Did Paul consider himself a "sinner", are we supposed to think of ourselves as sinners...?

[1stcenturylady]

Old Covenant.

You said God did not see a difference in sin, even in the Old Covenant. I proved He did. And He still does, which is why Paul warned us about willful sins in Hebrews 6 and 10.

 

[JIMINZ]

I wish that were so.

However, I still have the desires of the flesh.... all of them... Pride, sometimes, gluttony, sometimes, unrighteous anger, sometimes, lust, sometimes, lazy or sloth, sometimes, lie to avoid personal embarrassment, sometimes, ......

It is the power of the Holy Spirit that I tap into in order to overcome these desires. It is the power of the Holy Spirit that I ignore, sometimes, and sin.

Do you Confess these sometimes sins?
Do you Repent of these reoccurring sometimes sins?

Your desires don't seem to be diminishing, by the power of the Holy Spirit, but your ignoring of Him does.

Repenting of sin is not, the saying "I'M Sorry"

It is the turning around from sin and not sinning again like Jesus said to the woman.

John 8:11
She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

And again Jesus said.

John 5:14
Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

Why would Jesus put such an impossibility on these people?

 

[1stcenturylady]

I wish that were so.

However, I still have the desires of the flesh.... all of them... Pride, sometimes, gluttony, sometimes, unrighteous anger, sometimes, lust, sometimes, lazy or sloth, sometimes, lie to avoid personal embarrassment, sometimes, ......

It is the power of the Holy Spirit that I tap into in order to overcome these desires. It is the power of the Holy Spirit that I ignore, sometimes, and sin.

Like I said before, I do not know and have not met ANY Christian... pastor, elder, deacon, regular church goer, speaker......layman Christian....... in my entire life, that has not sinned in my personal presence.

NONE that could stand before me, a mere man, and truthfully deny things that I have saw them do that are sins.

So, how are they going to stand before Christ, who knows all things seen and unseen and declare any differently?

In fact.... I'll bet you could take a class or grade 8 students, let them follow you around for a day and at the end..... they could point out sins you have committed.


You and any other Christian alive.

Yes, we have the ability to quench the Spirit, but as we mature in the Lord, we find the chastisement is worse than committing the sin, so you finally commit to not sin, and the power of the Spirit grows, it is called fruit.

 

[1stcenturylady]

.
If you are going to quote Scripture, at least quote it correctly, without your interjections of belief.

Can you produce where John said what you say he said?

1 John 1:7 "But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

 

[1stcenturylady]

.
How?

Is there Scripture to that effect?

Romans 6

How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin.

Romans 8:8-9

8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

Romans 8:2

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.

 

[JIMINZ]

Romans 6

How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin.

Romans 8:8-9

8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

Romans 8:2

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.

Where is the Scripture for the Free Will you spoke of?

 

[1stcenturylady]

Where is the Scripture for the Free Will you spoke of?

Free will is a modern term. But we are made in the likeness of God. We can choose who to serve.

15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned."

We can sin, or not sin. That is due to free will, or our choice.

Romans 6:15 Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

I would hope the above scripture should give anyone pause who believes we can willfully sin and the blood of Jesus automatically cleanses us from the consequences, like some believe.

 

[SBC]

You are agreeing then? I said that Jesus died for me "not because He knew I would accept it"

So, looking at the highlighted text from my quote, I have indicated that He Knew. Therefore I am stating that God knoweth all things and Thou (Jesus) knoweth all things. I am not contradicting either of these scriptures.

Your wording was confusing. Jesus' body was given unto death for the life of the world.
He knew you would accept. And that is why He called you.

Not saying you got a phone call or text, but rather at some point in your life, "something", gave you the urge to call on the Lord's Name and submit to Him.
That "something" was Him "calling" you.

Let me ask you... would Christ have died if only one person was going to accept His gift of salvation?

Scripture never says only one would, but rather few would. So, that requires no answer, that can not be supported by Scripture.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[JacksBratt]

Do you Confess these sometimes sins?
Do you Repent of these reoccurring sometimes sins?

