Did Jesus go to Hades?

[Davy]

Where did the idea preaching Jesus preaching to people before the flood come from; that isn't implied anywhere. ( Though Noah was a preacher, 2nd Peter chapter 2.)

"Why would Jesus go to preach all of dead mankind knowing that none of them would be saved?"

The idea the gospel might not save lost sinners isn't scriptural. It saves many. If you like, read one mainstream view in post #53

It was first prophesied in Isaiah...

Isa 42:6-7
6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.
KJV

1 Peter 3:18-19
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
KJV

1 Peter 4:6
6 For, for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
KJV

 

[Davy]

According to the following verses there are no dead in hell, or anywhere else, believing and being led out.

Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Isaiah 26:14 They are dead, they shall not live; they are deceased, they shall not rise: therefore hast thou visited and destroyed them, and made all their memory to perish.
Psalms 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?
Psalms 88:10 Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee? Selah.
Psalms 88:11 Shall thy lovingkindness be declared in the grave? or thy faithfulness in destruction?
Ecclesiastes 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
Isaiah 38:18 For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.
John 9:4 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.​

I guess you have not studied The New Testament much then...

Luke 23:42-43
42 And he said unto Jesus, "Lord, remember me when Thou comest into Thy kingdom."
43 And Jesus said unto him, "Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with Me in paradise."
KJV

Matt 22:31-32
31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
32 "I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?" God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
KJV

Matt 17:1-3
17 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
2 And was transfigured before them: and His face did shine as the sun, and His raiment was white as the light.
3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with Him.
KJV

Luke 16:22-23
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
KJV

2 Cor 5:1-9
5 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
5 Now He That hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, Who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of Him.
KJV

 

[Der Alte]

I guess you have not studied The New Testament much then...
Luke 23:42-43
42 And he said unto Jesus, "Lord, remember me when Thou comest into Thy kingdom."
43 And Jesus said unto him, "Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with Me in paradise."
KJV
Matt 22:31-32
31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
32 "I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?" God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
KJV
Matt 17:1-3
17 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
2 And was transfigured before them: and His face did shine as the sun, and His raiment was white as the light.
3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with Him.
KJV
Luke 16:22-23
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
KJV
2 Cor 5:1-9
5 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
5 Now He That hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, Who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of Him.
KJV

I have studied the Bible both testaments in more than one language. I have taught through the Bible continuously for the past 10 years. None of the verses you posted say that Jesus went to the grave/hell and preached to any dead people or that any dead people were saved in/from the grave/hell. The following verses clearly show that there is no salvation in/from the grave/hell .

Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not anything neither have they any more a reward: for the memory of them is forgotten.
Isaiah 26:14 They are dead, they shall not live: they are deceased, they shall not rise: therefore hast thou visited and destroyed them and made all their memory to Perish.
Psalms 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?
Proverbs 24:20 for the evildoer has no future hope, and the lamp or the wicked will be snuffed out.
Psalms 88:10 Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead rise and praise thee? Selah.
Psalms 88:11 Shall thy loving kindness be declared in the grave? thy faithfulness in destruction?
Ecclesiastes 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
Isaiah 38:18 For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee:
they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.
John 9:41 must work the works of him that sent me. while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.​

 

[Davy]

I have studied the Bible both testaments in more than one language. I have taught through the Bible continuously for the past 10 years. None of the verses you posted say that Jesus went to the grave/hell and preached to any dead people or that any dead people were saved in/from the grave/hell. The following verses clearly show that there is no salvation in/from the grave/hell .

Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not anything neither have they any more a reward: for the memory of them is forgotten.
Isaiah 26:14 They are dead, they shall not live: they are deceased, they shall not rise: therefore hast thou visited and destroyed them and made all their memory to Perish.
Psalms 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?
Proverbs 24:20 for the evildoer has no future hope, and the lamp or the wicked will be snuffed out.
Psalms 88:10 Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead rise and praise thee? Selah.
Psalms 88:11 Shall thy loving kindness be declared in the grave? thy faithfulness in destruction?
Ecclesiastes 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
Isaiah 38:18 For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee:
they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.
John 9:41 must work the works of him that sent me. while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.​

What you're preaching is Old Testament doctrine about death and the grave, i.e., the JEWS' TRADITIONS of Judaism. I say Jew's traditions because they often don't even follow all the Old Testament writings either, like this...

Eccl 12:5-7
5 Also when they shall be afraid of that which is high, and fears shall be in the way, and the almond tree shall flourish, and the grasshopper shall be a burden, and desire shall fail: because man goeth to his long home, and the mourners go about the streets:

6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.
7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
KJV

In John 3 Lord Jesus contrasted the difference between flesh and spirit, and Nicodemus, a Jewish Pharisee didn't understand, obviously because of the traditions of the Jews. Jesus said that which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Apostle Paul further explained this difference in 2 Corinthians 5 when he said that if our flesh earthly house were dissolved, we have a BUILDING OF GOD, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens (2 Corinthians 5:1).

