Did Jesus go to Hades?

[fli]

1 Peter 3:19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison NKJV

There is a controversy over the above passage. Peter seems to be saying that Jesus went to hell and preached.

Eph 4:9 (Now this, "He ascended" — what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth? NKJV

Paul seems to be in agreement.

Luke 23:43 And Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise." NKJV

Jesus told the thief who died with Him that they would both be in paradise the day they died.

Luke 16:19 "There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. 20 But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores who was laid at his gate, 21 desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. NKJV

In Jesus' parable of Lazarus the beggar and the rich man, Lazarus was in comfort in Abraham's bosom. When Abraham (Gen 15:15) died he went to his fathers. When Moses (Dt 31:16) and David (2Sam 7:12) died it was said that they rested with their fathers. All of these were righteous Israelis. Lazarus was a son of Abraham and went to rest with his fathers.

Samuel was resurrected by a medium (1Sam 28:13-14).When Samuel was resurrected he ascended from the earth and asked why he had been brought up. Righteous Israelis go to their fathers, and Abraham is a father of Samuel, he must be where the other righteous Israelis are. In the OT all the righteous died and went to someplace located the earth to be with their fathers.

The thief on the cross went with Jesus to paradise. By John 20: 17 Jesus did not ascend to heaven until 3 days after the crucifixion. We know that those in Abraham's bosom could talk as well as see those held in Hades. While Jesus was in paradise, in the depths of the earth, He preached to all in Hades.

 

[Dustoff]

He descended to Hades to proclaim the facts of the gospel to those who lived before the flood.

 

[Halbhh]

1 Peter 3:19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison NKJV

There is a controversy over the above passage. Peter seems to be saying that Jesus went to hell and preached.

Eph 4:9 (Now this, "He ascended" — what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth? NKJV

Paul seems to be in agreement.

Luke 23:43 And Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise." NKJV

Jesus told the thief who died with Him that they would both be in paradise the day they died.

Luke 16:19 "There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. 20 But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores who was laid at his gate, 21 desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. NKJV

In Jesus' parable of Lazarus the beggar and the rich man, Lazarus was in comfort in Abraham's bosom. When Abraham (Gen 15:15) died he went to his fathers. When Moses (Dt 31:16) and David (2Sam 7:12) died it was said that they rested with their fathers. All of these were righteous Israelis. Lazarus was a son of Abraham and went to rest with his fathers.

Samuel was resurrected by a medium (1Sam 28:13-14).When Samuel was resurrected he ascended from the earth and asked why he had been brought up. Righteous Israelis go to their fathers, and Abraham is a father of Samuel, he must be where the other righteous Israelis are. In the OT all the righteous died and went to someplace located the earth to be with their fathers.

The thief on the cross went with Jesus to paradise. By John 20: 17 Jesus did not ascend to heaven until 3 days after the crucifixion. We know that those in Abraham's bosom could talk as well as see those held in Hades. While Jesus was in paradise, in the depths of the earth, He preached to all in Hades.

About only the very first implied question: "Peter seems to be saying that Jesus went to hell and preached."

It turns out there is a clear later verse that says precisely what Jesus proclaimed, so that there can be no doubt.

After that passage in 1rst Peter chapter 3, continue reading. Be sure that you continue reading into chapter 4, and read chapter 4. This will definitely tell us what Jesus preached.

This was a wonderful moment, to get the clear lesson that Christ preached the gospel to the dead (who had not heard it, and even to those whom before the flood were steeped in wickedness -- Genesis 6:5 Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great upon the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was altogether evil all the time. )

And we know also that factually: Romans 2:11 For God does not show favoritism. (and one should definitely read this full passage, verses 6-16, as a key part of all of this).

Above I'm only trying to point to some clear and factual things we definitely know as just fact, and not address everything in your interesting OP.

It does seem to me pretty clear though that if God gave those from before the Flood a chance at repentance and salvation through the gospel, then not showing favoritism, one could expect that some equal chance at repentance and salvation through faith in Christ could be expected then for any of the dead that had never heard the gospel, as they would presumably have an equal chance, there being no favoritism. (God would have no trouble bringing together souls from any time, as time is not an obstacle for the almighty.)

On the more complex and less fully known situation in regard to Hades and the possibility of 'purgatory' for instance, the Catholic doctrine, I've gotten the impression that even for Catholics that not very much is known about it past a couple of limited things, but perhaps someone could fill in more?

 

[Paul4JC]

While Jesus was in paradise, in the depths of the earth, He preached to all in Hades.

Yes! In triumph. All three compartments.....Paradise, Hades, Tartarus.


What is the Apostles' Creed? "He descended into hell"

 

[Der Alte]

The Grave/Hell is never called prison and prison is never called the grave/hell in the Bible.

Luke 4:18-19
(18) The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
(19) To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.​

Here Jesus announces His earthly ministry. The word translated "captives" literally means "prisoners of war" those are the captives Jesus preached freedom to. The primary meaning of the word translated "deliverance" is "freedom."

1 Peter 3:18-20
(18) For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
(19) By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
(20) Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.​

In the grave/hell there were only dead people no poor, brokenhearted, captives or blind for Jesus to preach to.
.....If Jesus did in fact preach in the grave/hell then He was a failure since the only people who were saved was Noah and his family and they were alive not dead.

 

[Halbhh]

The Grave/Hell is never called prison and prison is never called the grave/hell in the Bible.

Luke 4:18-19
(18) The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
(19) To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.​

Here Jesus announces His earthly ministry. The word translated "captives" literally means "prisoners of war" those are the captives Jesus preached freedom to. The primary meaning of the word translated "deliverance" is "freedom."

1 Peter 3:18-20
(18) For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
(19) By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
(20) Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.​

In the grave/hell there were only dead people no poor, brokenhearted, captives or blind for Jesus to preach to.
.....If Jesus did in fact preach in the grave/hell then He was a failure since the only people who were saved was Noah and his family and they were alive not dead.

Hi friend, you'll be wanting to read 1rst Peter, the epistle, fully through.

 

[Der Alte]

Hi friend, you'll be wanting to read 1rst Peter, the epistle, fully through.

Sorry amigo I don't have the time or inclination to read through 1 Peter or any other book and try to figure out what you are talking about.
Maybe you'll be wanting to read my post and respond to it with definitive answers/ scripture.
As I said hell is never called prison and prison is never called hell in the Bible..

 

[Halbhh]

Sorry amigo I don't have the time or inclination to read through 1 Peter or any other book and try to figure out what you are talking about.
Maybe you'll be wanting to read my post and respond to it with definitive answers/ scripture.
As I said hell is never called prison and prison is never called hell in the Bible..

Ok. See the first half of post #3.

 

[Paul4JC]

Why would he make proclamation to antediluvian people and not postdiluvian OT dead? That's not what this text is about.

To keep in context of Peter read [2Pe 2:4 NIV] 4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell (Tartarus), putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment;

They are translating Tartarus as hell, but hell is Hades [Luke 16:23]. Tartarus is only used once in the Bible, and it's here.

He made proclamation to these in Tartarus.

"5020 (tartaróō) is a Greek name for the under-world, especially the abode of the damned – hence to cast into hell" (A-S); to send into the subterranean abyss reserved for demons and the dead.

There's Hades(OT Sheol), (Gehanna), Tartarus, and the Abyss. Translators are mixing up words when calling everything hell.

[Jde 1:6 NIV] 6 And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling--these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.

These are the same of the “imprisoned spirits” and [1Pe 3:19-20 NIV] “those who were disobedient long ago”

Christ also took the keys of death and hell and that’s what his proclamation was about. [Rev 1:18 NIV] I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

 

[Der Alte]

Ok. See the first half of post #3.

I read post #3 nothing really contradicts or addresses my post #5.
Jesus' ministry did not involve preaching to the dead anywhere.
"Hell/the grave" is never called prison and prison is never called, "hell/the grave" anywhere in the Bible.
If 1 Pet refers to Jesus preaching to dead spirits anywhere what would have been the purpose? Only 8 people were saved, Noah and his family, and they were not dead but alive. If the dead of Noah's day were given the chance to repent, accept Jesus etc. why out of 1000s of people not one repented?

 

[Der Alte]

Greek is now, and for 2020+ years has been, the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox church. Who, better than the native Greek speaking scholars who translated the Eastern Orthodox Bible [EOB], know the correct meaning of Greek words, e.g. “Gehenna,””hades” etc.?
…..Note, in the EOB, footnote pg. 180
Hades is the realm of the dead. The upper part of hades was considered to be luminous and it was called “paradise” or "Abraham's bosom.” Hades is not to be confused with hell (Gehenna) which is the final place of state or place of the damned (“the lake of’ fire”).
= = = = = = = =
https://azbyka.ru/otechnik/books/or...tament-(The-Eastern-Greek-Orthodox-Bible).pdf
The Eastern/Greek Orthodox Bible EOB—New Testament 96 can be D/L at the link above. If anyone has doubts about the EOB version I suggest they read the 200 page preface which summarizes the extensive Greek scholarship supporting this translation.

 

[Halbhh]

Greek is now, and for 2020+ years has been, the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox church. Who, better than the native Greek speaking scholars who translated the Eastern Orthodox Bible [EOB], know the correct meaning of Greek words, e.g. “Gehenna,””hades” etc.?
…..Note, in the EOB, footnote pg. 180
Hades is the realm of the dead. The upper part of hades was considered to be luminous and it was called “paradise” or "Abraham's bosom.” Hades is not to be confused with hell (Gehenna) which is the final place of state or place of the damned (“the lake of’ fire”).
= = = = = = = =
https://azbyka.ru/otechnik/books/or...tament-(The-Eastern-Greek-Orthodox-Bible).pdf
The Eastern/Greek Orthodox Bible EOB—New Testament 96 can be D/L at the link above. If anyone has doubts about the EOB version I suggest they read the 200 page preface which summarizes the extensive Greek scholarship supporting this translation.

Perhaps you may have been trying to talk about a different thing, but when you said "Jesus' ministry did not involve preaching to the dead", then it's seeming you have simply not yet (just like most American Christians haven't yet) read 1rst Peter. Here are the chapters you'll need for that. It won't be affected by which translation you choose, so you can choose any compare to help validate the translation as you like.

1 Peter 3 NIV (verses 18-20)
1 Peter 4 NIV (verse 6)

Generally I recommend to anyone they read fully through such an epistle, with listening to get the messages, before they try to focus on just 1 or 2 verses. Here you'll find the context doesn't alter the plain meaning of the verses.

 

[Halbhh]

These are the same of the “imprisoned spirits” and [1Pe 3:19-20 NIV] “those who were disobedient long ago”

18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built.

We can gather from 2 Peter 2:5 that Noah preached to the people certainly, and also we know factually that the people that perished in the Flood did not turn from their evil ways.

If we continue reading carefully and into chapter 4, we learn more.

In verses 5-6, we get confirmation, or even more clear and best is to carefully read all of verses 2-6, and then there can be no doubt any longer.

Why would he make proclamation to antediluvian people and not postdiluvian OT dead?

That seems quite right, as God does not show favoritism, scripture tells us (see post #3 above for more). So, if you will look at post #3, you'd see what seems implied, by the wonderful message of 1rst Peter chapters 3-4. God will judge fairly, as we know, and in post #3 is a conclusion that fits everything, when all the various passages from various books are put together.

Instead of destroying those who have ever been sinners -- people like you and I -- Christ came to give all a chance to turn to Him for salvation! (you will probably recognize the word "all" here in this way!)

I'm reminded of the key next verse that continues John 3:16 --

John 3:17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him.

And the wonderful reassurance we have:

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow in keeping His promise as some understand slowness, but is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish but everyone to come to repentance.

 

[Der Alte]

Perhaps you may have been trying to talk about a different thing, but when you said "Jesus' ministry did not involve preaching to the dead", then it's seeming you have simply not yet (just like most American Christians haven't yet) read 1rst Peter. Here are the chapters you'll need for that. It won't be affected by which translation you choose, so you can choose any compare to help validate the translation is correct, as needed.
1 Peter 3 NIV (verses 18-20)
1 Peter 4 NIV (verse 6)

Sorry not in the mood for a wild goose chase. Since you will not read or respond to the scripture I posted, why do you think I will look up and read verses you only refer to?
I have already addressed 1 Peter 3:18-20, twice. If you wish to have a discussion read my posts and respond to them.
Hell/the grave is NEVER called prison in the Bible and prison is NEVER called hell/the grave.
This was Jesus' ministry

Luke 4:18-19
18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.​

Note, Jesus ministry does not include preaching to the dead. There are no poor, brokenhearted, captives, blind or bruised in the grave/hell only dead people.
If 1 Pet 3:19-20 refers to Jesus preaching to dead people in hell/the grave why is it that not one single dead person was saved? Wouldn't Jesus know that preaching to the dead was futile?
The only ones saved were Noah and his family, 8 people, and they alive not dead.
I will wait for you to provide me one verse where Hell/the grave is clearly called prison in the Bible or prison is called hell/the grave.

