Did fallen angels break our code?

Andrewn

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That would be the only way - and clearly Noah was Nephilim because they exist before the flood and afterwards and the only connection between the two is Noah.
I am on your side of the debate but Noah was not necessarily a Nephilim. Nephilim genes could have survived the Flood in one of his son's wives.

This discussion has been going in circles with 2 camps entrenched in their positions. So, perhaps realizing that Nephilim are also called by other names in the Bible may provide new data to discuss. One of the most commonly used names for these giants is Rephaim.

"In the Hebrew Bible, "Rephaites" or "Rephaim" can describe an ancient race of giants in Iron Age Israel, or the places where these individuals were thought to have lived. According to Genesis 14:5, King Chedorlaomer and his allies attacked and defeated the Rephaites at Ashteroth-Karnaim. Rephaites are also mentioned at Genesis 15:20; Deuteronomy 2:10-21, 3:11; the Book of Joshua (Joshua 12:4, 13:12, 15:8, 17:15, 18:16); the Books of Samuel (2 Samuel 5:18–22, 23:13); and the Books of Chronicles (1 Chronicles 11:15, 14:9 and 20:4)."

Rephaite - Wikipedia

GIANTS - JewishEncyclopedia.com

The second article is especially useful.
 
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BobRyan

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I am on your side of the debate but Noah was not necessarily a Nephilim. Nephilim genes could have survived the Flood in one of his son's wives.

True - but if God's purpose in the flood was to destroy Nephilim then that one slipped passed him to the point of flooding the post-flood world with it.

If the issue is having families with aliens from space, and Noah or his sons marry into such a family - seems like 'not righteous' in the eyes of God.

This discussion has been going in circles with 2 camps entrenched in their positions. So, perhaps realizing that Nephilim are also called by other names in the Bible may provide new data to discuss. One of the most commonly used names for these giants is Rephaim.

True - you find them in several places in the OT after the flood - and never connected with the "sons of God" after the flood.

Another reason for the solution that all mankind were of the giant variety before the flood just as they all were of the "long-lives" variety.

But AFTER the flood both the long-life and the tall stature feature begins to fizzle out with the result that some groups lived longer than others and some were taller than others until it completely fizzles.

That gives rise to the idea of "tall races" and also "longer lived races"

"In the Hebrew Bible, "Rephaites" or "Rephaim" can describe an ancient race of giants in Iron Age Israel, or the places where these individuals were thought to have lived. According to Genesis 14:5, King Chedorlaomer and his allies attacked and defeated the Rephaites at Ashteroth-Karnaim. Rephaites are also mentioned at Genesis 15:20; Deuteronomy 2:10-21, 3:11; the Book of Joshua (Joshua 12:4, 13:12, 15:8, 17:15, 18:16); the Books of Samuel (2 Samuel 5:18–22, 23:13); and the Books of Chronicles (1 Chronicles 11:15, 14:9 and 20:4)."

Rephaite - Wikipedia

GIANTS - JewishEncyclopedia.com

The second article is especially useful.
 
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Contenders Edge

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There is enough just in the targums that prove the ancient Jews did not take it as fallen angels but men of authority and the Nephilim were men of renown---but called them men--not half breeds. Even the KJV says the Nephilim are MEN.
Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
They are not called half breeds.


There was no consensus amongst the Jews as to who the Nephilim. Some of them believed them to be as you say and others believed them to be a race of giants that were spawned from demonic activity though they were called men, they were not ordinary men but men with unusual abilities and attributes that other people did not have which enabled them to become "the heroes of old and the men of renown" that they were called.
 
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Scott Husted

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Allowed them to be borne into existence is a more appropriate question. It is not something He did Himself and the same question could be asked of any evil and perversion that God permits to happen.
You don't believe God created them? Or that God did not know what they would do?
 
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Andrewn

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True - but if God's purpose in the flood was to destroy Nephilim then that one slipped passed him to the point of flooding the post-flood world with it.
Why do we assume that God's purpose in the flood was to destroy Nephilim? They were heroes, people of renown. Sure, some of them were bad but, like other people, some were good.

You previously said that Noah himself was Nephilim! (Was his wife also Nephilim?) What I'm saying is that only 17% of the people after the Flood could have had Nephilim genes.
 
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Scott Husted

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That depends on whether you were referring to the angels or the Nephilim.

It's not so much about whether he did or didn't but whether he knew what they would do beforehand or not ...