In Matthew 10:28, Jesus said to not fear those who can kill our body (flesh), but not our soul, but fear Him Who can kill both body (spiritual body) and soul in geenna (rendered "hell" in KJV, but is pointing to the future "lake of fire").

When these New Testament Truths are weighed in conjunction with that Eccl.12:5-7 Scripture, it reveals our flesh body is NOT our true self, but is only a shell God created for our spirit with the soul. Thus spirit-soul are together and cannot be separated, but our spirit-soul can be separated from our flesh. The severing of that "silver cord" for example, allows the separation of our flesh to go back to the earthly elements where it came from. But our spirit (with soul) continues on to The Father Who gave it, which in Luke 16 Lord Jesus showed that means one's spirit taken to Paradise in the heavenly dimension, on one side of the great gulf or the other.

The Jew's tradition on that "spirit" of Eccl.12 is according to their old belief about the flesh. Because of how Genesis 2 is written about God creating Adam a living soul, they assume that means the soul cannot exist without flesh, which led them to interpret the "spirit" going back to God as just being a force that all living things have, much like that 'spirit' is similar to a drop of water going back into the Great Ocean (symbolic for God). That in reality is what the occultists believe. They believe our soul is just a small drop of water separated from The Great All of the Cosmic, or Great Soul, and when we die our drop of water blends back into The Great All. Problem with that untruth is that 'we' as individuals would cease to exist.

The New Testament teaches how God actually created us with both a spirit with soul into a flesh shell. The flesh is ordained to perish, but our spirit with soul is ordained to eternal Life by being "born again" through Faith on His Son Jesus Christ, but only for those who believe on The Father through His Son Jesus Christ. Even after flesh death, for those who don't believe on Jesus Christ, there still exists a second death for them, but not a death of flesh again, but to their spirit with soul in the future "lake of fire".

 

[Der Alte]

I guess you have not studied The New Testament much then...
Luke 23:42-43
42 And he said unto Jesus, "Lord, remember me when Thou comest into Thy kingdom."
43 And Jesus said unto him, "Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with Me in paradise."
KJV
Matt 22:31-32
31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
32 "I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?" God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
KJV
Matt 17:1-3
17 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
2 And was transfigured before them: and His face did shine as the sun, and His raiment was white as the light.
3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with Him.
KJV
Luke 16:22-23
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
KJV
2 Cor 5:1-9
5 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
5 Now He That hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, Who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of Him.
KJV

I have studied the Bible both testaments in more than one language. I have taught through the Bible continuously for the past 10 years. None of the verses you posted say that Jesus went to the grave/hell and preached to any dead people or that any dead people were saved in/from the grave/hell.

Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not anything neither have they any more a reward: for the memory of them is forgotten.
Isaiah 26:14 They are dead, they shall not live: they are deceased, they shall not rise: therefore hast thou visited and destroyed them and made all their memory to Perish.
Psalms 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?
Proverbs 24:20 for the evildoer has no future hope, and the lamp or the wicked will be snuffed out.
Psalms 88:10 Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead rise and praise thee? Selah.
Psalms 88:11 Shall thy loving kindness be declared in the grave? thy faithfulness in destruction?
Ecclesiastes 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
Isaiah 38:18 For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.
John 9:41 I must work the works of him that sent me. while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.​

 

[Davy]

I have studied the Bible both testaments in more than one language. I have taught through the Bible continuously for the past 10 years. None of the verses you posted say that Jesus went to the grave/hell and preached to any dead people or that any dead people were saved in/from the grave/hell.

Thus saith the Jew's religion.

 

[Der Alte]

What you're preaching is Old Testament doctrine about death and the grave, i.e., the JEWS' TRADITIONS of Judaism. I say Jew's traditions because they often don't even follow all the Old Testament writings either, like this...
Eccl 12:5-7
5 Also when they shall be afraid of that which is high, and fears shall be in the way, and the almond tree shall flourish, and the grasshopper shall be a burden, and desire shall fail: because man goeth to his long home, and the mourners go about the streets:
6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.
7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
KJV
In John 3 Lord Jesus contrasted the difference between flesh and spirit, and Nicodemus, a Jewish Pharisee didn't understand, obviously because of the traditions of the Jews. Jesus said that which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Apostle Paul further explained this difference in 2 Corinthians 5 when he said that if our flesh earthly house were dissolved, we have a BUILDING OF GOD, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens (2 Corinthians 5:1).
In Matthew 10:28, Jesus said to not fear those who can kill our body (flesh), but not our soul, but fear Him Who can kill both body (spiritual body) and soul in geenna (rendered "hell" in KJV, but is pointing to the future "lake of fire").