 

[Halbhh]

Sorry not in the mood for a wild goose chase.

Well, it would likely be a wild goose chase to have a discussion about what is in 1rst Peter without reading 1rst Peter, of course.

And we know that to really understand the verses in 1rst Peter we'd need to carefully read 1rst Peter fully through with a true humble listening. (and it will help if we've also read fully through the new testament entirely, or even better the entirety of all of the bible fully, actually, for some of these topics)

But it's not only reading through that is foremost, though reading through is crucial! ---

For us all, the most key thing in reading scripture is to truly listen with "ears that hear", as Christ said to us.

This listening will make us read through fully. (those who listen listen fully through)

This is more helpful even than it may first appear, does much more than only help us to get everything --

When our Lord says something we'd otherwise find very hard to follow, such as "love your enemies" for instance, the difference between truly listening and not listening will make the difference between given aid to begin to be able to do as He says, or to avoid His words and in ways even to never do as He says -- which avoiding would put one in severe jeopardy we learn in Matthew chapter 7.

Listening then is not just helpful, but crucial central for us.

Because when we listen we are strengthened, encouraged, and most important aided. As He says to us John 10:27 My sheep listen to My voice; I know them, and they follow Me.. His words in the gospels are literally words that will be forever -- Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will never pass away.

 

[Paul4JC]

So where did Christ descend to? Where is this place biblically?

 

[Halbhh]

So where did Christ descend to? Where is this place biblically?

Good questions, and I've only addressed things I feel are either factual (such as in the first half of post#3), or else that reasonably can be expected to fit scripture (such as in the 2nd half of post#3) -- and only the factual statements of scripture are really certainty in my view. I do read in scripture that there are some mysteries that will not be revealed to us yet, but instead to us have been revealed certain key things -- everything we truly need, these are the mysteries that have been revealed. So, any 1 Christian will know some things. Together, we might work out more.

 

[Der Alte]

Well, it would likely be a wild goose chase to have a discussion about what is in 1rst Peter without reading 1rst Peter, of course.
And we know that to really understand the verses in 1rst Peter we'd need to carefully read 1rst Peter fully through with a true humble listening. (and it will help if we've also read fully through the new testament entirely, or even better the entirety of all of the bible fully, actually, for some of these topics)...

Reading some isolated verses does not inform me what you are referring to by those verses.
Notice how in my post which you quoted. I also explained what I understood.

But it's not only reading through that is foremost, though reading through is crucial! ---
For us all, the most key thing in reading scripture is to truly listen with "ears that hear", as Christ said to us.
This listening will make us read through fully. (those who listen listen fully through)
This is more helpful even than it may first appear, does much more than only help us to get everything --
When our Lord says something we'd otherwise find very hard to follow, such as "love your enemies" for instance, the difference between truly listening and not listening will make the difference between given aid to begin to be able to do as He says, or to avoid His words and in ways even to never do as He says -- which avoiding would put one in severe jeopardy we learn in Matthew chapter 7.
Listening then is not just helpful, but crucial central for us.
Because when we listen we are strengthened, encouraged, and most important aided. As He says to us John 10:27 My sheep listen to My voice; I know them, and they follow Me.. His words in the gospels are literally words that will be forever -- Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will never pass away.

All off topic for this thread. You might want to start a thread if you want to lecture people.

 

[Halbhh]

Reading some isolated verses does not inform me what you are referring to by those verses.
Notice how in my post which you quoted. I also explained what I understood.

All off topic for this thread. You might want to start a thread if you want to lecture people.

Just read that epistle I suggest, and if you like, talk with me another day. Have a nice evening!

 

[Paul4JC]

"The doctrine of Christ’s descent to the dead, expressed by the clause “He descended to the dead” in the Apostles’ Creed, might be one of the most unpopular doctrines in evangelical churches today".

Four Myths About Christ’s Descent to the Dead