Did Jesus go to Hades?

[Halbhh]

Are you reading my posts?
The idea of "Jesus preaching to people before the flood" comes from 1 Pet 3:18
"[Jesus] went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison...they formerly did not obey, in the days of Noah... eight persons, were brought safely through water."
This passage is not about 2 or more separate events.

1 Peter 3:18-20
18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit,
19 in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison,
20 because they formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water.
1 Peter 4:5-6
5 But they will have to give account to him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.
6 For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to human standards in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit.​

As some folks interpret this passage the gospel was preached to dead people who then live according to God.

The "spirits in prison" include at least some (if not all) of the people that perished in the Flood (1 Peter chapter 3). They are the "dead" referred to in chapter 4, to which the gospel was preached, as the text says.

Trying to read a mainstream interpretation of who might be saved among the various dead -- as you can read in the Catholic Catechism section linked in post #53, the Catholic idea is that only the "just" among the dead would then be saved at that moment, by Christ preaching to them the gospel.

As I noted at the end of post #53 above, those that could be saved (among the various dead) aren't likely to be thought of as sinless, but rather those who are blameless in the sense that they are repentant (as pointed to in post #53 above), and since they are repentant, Christ would save them. That's a kind of reasonable estimate/guess as I see it. As to whether the Catholic idea is correct (that only the "just" among the dead alone were saved), we can only say it is a reasonable possibility and at least doesn't directly contradict scripture in general (we know that the repentant can be saved).

 

[Paul4JC]

The “spirits in prison” are not humans.

humans are not spirit - we have spirits, but we are not spirits.

Angels, however, are spirits

Hebrews 1:14
Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

The “spirits in prisons” are angels.


2 Peter 2:4
For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to Tartarus, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Jude 1:6
And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day

Yes that's what I said too... post #9

 

[Dkh587]

Why would he make proclamation to antediluvian people and not postdiluvian OT dead? That's not what this text is about.

To keep in context of Peter read [2Pe 2:4 NIV] 4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell (Tartarus), putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment;

They are translating Tartarus as hell, but hell is Hades [Luke 16:23]. Tartarus is only used once in the Bible, and it's here.

He made proclamation to these in Tartarus.

"5020 (tartaróō) is a Greek name for the under-world, especially the abode of the damned – hence to cast into hell" (A-S); to send into the subterranean abyss reserved for demons and the dead.

There's Hades(OT Sheol), (Gehanna), Tartarus, and the Abyss. Translators are mixing up words when calling everything hell.

[Jde 1:6 NIV] 6 And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling--these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.

These are the same of the “imprisoned spirits” and [1Pe 3:19-20 NIV] “those who were disobedient long ago”

Christ also took the keys of death and hell and that’s what his proclamation was about. [Rev 1:18 NIV] I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

It is worth mentioning, that in the Septuagint, tartarus is used in the book of Job.

I can’t find where I got this from originally, but I screenshotted it

 

[Paul4JC]

It is worth mentioning, that in the Septuagint, tartarus is used in the book of Job.

I can’t find where I got this from originally, but I screenshotted it

Cool....will check that out.

 

[Der Alte]

***

<Halbhh>The "spirits in prison" include at least some (if not all) of the people that perished in the Flood (1 Peter chapter 3). They are the "dead" referred to in chapter 4, to which the gospel was preached, as the text says.
Trying to read a mainstream interpretation of who might be saved among the various dead -- as you can read in the Catholic Catechism section linked in post #53, the Catholic idea is that only the "just" among the dead would then be saved at that moment, by Christ preaching to them the gospel.
As I noted at the end of post #53 above, those that could be saved (among the various dead) aren't likely to be thought of as sinless, but rather those who are blameless in the sense that they are repentant (as pointed to in post #53 above), and since they are repentant, Christ would save them. That's a kind of reasonable estimate/guess as I see it. As to whether the Catholic idea is correct (that only the "just" among the dead alone were saved), we can only say it is a reasonable possibility and at least doesn't directly contradict scripture in general (we know that the repentant can be saved).<Halbhh>

***

I don't need to read any interpretation I read both Biblical languages and I have the major Hebrew and Greek grammars and lexicons in my own library.
According to the following verses there are no dead, of any kind, spirit, angel human beings etc. in hell, or anywhere else, believing and being saved.

Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Isaiah 26:14 They are dead, they shall not live; they are deceased, they shall not rise: therefore hast thou visited and destroyed them, and made all their memory to perish.
Psalms 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?
Proverbs 24:20 for the evildoer has no future hope, and the lamp of the wicked will be snuffed out.
Psalms 88:10 Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee? Selah.
Psalms 88:11 Shall thy lovingkindness be declared in the grave? or thy faithfulness in destruction?
Ecclesiastes 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
Isaiah 38:18 For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.
John 9:4 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.​

 

[Der Alte]

***

It is worth mentioning, that in the Septuagint, tartarus is used in the book of Job.
I can’t find where I got this from originally, but I screenshotted it

Suspect source. Jehovah Witnesses.

In Job 40:15 (40:20, LXX) we read concerning Behemoth: “And when he has gone up to a steep mountain, he causes joy to the quadrupeds in the deep [ἐν τῷ ταρτάρῳ (“in the tartarus”)].” In Job 41:31, 32 (41:23, 24, LXX) we read concerning Leviathan: “He makes the deep boil like a brazen caldron; and he regards the sea as a pot of ointment, and the lowest part of the deep [τὸν δὲ τάρταρον τῆς ἀβύσσου (“the tartarus of the abyss”)] as a captive: he reckons the deep as his range.” The use of tarʹta·ros in these verses in LXX makes it plain that the word was used to signify a low place, yes, the “lowest part” of the abyss.—Compare 2Pe 2:4 ftn.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1001060091

​

 

[Dkh587]

Suspect source. Jehovah Witnesses.

In Job 40:15 (40:20, LXX) we read concerning Behemoth: “And when he has gone up to a steep mountain, he causes joy to the quadrupeds in the deep [ἐν τῷ ταρτάρῳ (“in the tartarus”)].” In Job 41:31, 32 (41:23, 24, LXX) we read concerning Leviathan: “He makes the deep boil like a brazen caldron; and he regards the sea as a pot of ointment, and the lowest part of the deep [τὸν δὲ τάρταρον τῆς ἀβύσσου (“the tartarus of the abyss”)] as a captive: he reckons the deep as his range.” The use of tarʹta·ros in these verses in LXX makes it plain that the word was used to signify a low place, yes, the “lowest part” of the abyss.—Compare 2Pe 2:4 ftn.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1001060091

​

That is where I got it from. Thank you!

Is what they wrote wrong? it seems to check out (the part I posted)

 

[Halbhh]

<Halbhh>The "spirits in prison" include at least some (if not all) of the people that perished in the Flood (1 Peter chapter 3). They are the "dead" referred to in chapter 4, to which the gospel was preached, as the text says.
Trying to read a mainstream interpretation of who might be saved among the various dead -- as you can read in the Catholic Catechism section linked in post #53, the Catholic idea is that only the "just" among the dead would then be saved at that moment, by Christ preaching to them the gospel.
As I noted at the end of post #53 above, those that could be saved (among the various dead) aren't likely to be thought of as sinless, but rather those who are blameless in the sense that they are repentant (as pointed to in post #53 above), and since they are repentant, Christ would save them. That's a kind of reasonable estimate/guess as I see it. As to whether the Catholic idea is correct (that only the "just" among the dead alone were saved), we can only say it is a reasonable possibility and at least doesn't directly contradict scripture in general (we know that the repentant can be saved).<Halbhh>
I don't need to read any interpretation I read both Biblical languages and I have the major Hebrew and Greek grammars and lexicons in my own library.
According to the following verses there are no dead, of any kind, spirit, angel human beings etc. in hell, or anywhere else, believing and being saved.

Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Isaiah 26:14 They are dead, they shall not live; they are deceased, they shall not rise: therefore hast thou visited and destroyed them, and made all their memory to perish.
Psalms 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?
Proverbs 24:20 for the evildoer has no future hope, and the lamp of the wicked will be snuffed out.
Psalms 88:10 Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee? Selah.
Psalms 88:11 Shall thy lovingkindness be declared in the grave? or thy faithfulness in destruction?
Ecclesiastes 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
Isaiah 38:18 For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.
John 9:4 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.​

Of course Truth A doesn't cancel Truth B. The dead come to Life as Christ said in Luke 15. But, Stay silent in your mind as you read and listen, and then we read fully through with a humble listening, and better hear the messages. I won't argue about scripture, since we all must obey Romans 14 if we believe. God bless and have a good day.