When these New Testament Truths are weighed in conjunction with that Eccl.12:5-7 Scripture, it reveals our flesh body is NOT our true self, but is only a shell God created for our spirit with the soul. Thus spirit-soul are together and cannot be separated, but our spirit-soul can be separated from our flesh. The severing of that "silver cord" for example, allows the separation of our flesh to go back to the earthly elements where it came from. But our spirit (with soul) continues on to The Father Who gave it, which in Luke 16 Lord Jesus showed that means one's spirit taken to Paradise in the heavenly dimension, on one side of the great gulf or the other.
The Jew's tradition on that "spirit" of Eccl.12 is according to their old belief about the flesh. Because of how Genesis 2 is written about God creating Adam a living soul, they assume that means the soul cannot exist without flesh, which led them to interpret the "spirit" going back to God as just being a force that all living things have, much like that 'spirit' is similar to a drop of water going back into the Great Ocean (symbolic for God). That in reality is what the occultists believe. They believe our soul is just a small drop of water separated from The Great All of the Cosmic, or Great Soul, and when we die our drop of water blends back into The Great All. Problem with that untruth is that 'we' as individuals would cease to exist.
The New Testament teaches how God actually created us with both a spirit with soul into a flesh shell. The flesh is ordained to perish, but our spirit with soul is ordained to eternal Life by being "born again" through Faith on His Son Jesus Christ, but only for those who believe on The Father through His Son Jesus Christ. Even after flesh death, for those who don't believe on Jesus Christ, there still exists a second death for them, but not a death of flesh again, but to their spirit with soul in the future "lake of fire".

That is all mildly interesting but it does not address anything in my post and is off topic for this thread.

 

[Der Alte]

Thus saith the Jew's religion.

You don't know what you are talking about just repeating what someone has taught you.

 

[Davy]

You don't know what you are talking about just repeating what someone has taught you.

Ha ha, that's real... funny! especially after I showed the detail in Scripture in BOTH Old Testament AND New Testament Books!

It may not be obvious to others the falseness you are teaching about death and the grave, but it's very obvious to me. I study my Bible while others listening to you obviously do not.

 

[Davy]

That is all mildly interesting but it does not address anything in my post and is off topic for this thread.

Of course it would be "mildly interesting" to someone on the Jew's doctrine about death and the grave. And death and the grave is... what we have been discussing here, and I covered what God's Word reveals about it, particularly using examples in The New Testament, which you fail... to cover!

One would think someone claiming they've been preaching a long time with knowledge of Bible languages would be familiar with The New Testament writings about this matter! That's why I say you are in reality preaching the Jew's religious ideas instead from the Old Testament about death and the grave.

 

[Der Alte]

Of course it would be "mildly interesting" to someone on the Jew's doctrine about death and the grave. And death and the grave is... what we have been discussing here, and I covered what God's Word reveals about it, particularly using examples in The New Testament, which you fail... to cover!
One would think someone claiming they've been preaching a long time with knowledge of Bible languages would be familiar with The New Testament writings about this matter! That's why I say you are in reality preaching the Jew's religious ideas instead from the Old Testament about death and the grave.

In my post #85, above I quoted 9 verses, with no comments from me, which you blow off as "Jew's religion."
Nothing in the NT invalidates any of the scripture I posted.

Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not anything neither have they any more a reward: for the memory of them is forgotten.
Isaiah 26:14 They are dead, they shall not live: they are deceased, they shall not rise: therefore hast thou visited and destroyed them and made all their memory to Perish.
Psalms 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?
Proverbs 24:20 for the evildoer has no future hope, and the lamp or the wicked will be snuffed out.
Psalms 88:10 Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead rise and praise thee? Selah.
Psalms 88:11 Shall thy loving kindness be declared in the grave? thy faithfulness in destruction?
Ecclesiastes 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
Isaiah 38:18 For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.
John 9:4 I must work the works of him that sent me. while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.
Psalms 115:17
17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.
Psalms 88:5
5 Free among the dead, like the slain that lie in the grave, whom thou rememberest no more: and they are cut off from thy hand.
Proverbs 11:7
7 When a wicked man dieth, his expectation shall perish: and the hope of unjust men perisheth.​

 

[Paul4JC]

2 Peter 2:4 purposely used the word Tartarus which only points to Greek mythology and to the Watchers tradition of 1 Enoch.

Tartarus - The Abyss - Crystalinks

[2Pe 2:4 NIV] 4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell (Tartarus), putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment;

1 Enoch Chapter X 13. In those days they shall be led off to the abyss of fire: 〈and〉 to the torment and the prison in which they shall be confined for ever. And whosoever shall be condemned and destroyed will from thenceforth be bound together with them to the end of all generations. 15. And destroy all the spirits of the reprobate and the children of the Watchers, because they have wronged mankind.

1 Enoch Chapter XVIII 14. The angel said: 'This place is the end of heaven and earth: this has become a prison for the stars and the host of heaven. 15. And the stars which roll over the fire are they which have transgressed the commandment of the Lord in the beginning of their rising, because they did not come forth at their appointed times.

This is also clearly alluded by Jude:

[Jde 1:6, 13 NIV] 6 And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling--these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day. ... 13 They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shame; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever.