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Featured Did God create dragons?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Nathan98, Sep 7, 2017.

  1. pat34lee

    pat34lee Messianic

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    Now try a real translation like the KJV.
     
  2. Targaryen

    Targaryen Scripture,Tradition and Reason

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    No, dragons refer to a mythological animal that in the West is usually attributed to evil or bad luck, possibly due to the Biblical quotation of Revelations. In the eat it's a mythological creature of wisdom. This word is not interchangeable with dinosaurs. The first scientific discovery of Dinosaurs was in 1824, though a prior case was recorded in 1676 but the thigh bone found was attributed to a "giant"

    First Dinosaur Fossil Discoveries - Paleontology and Geology Glossary
     
  3. pat34lee

    pat34lee Messianic

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    Dragons were never mythological until they became rare, in the middle ages.
    The gorilla and orangutans were myths too, at least to the 'experts'.
    The people who lived around them knew better.
     
  4. Targaryen

    Targaryen Scripture,Tradition and Reason

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    You need to quit while you're behind. Dragons, a mythological creature, not a real one, became "rare" in the middle ages? The gorilla and and orangutan were "myths" based on what exact evidence?
     
  5. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Yes. Dinosaurs were on the ark. They were no doubt the baby versions. Also, the Scriptures say that God was the One who called the animals to come to Noah onto the ark. So if they were cooperating in this way by God, then they no doubt were not acting violent or aggressive onboard the ark, either.

    As for the Leviathan (which is a dragon), that puppy is aquatic.
     
  6. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    God did not put fire breathing dragons in His Word for no reason. All Scripture is profitable. Dragons (which are real) is compared with our adversary who is also real. We as believers have to always be on the look out spiritually.
     
  7. Hal A Peno

    Hal A Peno Well-Known Member

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    zxdfh
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
  8. majj27

    majj27 Mr. Owl has had quite enough

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    Big, flying, flamethrower-faced dragons actually existed in the Middle Ages? This kind of dragon?

    [​IMG]

    Because seriously, I'm a fantasy fan, and even for ME that's really stretching things.
     
  9. Hank77

    Hank77 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    An English translation is not necessarily correct when it comes to a translation of a Hebrew word that didn't exist in the Greek or Latin.
    I like the YLT translation. Nobody is really sure what the animal was that the Hebrews called re'em, so Young didn't assume anything and just used the Hebrew word.

    Job 39:9 Is a Reem willing to serve thee? Doth he lodge by thy crib?
    Job 39:10 Dost thou bind a Reem in a furrow with his thick band? Doth he harrow valleys after thee?

    I found this rather interesting though, NOT that it is the re'em.
    Robinson goes on to say that a “somewhat more definite account of a similar animal is contained in the Transactions of the Zealand Academy of Sciences at Flushing (published 1792). The account was transmitted to the society in 1791, from the Cape of Good Hope, by Mr. Henry Cloete.


    “This animal resembled a horse, and was of a light-gray color, with white stripes under the lower jaw. It had a single horn, directly in front, as long as one’s arm and at the base about as thick. Towards the middle the horn was somewhat flattened, but had a sharp point; it was not attached to the bone of the forehead, but fixed only in the skin.


    “The head was like that of the horse, and the size also about the same. The hoofs were round, like those of a horse, but divided below, like those of oxen. This remarkable animal was shot between Table Mountain and Hippopotamus River, about sixteen days’ journey on horseback from Cambedo, which would be about a month’s journey in ox-wagons from Capetown.


    Read more at Are there really unicorns in the King James Bible? - On the Front Lines of the Culture Wars
     
  10. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    The King James Bible says "unicorn" instead of "oxen" in Job 39. I trust the KJV over the NRSV. Why? Because most Modern Translations have got the stink of the devil within them. How can we know? Check Daniel 3, Isaiah 14, and Revelation 13 for starters.

    For example: The NRSV says that fourth figure in the fire with Daniels three friends had, "the appearance of a god." (little "g") (Daniel 3:25). Other translations say that he was the son of the gods. The KJV got it right. It says that this was, "the Son of God." For Jesus was in the fire with them.

    The NSRV says in Isaiah 14:12,
    "How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn!." (Isaiah 14:12) (NSRV)

    "We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts." (2 Peter 1:19) (KJV).

    Isaiah 14:12 (KJV) is talking about the fall of Lucifer, or the devil. Yet, the NRSV has the audacity to say that Jesus (Who is the Day Star who arises in our hearts according to 2 Peter 1:19) falls from heaven. It's sick.

    Here is what Isaiah 14:12 says in the KJV.

    "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!" (Isaiah 14:12) (KJV).

    We know that the word "Lucifer" means light bearer. How fitting. Lucifer is described as wearing jewels in Ezekiel 28:13. Jewels or gemstones reflect or reflect light. In short, jewels hold light. They are like little light bearers. The New Testament says, "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light." (2 Corinthians 11:14).

    Then there is Revelation 13. Well, many Bible versions say that it is the dragon who is standing on the sea shore in Revelation. This is just evil and wrong.

    See Parallel Version for Revelation 13:1 here.
    NSRV just completely leaves out John standing on the sand by the sea.

    But in many Modern Translations: Revelation 13:1 says The dragon stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. It had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on its horns, and on each head a blasphemous name.

    See, if you know anything about Bible language, standing on something means that you "own it"; And the devil wants to own you. In the King James, John is standing on the seashore. Yet in many Bible versions the dragon (i.e. the devil) is standing on the seashore.

    Why is this a problem?

    Let's look at...

    Genesis 22:17

    "That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the seashore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;"

    Did you catch that? God says to Abraham that He will multiply his seed as the stars of the heaven and as the sand which is upon the seashore where he will then possess the gate of his enemies (i.e. the devil and his kingdom). The apostle John who wrote Revelation was Jewish and he was the promised seed of Genesis 22 standing on the seashore in Revelation 13. It was not the dragon or the devil standing on the seashore.

    For certain Modern Versions eliminate the part of the passage in Revelation 13:1 that says that John is standing on the seashore (When he refers to himself as "I").

    Also, the devil tries to take out key points in important discussions within the Bible (Which can affect doctrine). For example: In Romans 7 Paul talks from the Jew's perspective in keeping the Old Testament Law (Which leads to problems), and he gives us the climax or heart of his message as a solution in Romans 8:1. Now, certain modern translations have eliminated "who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." Eliminating this passage destroys the whole thrust of Paul's argument. Walking in the Spirit is the key to being in Christ Jesus. You eliminate that and you destroy Paul's argument. Also, 1 John 5:7 is the only verse in the Bible that is the clearest and most concise teaching on the Godhead (i.e. the Trinity).
     
  11. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    There is a description of a dragon as a part of God's creation in Job 41.
     
  12. majj27

    majj27 Mr. Owl has had quite enough

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    Yes, but Job didn't live in the Middle Ages.
     
  13. Winken

    Winken Heimat Supporter

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    Yeah. She lives next door........
     
  14. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    The Bible is not a book about Science.
    It is a book about God and His miracles, and His love for you and me.

    Now, as for the animals: The Bible says God called all the animals (See Genesis 6:19). The only way the really big ones would fit is if they were baby ones. It is the only way.

    There is no such thing. God created the Earth in six (24 hour) days. Before the six day creation: The Bible says waters existed over the face of the deep. The Bible mentions nothing of a pre-Adamic world. The geneology of Jesus Christ goes back to Adam and not some kind of pre-Adamic world. You are buying into the lie of Evolution still and trying to cram that into the Bible (when it does not fit).

    There are global flood legends all over the world. The evidence for the global flood can be seen all over the globe. Ancient cities underneath the ocean. Seashells on the tops of the highest mountains, etc. But I am not really interested in debating something that is so basic. Please take no offense; But if you are not getting something basic in the Bible, it is something you should consider talking to God about, my friend. I say this not to wound you, but I say this in love. For your views here radically goes against what the Bible plainly says.

    My trying to convince you of what the Bible plainly says is not going to work if it is something this basic. So it is best we agree to disagree and move on and just love each other in Christ, my friend.

    Peace be unto you;
    And may you please be well.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2017
  15. Hank77

    Hank77 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Have you seen this Lod mosaic that was found several years ago in Israel; a photo of it was my avatar for awhile. It is a very large floor mosaic.

    These surround a larger octagonal space populated by ferocious wild animals – a lion and lioness, an elephant, a giraffe, a rhinoceros, a tiger, and a wild bull – with a mountainous landscape flanking a ketos, a mythical sea creature.

    Likewise, the Jewish word for the sea monster in the Book of Jonah (1:17) is translated in the Septuagint as the Greek ketos. On the Arch of Titus in Rome, the creature appears on the base of the seven-branch menorah that was taken as part of the spoils from the temple after the sack of Jerusalem in AD70. It is also interesting to note that during the Jewish revol, Lod was again besieged and sacked by the Romans, commanded by the general Lusius Quietus, whose name, corrupted to Kitos, later gave the conflict the title the Kitos war. The appearance of a mythological ketos in the central panel of the Lod mosaic, flanked by a lion and lioness, and in the incongruous company of other real-life creatures, may therefore have had some significance and hidden meaning for Jews living in Lod during the third century. [emphasis mine]


    The Lod mosaics – a carnival of animals
     
  16. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    If a dragon existed during the time of Job according to Job 41, then why is it so hard to believe they continued to survive at a later time? You do realize that bears and other animals do hybernate, right?
     
  17. Targaryen

    Targaryen Scripture,Tradition and Reason

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    the most believable post in the last little bit in this thread.
     
  18. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Lots of interesting stuff out there. Glory be to God for it all.
     
  19. 1213

    1213 Disciple of Jesus

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    I read that and it seems to be speaking of Leviathan, which by description could be as well called dinosaur. I believe God created those and I agree that they are wrongly explained to be just myths. :)
     
  20. SBC

    SBC Well-Known Member

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    Actually animals did not "breath" fire.
    However they do expel methane which is flammable.
    And they do expel their breath, that depending on the air temperature, can look like smoke.
    Stories told are by their observation revealed by their choice of descriptive words.

    Job 41
    [19] Out of his mouth go burning lamps, and sparks of fire leap out.
    [20] Out of his nostrils goeth smoke, as out of a seething pot or caldron.
    [21] His breath kindleth coals, and a flame goeth out of his mouth.

    God Bless,
    SBC
     
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