". Called a "circumcision" of his heart.
God gives the man a "new spirit". Called a "spiritual spirit", a spirit, born of Gods Seed,
whereas the mans OLD "natural spirit", was born of a mans seed.
This is called "born again". It is mans spirit, being born OF Gods Seed.

Man with a NEW HEART, now has a NEW pure place, FOR the Spirit of God, to dwell within the man.
Man with a NEW Heart, is then accomplished to receive, God Seed, and become, born of God.
Gods SEED, Gods Holy SPIRIT OF TRUTH, thus thereafter, enters and indwells WITH the man FOREVER, which results in;
The man having RECEIVED;
FOREVER life, WITH God forever.
The mans SALVATION.
The man being BORN OF GOD.
The mans STANDING WITH GOD, forever.
The mans INABILITY to ever again SIN, ie STAND AGAINST GOD.
The mans ability to forever, converse, fellowship, with his spirit, to Gods Spirit, and Gods Spirit, to the mans spirit.

1 John 2
[12] ... your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.

Pss 23 [3] He restoreth my soul:

Ezek 18
[31] Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit:

Ezek 36
[26] A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

John 14
[16] And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
[17] Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
[26] But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost,
[23] Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

1 John 3
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his (Gods) seed remaineth in him: and he (man) cannot sin, because he (man) is born of God.


WHY? WHY can a man, NOT EVER AGAIN SIN?
WHY? WHY can a man, BORN OF GOD, NOT EVER AGAIN "STAND AGAINST GOD" ?

BECAUSE - Gods SEED, Gods Holy Spirit, IS FOREVER, with, and within the man!

So, WHY? WHY do MEN teach, THEY ARE BORN OF GOD, and testify they STILL SIN?

Because - They DO NOT -

John 14
[23] Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will
keep my (Jesus')words:
and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

WHOSE words ARE THEY KEEPING instead?

MAN'S WORDS!! ~ "words" of men, "words" that apply to unbelievers, "words" of corrupt pastors, "words" of philosophers, "words" of traditions of men, "words" of men without understanding, "words" their minds conjure up.

Rom 8 [7] .. the carnal mind is enmity against God:

2 Cor 3
[14] But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

Col 2
[8] Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

IF you LOVE the Lord, WHY do you continue, preaching, as the Blind, unknowing, philosophies, traditions, deceit of men?

ASK yourself, WHOM are you TRUSTING. Gods WORD, or words of men?

The TRUTH of God has been REVEALED, UNCOVERED, NO LONGER SECRET.
Speaking, testifying, IN GODS NAME, with men's words, IS NOT the WILL OF GOD.

Matt 7
[21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
[22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
[23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

HOW is a man speaking in the LORD'S NAME, "AGAINST" the LORD'S WORD?

He ISN'T, and WHY the Lord will REJECT HIM!

And clearly, it is NOT the WILL of God, for a man to TESTIFY, "AGAINST GOD", while the man "claims" to be "WITH GOD".

When God FORGIVES a man, of all SIN. The man can SIN NO MORE.
SIN IS standing against God!
A FORGIVEN MAN, HAS GOD within Him, FOREVER. God does NOT dwell in SIN.
THAT IS WHY, a man CAN NOT EVER SIN AGAIN.

To preach, and teach otherwise, IS AGAINST GOD.
And that which IS AGAINST GOD, is rejected BY GOD, as BEING AGAINST GOD.

Matt 12
30] He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

Some of you need to stop trusting men's words, and TRUST Gods words, that apply to you.

IF you ARE, the whosoever, that IS BORN of GOD, you CAN NOT EVER AGAIN SIN.

IF you ARE NOT, the whosoever, that IS BORN OF GOD, then "YOUR WORDS" of continuing to SIN, are TRUE.

You are NOT both. You ARE either or, born of God, OR NOT.

Believe in God. TRUST GOD. TRUST HIS WORDS. THAT IS the WILL of the Father.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[SBC]

Yes, I willfully sin from time to time and I also sin in other, what do you call them? Unwillful sins?

I am a Christian but I am not too proud to admit that I fall short.

Problem ~ Dilemma ~

ALL men have FALLEN (past tense) short.
Saved and Born Again men, have been forgiven ALL sin, ALL their having fallen short.
Saved and Born Again men, have the Spirit of God within them.
Their standing against God, ie their falling short, is no longer a capability.
Their LORDS SPIRIT dwells within them, Forever.
Their LORDS SPIRIT DOES NOT DWELL IN SIN.
Their LORDS SPIRIT, has given them FULL faithfulness Forever.