 

[Der Alte]

Of course Truth A doesn't cancel Truth B. The dead come to Life as Christ said in Luke 15. But, Stay silent in your mind as you read and listen, and then we read fully through with a humble listening, and better hear the messages. I won't argue about scripture, since we all must obey Romans 14 if we believe. God bless and have a good day.

Your "truth" does not cancel the truth of the several verses I quoted. Jesus did NOT preach to any dead humans, angels, spirits in hell. Maybe you can show me a verses which shows the dead being preached to then repenting.

 

[Halbhh]

Your "truth" does not cancel the truth of the several verses I quoted. Jesus did NOT preach to any dead humans, angels, spirits in hell. Maybe you can show me a verses which shows the dead being preached to then repenting.

1 Peter 4:6 That is why the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged as men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

Which we can only understand in context/rightly by listening fully -- humbleness -- thus reading fully through the entirety of all of 1rst Peter with a listening attitude, that is humble enough to truly listen, and therefore learn from the Word.

Instead of me or you being the Teacher, only He is.

That's why we must humbly listen to Him, instead of to our preferred ideas and our own talking. (education, doctrines, churches, preachers, our own mental talk, etc.)

A doctrine can be a way to talk over Him, in order to ignore something we'd rather not hear.

A good student doesn't talk over the Teacher, but learns from Him by listening to Him.

Therefore, put aside doctrines, noise, distractions, agendas, and truly listen, with all of your attention, and with humble faith, you will have 'ears that hear', and will hear His messages instead of only what you already know.

 

[Der Alte]

1 Peter 4:6 That is why the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged as men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
Which we can only understand in context/rightly by listening fully -- humbleness -- thus reading fully through the entirety of all of 1rst Peter with a listening attitude, that is humble enough to truly listen, and therefore learn from the Word.
Instead of me or you being the Teacher, only He is.
That's why we must humbly listen to Him, instead of to our preferred ideas and our own talking. (education, doctrines, churches, preachers, our own mental talk, etc.)
A doctrine can be a way to talk over Him, in order to ignore something we'd rather not hear.
A good student doesn't talk over the Teacher, but learns from Him by listening to Him.

I'm beginning to see the complete disconnect here. You are NOT reading my posts you single out a phrase or two and repeat the same argument and lecture over and over and over as if repetition will somehow make it logical.

1 Peter 4:6 That is why the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged as men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.​

Please show me where the dead are ever judged as men then "live" according to God?
I have posted several verses which clearly show there is no, zero, none salvation after death.
I can repeat this as many times as necessary until you understand it.
You might want to acquaint yourself with the subjunctive mood in Greek and the verb κριθωσιν.

 

[Halbhh]

I'm beginning to see the complete disconnect here. You are NOT reading my posts you single out a phrase or two and repeat the same argument and lecture over and over and over as if repetition will somehow make it logical.

1 Peter 4:6 That is why the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged as men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.​

Please show me where the dead are ever judged as men then "live" according to God?
I have posted several verses which clearly show there is no, zero, none salvation after death.
I can repeat this as many times as necessary until you understand it.
You might want to acquaint yourself with the subjunctive mood in Greek and the verb κριθωσιν.

I sincerely do not need your teaching, because I really do listen to Christ, and I have read very many commentaries also. At this point I've read almost every book in the bible at least 3 times, and many 4 or more times, but with listening now, which makes all the difference. (Now, if your goal is to discuss with someone in a non-disputing and friendly way you have to work to be more friendly in my view. I will not violate the instruction of Romans 14:1 Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on his opinions. and merely argue with you. )

Please be careful to practice what you preach! (we all should!)

I honestly wish you well, and hope you have a great day.

 

[Halbhh]

For anyone that would want to see commentaries on 1rst Peter verses in question, they are freely available and can be seen instantly.

For instance here are many commentaries in one site:

1 Peter 4:6 Commentaries: For the gospel has for this purpose been preached even to those who are dead, that though they are judged in the flesh as men, they may live in the spirit according to the will of God.

 

[mlepfitjw]

Jesus Christ is the teacher, and if we listen to Him we shall never be lead astray. Hablhh. We are to live humbly and gentle among believers staying united with the unity of the spirit, and forgive others of their faults, as well as our own. That means even people who might differ with us doctrinally.