The Nephilim are still around after the flood so what they speak to spiritual, or for us inwardly is as truth relating to our soul.
 
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Scott Husted

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Why do we assume that God's purpose in the flood was to destroy Nephilim? They were heroes, people of renown. Sure, some of them were bad but, like other people, some were good.
Assumption doeth not a truth make ...
 
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BobRyan

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Why do we assume that God's purpose in the flood was to destroy Nephilim? They were heroes, people of renown.

Well I don't assume that - I was just thinking that those who think they are children born to half-human half-alien-from-space hybrids were thinking that this is the final straw that caused the flood.

If mankind were made Nephilim from Adam on - then for sure the purpose of the flood was not to destroy Nephilim since Noah would be one.

If it was just a "peculiar human feature" of some humans vs others at the time of the flood -- then for certain Noah's family had to have had it to carry it over to the other side of the flood.

So then one of the possibilities is as you say - that just some people had that natural human trait for "giant". But it seems to me that "Nephilim" sounds like a race. The human race in my thinking but -- as you say maybe just a "trait" that some had.

Still the "trait" of long lived life spans in Genesis 6 appears to apply to all the relatives of Noah including Adam so it is very likely that all of Cain's descendants also had it -- and I suspect that is true of the large size as well going from Adam down to Noah. (Adam who did have direct access to the tree of life for some period of time - by contrast to all others). The degeneration principle you see in human generations in the book of Genesis - as they get farther and farther from Adam - probably applied to height as well as long-life spans.
 
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BobRyan

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So God didnt know what they would do after he created them?

Sure he knew that eventually some of the angels would choose rebellion just as he knew that eventually Adam would join them. He knows the complete picture ahead of time.
 
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Scott Husted

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Sure he knew that eventually some of the angels would choose rebellion just as he knew that eventually Adam would join them. He knows the complete picture ahead of time.

Then there is a reason relative to the mystery hid from the beginning concerning what these things spiritually depict in conjunction to where this mystery opens in, or God would have never created them or us to begin with.
 
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BobRyan

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There was no consensus amongst the Jews as to who the Nephilim. Some of them believed them to be as you say and others believed them to be a race of giants that were spawned from demonic activity .

Jewish tradition can be sketchy -

from: Nephilim: Fallen Angels, Giants or Men? - The mystery of Genesis 6:1–4

In fact, in Judaism there is no such thing as fallen angels or conflict in heaven. There is only one Creator in charge of it all, with no forces opposing Him. Even “Satan” is merely the name of an angel whose divinely assigned task is to tempt people to sin.9
 
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It's not so much about whether he did or didn't but whether he knew what they would do beforehand or not ...

The Nephilim are still around after the flood so what they speak to spiritual, or for us inwardly is as truth relating to our soul.


The angels or the Nephilim? As for the Nephilim, they have nothing to say to us anymore; insofar as anyone can tell, they are dead and gone.
 
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Jewish tradition can be sketchy -


"In fact, in Judaism there is no such thing as fallen angels or conflict in heaven. There is only one Creator in charge of it all, with no forces opposing Him. Even “Satan” is merely the name of an angel whose divinely assigned task is to tempt people to sin.9"


Bear in mind that may be according to Jewish tradition, but we do not get that from the scriptures; not even from the Old Testament. Even Jesus challenged and rebuked many of the Jewish traditions of His day.
 
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BobRyan

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Bear in mind that may be according to Jewish tradition, but we do not get that from the scriptures; not even from the Old Testament. Even Jesus challenged and rebuked many of the Jewish traditions of His day.

Agreed ... my point is that the tradition is not always a reliable source.
 
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Scott Husted

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The angels or the Nephilim? As for the Nephilim, they have nothing to say to us anymore; insofar as anyone can tell, they are dead and gone.
What was symbolism then is symbolism now in relationship to the same purpose of God now no longer hid. Whether it be an ark covered without & within with pitch, a Tabernacle dyed the color Adam, angels ,or the sons of God and the daughters of men.
 
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What was symbolism then is symbolism now in relationship to the same purpose of God now no longer hid. Whether it be an ark covered without & within with pitch, a Tabernacle dyed the color Adam, angels ,or the sons of God and the daughters of men.


Only none of those things listed were ever presented in a symbolic context but instead were presented as things that actually existed and still exist; angels being among that which still exist.
 
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