Are you claiming, YOUR LORDS SPIRIT, dwells within you, Having cleansed you, sanctified you, accounted you clean, acceptable to Him, but that His POWER within you,
is moot, and stands by WITHIN you, while continue to SIN and stand against Him?

Your LORD, within you, STANDS AGAINST HIMSELF?

Your LORD is in ERROR? You didn't really, become born of God? You didn't really OVERCOME the world?

But rather, regardless IF the Spirit of the Lord is IN YOU, "you" maintain, your "wilful" POWER, greater than HE, that you can "willfully" sin? God's word, is moot? His power IN YOU, is not greater than you?

1 John 5
[4] For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world:

1 John 4
[4] Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Trust Gods word over YOUR word.

1 John 3
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1 John 5
[1] Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God:

1 John 5
[4] For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world:

1 John 5
[18] We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not;

How do you claim to BE BORN OF GOD, AND SIN, when Gods Word, says the complete opposite?

Your word and Gods Word, are compete opposites.

God says to trust and believe HIS word OVER mans word.

Think about it.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[JacksBratt]

Willful sin is rebellion... if you are in rebellion, that isn't even just sin anymore and indicates a desire to stand against God. Do you really knowingly go against God or is our language getting in the way of what you were trying to say? (Sometimes it does that )

I am not in rebellion.... sheesh....

Am I the only guy here who can admit that, not only do I sin, but, sometimes I know I am but do it anyway? Whether anger, frustration, fatigue, or any other world based pressure....

But.... you know what.... I still strive, in my walk, to be a continually better person.

And, Christ forgives me when I fall.

I don't do things with the attitude "well, Christ will forgive me..." then go and sin.

I had a friend like that, when I was a kid.... He'd say "let's go do "X" and then we'll go to confession.

That is not my attitude.

 

[ToBeLoved]

They also do not believe in free will to choose Jesus. They call it "irresistable" They don't choose Jesus, they have no choice in the matter because they are predestined. When you started questioning free will that was when you seemed Calvinist to me. What do you believe about free will?

They believe the Holy Spirit fills them with faith to believe.

That’s the irresistible, but it is more like a takeover of free will.

 

[ToBeLoved]

What you just said here is in agreement with what I have been saying to you for 5 posts. This is a little frustrating but it must be me who was not communicating well. You admit here that you "could" sin and if you do that either God will convict you or (and I am adding this) your own understanding of God's will through the Word will also convict you... and then you will turn away and learn from the mistake, doing your best not to repeat it. That is all I have ever said to you on this. Paul speaking in the present tense is an acknowledgment of what you just said here.

How can a person who doesn’t sin need the Holy Spirits conviction after sin?

Is she talking hypothetically what she has seen others go through? And how does she know what conviction from the Holy Spirit is even like?

 

[ToBeLoved]

You said God did not see a difference in sin, even in the Old Covenant. I proved He did. And He still does, which is why Paul warned us about willful sins in Hebrews 6 and 10.

No. A different covenant means it has nothing to do with our covenant. A covenant is specific. We have Christ’s permanent forgiveness, they had temporary atonement and a high Lecitical priest between them and God.

We have a 24/7 Hotline to Jesus Christ.

They had they MUST obey all of the Law perfectly or are guilty of all of it.

 

[ToBeLoved]

You said God did not see a difference in sin, even in the Old Covenant. I proved He did. And He still does, which is why Paul warned us about willful sins in Hebrews 6 and 10.

Paul saved many Old Testament Hebrews and Jews.

Of course he would compare the covenants for them. That doesn’t mean it’s for New Covenant Gentiles? We were never under that covenant?

Paul knew the Old Covenant better than anyone being a former Pharisee

 

[Ken Rank]

I am not in rebellion.... sheesh....

Am I the only guy here who can admit that, not only do I sin, but, sometimes I know I am but do it anyway? Whether anger, frustration, fatigue, or any other world based pressure....

But.... you know what.... I still strive, in my walk, to be a continually better person.

And, Christ forgives me when I fall.

I don't do things with the attitude "well, Christ will forgive me..." then go and sin.

I had a friend like that, when I was a kid.... He'd say "let's go do "X" and then we'll go to confession.

That is not my attitude.

You misunderstood or I said it wrong... you said you "willfully sin" which means, as I understand those two words, means you KNOW what God wants and you purposefully chose another path instead. That is "willful sin" (deliberate sin) and that, by definition, is rebellion.

I sin, we all sin... for anyone to say they don't they lie or are ignorant of Scripture. But there is a difference between aiming at the mark and missing (the intent is still to hit the mark) or knowing the mark we are supposed to aim at and deliberately going after another target. The latter is rebellion and I was just hoping that wasn't the case with you.