Am personally a believer of not having anyone over us to demand we should do this or do that, but to prayerfully search the scriptures and learn what God has to say to us and teach us. All people can understand the scriptures if they are a born-again believer and the holy spirit with them reminds them of the things they learned. They will need no one over them for they have placed Christ Jesus - The High Priest - The Lord And Saviour - The Son of God as the head.

The rest of us as believers all have different functions that God will use us for.

We do not lordship over any one, we encourage others instead.

2 Corinthians 1:24 Not that we have lordship over your faith, but are helpers of your joy: for in faith ye stand fast.

Ephesians 4: 2 Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love. 3 Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace. 4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

 

[mlepfitjw]

Did you find out your answer? Did Jesus Christ go to hades? Hablhh * It wouldn't let me connect you

 

[Halbhh]

Did you find out your answer? Did Jesus Christ go to hades? Hablhh * It wouldn't let me connect you

Are you asking me? Yes, I did find the main part of the answer quite a while back. I wrote a post giving some of it above in post #3 early in this thread. Thanks for that wonderful post just above!

 

[RDKirk]

Why would he make proclamation to antediluvian people and not postdiluvian OT dead? That's not what this text is about.

To keep in context of Peter read [2Pe 2:4 NIV] 4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell (Tartarus), putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment;

They are translating Tartarus as hell, but hell is Hades [Luke 16:23]. Tartarus is only used once in the Bible, and it's here.

He made proclamation to these in Tartarus.

"5020 (tartaróō) is a Greek name for the under-world, especially the abode of the damned – hence to cast into hell" (A-S); to send into the subterranean abyss reserved for demons and the dead.

Yes. Tartarus, in the manner Peter's Greek audience would understand it, was specifically a place prepared for the imprisonment of spiritual beings (the "old gods" of their pantheon). I believe it was Peter's intent to specify that there was a distinct eternal prison for Satan and his demons, different from that of lost human spirits.

There's Hades(OT Sheol), (Gehanna), Tartarus, and the Abyss. Translators are mixing up words when calling everything hell.

[Jde 1:6 NIV] 6 And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling--these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.

These are the same of the “imprisoned spirits” and [1Pe 3:19-20 NIV] “those who were disobedient long ago”

Christ also took the keys of death and hell and that’s what his proclamation was about. [Rev 1:18 NIV] I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

Yes. If you do a word study through the New Testament noting where hades and gehenna are used in context, the context consistently implies that hades is a temporary grave or holding place (which is how the Greek audience already understood the word), while gehenna is used consistently in the context of etermal (or continuing) destruction. Some translations use the term "hellfire" for gehenna to distinguish it from "hell" when hades was used in the text.

 

[Der Alte]

I sincerely do not need your teaching, because I really do listen to Christ, and I have read very many commentaries also. At this point I've read almost every book in the bible at least 3 times, and many 4 or more times, but with listening now, which makes all the difference. (Now, if your goal is to discuss with someone in a non-disputing and friendly way you have to work to be more friendly in my view. I will not violate the instruction of Romans 14:1 Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on his opinions. and merely argue with you. ) Please be careful to practice what you preach! (we all should!)
I honestly wish you well, and hope you have a great day.

Nice evasion there, didn't answer my question.

Please show me where the dead are ever judged as men then "live" according to God?
I have posted several verses which clearly show there is no, zero, none salvation after death.​

 

[Halbhh]

Nice evasion there, didn't answer my question.

Please show me where the dead are ever judged as men then "live" according to God?
I have posted several verses which clearly show there is no, zero, none salvation after death.​

"Nice evasion there, didn't answer my question."
^^^
I think that's about going over the line.

It's sinful to try to be merely contentious.

So, to help you avoid that temptation, I won't respond to any more unfriendly posts, because it is not good for you if I let you be hostile as just a normal way to converse.

 

[Paul4JC]

Yes. Tartarus, in the manner Peter's Greek audience would understand it, was specifically a place prepared for the imprisonment of spiritual beings (the "old gods" of their pantheon). I believe it was Peter's intent to specify that there was a distinct eternal prison for Satan and his demons, different from that of lost human spirits.



Yes. If you do a word study through the New Testament noting where hades and gehenna are used in context, the context consistently implies that hades is a temporary grave or holding place (which is how the Greek audience already understood the word), while gehenna is used consistently in the context of etermal (or continuing) destruction. Some translations use the term "hellfire" for gehenna to distinguish it from "hell" when hades was used in the text.

It is mind boggling the scope of of the Lord Jesus' descent.