Your desires don't seem to be diminishing, by the power of the Holy Spirit, but your ignoring of Him does.

Repenting of sin is not, the saying "I'M Sorry"

It is the turning around from sin and not sinning again like Jesus said to the woman.

John 8:11
She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

And again Jesus said.

John 5:14
Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

Why would Jesus put such an impossibility on these people?

Sorry I got you all worried... but note that I said that I still have the desires and that sometimes I fail to ignore them....

For goodness sake, I'm not running around like a sailor on one week leave after a year at sea (sorry, no disrespect to the sailors out there).

I live a Christian life. I am saved by the grace of God.... but I am still flesh and will be until I die.

Yes, I pray daily and ask for forgiveness for any of my sins that I remember and those that I forget.

The question is "DO YOU"?

 

[JacksBratt]

Yes, we have the ability to quench the Spirit, but as we mature in the Lord, we find the chastisement is worse than committing the sin, so you finally commit to not sin, and the power of the Spirit grows, it is called fruit.

Well, Do you confess any sins anymore? Or, are you so sinless that this is no longer a necessary part of your communication with God?

 

[JacksBratt]

Your wording was confusing. Jesus' body was given unto death for the life of the world.
He knew you would accept. And that is why He called you.

Not saying you got a phone call or text, but rather at some point in your life, "something", gave you the urge to call on the Lord's Name and submit to Him.
That "something" was Him "calling" you.

Is this "something" not urging everyone to call on His name. Does He not stand at everyone's door and knock?

Or are some people never given the chance or the time in their life where they feel the need and make the choice to ignore or accept the voice of Christ?

 

[SBC]

Is this "something" not urging everyone to call on His name. Does He not stand at everyone's door and knock?

Or are some people never given the chance or the time in their life where they feel the need and make the choice to ignore or accept the voice of Christ?

All are called. Not all shall respond. He already knows who will who will not.

Never given the chance? How so? It's a choice.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[JIMINZ]

.
I am trying to say this as clearly as I can, so there isn't any further Misunderstanding.

I have gone back through your post, and what I found is a discrepancy, either from you, or from your expert.

This is what you said.

As for, "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God," (1 John 3:9) A.T. Robertson states,

Below is your quote of A.T.Robertson

The present active infinitive hamartanein can only mean “and he cannot go on sinning,” as is true of hamartanei in 1Jo_3:8 and hamartanōn in 1Jo_3:6. For the aorist subjunctive to commit a sin see hamartēte and hamartēi in 1Jo_2:1. A great deal of false theology has grown out of a misunderstanding of the tense of hamartanein here. Paul has precisely John’s idea in Rom_6:1 epimenōmen tēi hamartiāi (shall we continue in sin, present active linear subjunctive) in contrast with hamartēsōmen in Rom_6:15 (shall we commit a sin, first aorist active subjunctive).

Now having verified for yourself that this is a true rendering of what you yourself posted, let me point out the discrepancy.

There is not one reference in his whole recitation, to the verse in Question.

1Jn. 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Therefore, unless there is another offering from him on this specific verse, then none of what you have previously posted (Above) is of any consequence.

 

[PeaceByJesus]

I am trying to say this as clearly as I can, so there isn't any further Misunderstanding.
I have gone back through your post, and what I found is a discrepancy, either from you, or from your expert.
This is what you said.
Below is your quote of A.T.Robertson
Now having verified for yourself that this is a true rendering of what you yourself posted, let me point out the discrepancy.
There is not one reference in his whole recitation, to the verse in Question.
1Jn. 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Meaning you see that this was in regards to v. 9, for I said in providing this quote,

As for, "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God," (1 John 3:9) A.T. Robertson states,...

And thus he says in the quote provided but which you also cannot see, The present active infinitive hamartanein can only mean “and he cannot go on sinning,” as is true of hamartanei in 1Jo_3:8 and hamartanōn in 1Jo_3:6.

Why is it that you cannot see that "he cannot go on sinning" is directly addressing the verse which says "doth not commit sin," a negative, not v.8 which states the positive, "He that committeth sin is of the devil?" But since the same connotation of "sinneth" the Greek applies in 1 John 3:6 and 8, thus he states, as is true of hamartanei in...

The entire comment on 1John 3:9 is,

1 John 3:9

Doeth no sin (hamartian ou poiei). Linear present active indicative as in 1Jo_3:4 like hamartanei in 1Jo_3:8. The child of God does not have the habit of sin.

His seed (sperma autou). God’s seed, “the divine principle of life” (Vincent). Cf. John 1.

And he cannot sin (kai ou dunatai hamartanein). This is a wrong translation, for this English naturally means “and he cannot commit sin” as if it were kai ou dunatai hamartein or hamartēsai (second aorist or first aorist active infinitive). The present active infinitive hamartanein can only mean “and he cannot go on sinning,” as is true of hamartanei in 1Jo_3:8 and hamartanōn in 1Jo_3:6. For the aorist subjunctive to commit a sin see hamartēte and hamartēi in 1Jo_2:1.

A great deal of false theology has grown out of a misunderstanding of the tense of hamartanein here. Paul has precisely John’s idea in Rom_6:1 epimenōmen tēi hamartiāi (shall we continue in sin, present active linear subjunctive) in contrast with hamartēsōmen in Rom_6:15 (shall we commit a sin, first aorist active subjunctive).

Therefore, unless there is another offering from him on this specific verse, then none of what you have previously posted (Above) is of any consequence.

Thus since you have a hard time even comprehending English and dismiss those who know Greek then none what you have previously posted (Above) is of any consequence. Still waiting though for what evil spirit said he did not know who A. T. Robertson was. Or were you speaking for it?

 

[JIMINZ]

Free will is a modern term. But we are made in the likeness of God. We can choose who to serve.

15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned."

We can sin, or not sin. That is due to free will, or our choice.

Romans 6:15 Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

I would hope the above scripture should give anyone pause who believes we can willfully sin and the blood of Jesus automatically cleanses us from the consequences, like some believe.

.
I fully understand what it is you are saying, but everything you have used to back up your belief is, Assumption, Supposition on what you believe the Scriptures say.

Mar 16:15 ,16
15) And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16) He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

The question is, if a Christian does in fact go into all the world Preaching the Gospel, and there are some who believe, and there were some who did not believe, can we automatically make the assumption, that the ones not believing did in fact make a choice to not believe, when they didn't believe in the first place?

They were just proceeding as they had before the Gospel was Preached, they weren't rejecting it, they weren't exerting their Free Will, they are Slaves to sin as you yourself have posted.

Rom 6:15-17
15) What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16) Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17) But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

The Scripture says.

Eph. 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Therefore the only assumption which can be made about the slave of sin not believing when the Gospel has been preached to him is, God' Grace was not ministered unto him in order that he could believe.

Believing isn't the process of exerting our Free Will, it is the process of God opening our ears to the truth of the Gospel by His Grace.

We are either a slave to sin (Our Old Man) or we are the slave of Righteousness (The New Man).

Eph. 4:24
And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Either way, we did not exert our Free Will to be either one, we were born into sin with a sinful Nature, and we are Born again unto the Spirit by the Grace of God.

 

[JIMINZ]

Meaning you see that this was in regards to v. 9, for I said in providing this quote,

As for, "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God," (1 John 3:9) A.T. Robertson states,...

And thus he says in the quote provided but which you also cannot see, The present active infinitive hamartanein can only mean “and he cannot go on sinning,” as is true of hamartanei in 1Jo_3:8 and hamartanōn in 1Jo_3:6.

Why is it that you cannot see that "he cannot go on sinning" is directly addressing the verse which says "doth not commit sin," a negative, not v.8 which states the positive, "He that committeth sin is of the devil?" But since the same connotation of "sinneth" the Greek applies in 1 John 3:6 and 8, thus he states, as is true of hamartanei in...

The entire comment on 1John 3:9 is,

1 John 3:9

Doeth no sin (hamartian ou poiei). Linear present active indicative as in 1Jo_3:4 like hamartanei in 1Jo_3:8. The child of God does not have the habit of sin.

His seed (sperma autou). God’s seed, “the divine principle of life” (Vincent). Cf. John 1.

And he cannot sin (kai ou dunatai hamartanein). This is a wrong translation, for this English naturally means “and he cannot commit sin” as if it were kai ou dunatai hamartein or hamartēsai (second aorist or first aorist active infinitive). The present active infinitive hamartanein can only mean “and he cannot go on sinning,” as is true of hamartanei in 1Jo_3:8 and hamartanōn in 1Jo_3:6. For the aorist subjunctive to commit a sin see hamartēte and hamartēi in 1Jo_2:1.

A great deal of false theology has grown out of a misunderstanding of the tense of hamartanein here. Paul has precisely John’s idea in Rom_6:1 epimenōmen tēi hamartiāi (shall we continue in sin, present active linear subjunctive) in contrast with hamartēsōmen in Rom_6:15 (shall we commit a sin, first aorist active subjunctive).

Thus since you have a hard time even comprehending English and dismiss those who know Greek then none what you have previously posted (Above) is of any consequence. Still waiting though for what evil spirit said he did not know who A. T. Robertson was. Or were you speaking for it?

.
Give it a break, it's how a Believer gets to the point of not sinning that you don't comprehend.

You don't even understand what it means why we do not sin.

 

[PeaceByJesus]

If so... why would Paul use present tense "I am" when referring to himself as a sinner? He wasn't rebellious, we know that, but he also knew he could fall short because he... and us... still exist in a fallen state. We are not like Adam walking in the cool of the day with the Lord, but we 'will' be.

If you are referring to Paul's statement that "This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief," (1 Timothy 1:15) then he is speaking, with hyperbole, in the historical sense as regards what he did do before conversion, and which he also does in other places, such as

Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; (Ephesians 3:8)

For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. (1 Corinthians 15:9)

For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it: (Galatians 1:13)

Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. (1 Timothy 1:13)

However, nowhere did Paul claim to have ceased from sinning at all, or to have otherwise "arrived"at perfection of character, and expressly denied the latter.

Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. (Philippians 3:13-15)

For that believers do sin (but repent when convicted of it), see earlier posts here, and here by God's grace.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Well, Do you confess any sins anymore? Or, are you so sinless that this is no longer a necessary part of your communication with God?

I will let God convict me if, and when, I may sin. And then I most certainly would turn away from that sin. It is not up to me to say I am sinless. God can examine my life and convict me. What about you? What's your story? Do you willfully sin, or are you an overcomer?

 

[1stcenturylady]

.
I fully understand what it is you are saying, but everything you have used to back up your belief is, Assumption, Supposition on what you believe the Scriptures say.

Mar 16:15 ,16
15) And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16) He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

The question is, if a Christian does in fact go into all the world Preaching the Gospel, and there are some who believe, and there were some who did not believe, can we automatically make the assumption, that the ones not believing did in fact make a choice to not believe, when they didn't believe in the first place?

They were just proceeding as they had before the Gospel was Preached, they weren't rejecting it, they weren't exerting their Free Will, they are Slaves to sin as you yourself have posted.

Rom 6:15-17
15) What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16) Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17) But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

The Scripture says.

Eph. 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Therefore the only assumption which can be made about the slave of sin not believing when the Gospel has been preached to him is, God' Grace was not ministered unto him in order that he could believe.

Believing isn't the process of exerting our Free Will, it is the process of God opening our ears to the truth of the Gospel by His Grace.

We are either a slave to sin (Our Old Man) or we are the slave of Righteousness (The New Man).

Eph. 4:24
And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Either way, we did not exert our Free Will to be either one, we were born into sin with a sinful Nature, and we are Born again unto the Spirit by the Grace of God.

That sounds like Calvinism doctrine.

 

[JIMINZ]

That sounds like Calvinism doctrine.

.
Lables, that's the solution.