 

[Ken Rank]

How can a person who doesn’t sin need the Holy Spirits conviction after sin?

Is she talking hypothetically what she has seen others go through? And how does she know what conviction from the Holy Spirit is even like?

Not sure... ask her. I generally encourage people NOT to make that their guide (alone) because God is not the only spirit that can whisper in our ears. I always say find an additional witness and in this case, use Scripture to define what is and is not sin. If God says, "Don't" and you "do" then that is sin.

 

[SBC]

I am not in rebellion.... sheesh....

Am I the only guy here who can admit that, not only do I sin, but, sometimes I know I am but do it anyway?

First of all, you ARE in rebellion. Your rebellion is not trusting Gods Word.

The Word of God teaches; IF you are forgiven, saved and born again - YOU CAN NOT SIN.

Your word, says YOU CAN SIN.

That IS rebellion, of believing your word OVER Gods Word.

YOU do that, BECAUSE, you read Scripture, of this, and that, which is called SIN.
YOU, read it and say, oh, oh, oh, "I do that".
So then YOU speak YOUR words, testifying, YOU "commit" Sin.

What you fail to understand IS;
All of those things you read in Scripture, called Sin, ARE Sin....

UNTIL, you are born of God.

A man NOT born of God....lies, gives presents, gets drunk, helps others, deceives, is kind to others, beats his family, works diligently, is mean to animals, treats animals with good care, provides necessities for his family, does not provide necessities for his family,
is helpful to a stranger, hates a stranger.

What you do not comprehend IS such a man; NOT BORN OF GOD;
1) IS NOT Forgiven "for" what "he", calls "not good behavior".
2) The man IS ALSO NOT forgiven "for" what "he", calls "good behavior".

Because NOTHING WHATSOEVER, so called, "good" or "bad", was done to GLORIFY God.

NOW - a man who IS, born of God, IS forgiven of ALL sin Against God.
NOW - a man who IS, born of God, CAN SIN NO MORE.
NOW - a man who IS, born of God -
1) all that he does "bad behavior", is NOT accounted as SIN, it is accounted as
FORGIVEN SIN.

Get the TRUTH in your thoughts - SIN is AGAINST GOD - FORGIVEN SIN is NOT AGAINST GOD.

2) all that he does "good behavior", is DONE, to Glorify God.

A man BORN OF GOD, can NOT commit, what IS Already Forgiven!!!

A man BORN of GOD, has Gods Spirit within Him. Gods Spirit dwells WITH forgiven "sinful" men, NOT with men who continue to SIN.

God has Forgiven all of your sin, Covered all of your sin, Forgotten all of your sin.
If you strive to be like minded, as Christ....
Why do you allow your minds thoughts, and your mouth to SPEAK against Gods Word?

Your job, is to listen to your Heart's thoughts, His Spirits TRUTH, His Word, in your heart.

Your job, is to stop listening to your minds thoughts, and MAKE your own mind, listen to your Heart, where the Spirit of Truth of God, is telling YOU, you are forgiven, you sin no more, His Power is KEEPING you in FORGIVEN SIN, Keeping you, WHOLE, wholly, body, soul, and spirit, IN FaithFULLNES, to Him only.

If you are WILL-FULLY, committing FORGIVEN sin, It is FORGIVEN...and guess what?
YOU are the one, who has to contend with "feeling bad".
That is your cue; you have been allowing your MINDS THOUGHTS to trump your Hearts thoughts.
That is your cue; get on the ball, take control over your Minds thoughts, which is simply a matter, of YOU, saying to your own MIND, whoa, wait a minute, "I need to consult with my hearts thoughts, with what God is feeding my spirit". Whoa, I need to DO whatever it is I want to do, that IT GLORIFIES GOD!

Rom 12
[2] And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

THAT is "your job". God didn't give you a NEW MIND. He gave you a NEW HEART. His Spirit dwells within your New Heart, feeding you, His Truth, with His Power, with His Wisdom, with His Understanding.....not "yours".

It is "your job", to make, your MIND, conform and be transformed....
"BY" what He gives you in your heart.

Practice it, and you WILL FIND, your mind, becoming subdued, relenting, conforming, transforming, to the Will of God.

THEN, shall you be able to say, you have a mind, LIKE Christ!

Until then, IF you proceed, with listening to your minds thoughts, and words, saying, YOU Continue to sin, you are in rebellion of trusting Gods Word, and that IS NOT the Will of God.

Think, comprehend, and allow your hearts thoughts to supersede your minds thoughts, and your mouth's testifying Against Gods Word.

Because;

Rom 8 [7] Because the carnal mind is enmity against God:

God Bless,
SBC