• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Did Cain and Abel Keep the Torah or Sabbath?

Discussion in 'Messianic Judaism' started by visionary, Nov 7, 2017.

  1. Mercymessianicjudiasm

    Mercymessianicjudiasm New Member

    99
    +7
    United States
    Messianic
    Single
  2. Open Heart

    Open Heart Messianic Jewish Catholic

    +3,482
    United States
    Catholic
    Celibate
    This was settled way back at the beginning of the thread. The Biblical day begins at sunset (the evening).
     
  3. BukiRob

    BukiRob Newbie

    +886
    Messianic
    Married
    US-Constitution
    The verse tells you when a day begins. There were an evening and a morning the first day.

    Satan is in opposition to EVERYTHING the Father has decreed. Surely you have heard this but yet, we still do not get just how deeply that opposition runs. Most of the world say a day starts at sunrise. G-d says it starts at sunset. Most of the world's calendar revolves around the sun. G-d's calendar revolves around the moon and the lunar cycles.

    If Satan can get us to live in a manner that is directly opposite of what G-d says then corruption is sewn into our lives. How more basic and fundamental does it get than what we call a day, a month? If we ignore something as fundamental as that, we cast aside the feast days of G-d. Unless you in a messianic synagogue or a traditional Jewish synagogue you likely are not observing the feast days. The gentile led body has for centuries cast them aside but scripture does not call them the feast days of the jews rather they are the feast days of YVHV
     
  4. Open Heart

    Open Heart Messianic Jewish Catholic

    +3,482
    United States
    Catholic
    Celibate
    Actually, it would be midnight.
     
  5. Elihoenai

    Elihoenai Who has ceased to eat Manna?

    320
    +56
    An evening followed by a morning makes a day.

    Genesis 8:22 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

    22 during all days of the earth, seed-time and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night, do not cease.'
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2017
  6. Lulav

    Lulav Congregation and Theology Admin Staff Member Administrator Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

    +5,040
    United States
    Messianic
    Married
    Attention please.jpg
    Please read the preface in the OP
    concerning this thread.
    Thank You​
     
  7. pinacled

    pinacled Newbie

    729
    +102
    Non-Denom
    Private
    So it seems someone was incline to delete all my post to the detriment of their own.

    I freely had given an honest account of all the scripture pertaining to Adam and How a living Soul is for the potter to say what days are Holy.
     
  8. pinacled

    pinacled Newbie

    729
    +102
    Non-Denom
    Private
    something i was reminded of.
    it just seemed to me that even Abraham was an orphan, or stranger in certain terms.
    Being blessed with the Promised Seed of the coming Holy One who would give us victory.
    In The entirety of Scriptures, all i hear is everyone Testifying of Yeshua as our overcomer.
    Genesis 12New International Version (NIV)
    The Call of Abram
    12 The Lord had said to Abram, “Go from your country, your people and your father’s household


    21"You shall not wrong a stranger or oppress him, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt. 22"You shall not afflict any widow or orphan.…
     
  9. Ken Rank

    Ken Rank Well-Known Member

    +2,582
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    I don't remember the posts, I do know that God made sure to tell us what the Holy days were... they are recorded in Lev. 23 and they start with Sabbath and go through Tabernacles.
     
  10. Open Heart

    Open Heart Messianic Jewish Catholic

    +3,482
    United States
    Catholic
    Celibate
    I have no idea why this was so, but my suggestion is to read the SOP. The answer lies there. Even I read it from time to time.
     
  11. visionary

    visionary Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I. Supporter

    +4,853
    Messianic
    The Sabbath is from eternity and blessed and sanctified from Creation. Sabbath is the seal/mark of God upon His people. The keeping of it is for the believers, and I believe God told Adam and Eve to keep it and train up their children in the way to go.
     
  12. Lulav

    Lulav Congregation and Theology Admin Staff Member Administrator Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

    +5,040
    United States
    Messianic
    Married
    Sorry for the confusion guys, mea culpa.

    I've been having trouble with my PC lately and it's been cutting out on me at the worst times. I think that happened when I split this off from the other Thread, Cain and Able that Visionary started as the topic veered off to discussing if Cain and Abel knew the Torah or holy days so I made a thread from the posts that were in there.

    If your post is missing it may be because it is in the other thread?

    Again sorry for the confusion.

    This was the original thread

    Cain and Abel
     
  13. visionary

    visionary Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I. Supporter

    +4,853
    Messianic
    I think it boils down to the concept of whether God gave us a learning curve or He didn't withhold all truth from the beginning. If it is a mix, then what parts did God not provide in the need to know. I say if it is mentioned, it was known. Sabbath was known. Sacrifices was known.
     
  14. Open Heart

    Open Heart Messianic Jewish Catholic

    +3,482
    United States
    Catholic
    Celibate
    Was the Messiah come right after Adam and Eve sinned? No. So clearly God doesn't want to sew it all up at the beginning.
     
  15. visionary

    visionary Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I. Supporter

    +4,853
    Messianic
    Who came in the cool of the evening if it wasn't our Messiah?
     
  16. gadar perets

    gadar perets Messianic Hebrew (Non-trinitarian)

    +721
    Messianic
    Single
    Surely you jest? It was Yeshua's Father, YHWH (Genesis 3:8; Psalm 2:7).
     
  17. visionary

    visionary Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I. Supporter

    +4,853
    Messianic
    Now the Father walks?? Does He have a body?
     
  18. gadar perets

    gadar perets Messianic Hebrew (Non-trinitarian)

    +721
    Messianic
    Single
    It is figurative language.
     
  19. Open Heart

    Open Heart Messianic Jewish Catholic

    +3,482
    United States
    Catholic
    Celibate
    We don't know which person of the Trinity it was. Generally speaking, I usually assume that "God" in the OT refers to the Father, since in the NT "God" always refers to the Father, with the exception of Thomas' exclamation.

    But hypothetically let's assume it was God the Son, the Word. He is not Yeshua yet, nor is he the Messiah yet. Nor is there a New Covenant Yet. So God didn't want to sew all things up at the beginning.
     
  20. visionary

    visionary Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I. Supporter

    +4,853
    Messianic
    It has to be Yeshua....
    JOHN 1:18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him. (NKJV)

    COLOSSIANS 1:15 [Messiah] who is the image of the God who is not seen and the firstborn of all created ones. (Magiera NT Peshitta translation)

    II CORINTHIANS 4:4 . . . Christ, who is the image of God . . . (NKJV)

    It is Yeshua, our Messiah by whom was our intercessor and thus our mediator between man and God. He is the speaker since sin.

    HEBREWS 1:1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; (NKJV)

    GENESIS 3:8 And they heard the sound of the LORD God [YHVH 'elohim] walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden. (NKJV)
    GENESIS 3:8 And they heard the voice of the Word of the Lord God walking in the garden in the repose of the day; and Adam and his wife hid themselves from before the Lord God among the trees of the garden. (Targum Pseudo-Jonathan, translated by J.W. Etheridge)

    Now just in case you do not know who the "Word of the Lord is"..

    PSALM 110:1 The LORD said to my Lord, "Sit at My right hand, till I make Your enemies Your footstool." (NKJV)

    I CORINTHIANS 8:5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords), 6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live. (NKJV)

    An example of Philo's comments on the Logos sheds light on how 1st-century Jews understood this concept.

    Now the image of God is the Word [Logos], by which all the world was made. (p. 541, The Works of Philo, "The Special Laws, I," translated by C.D. Yonge)

    GENESIS 1:27 And the Word of the Lord created man in His likeness, in the likeness of the presence of the Lord He created him, the male and his yoke-fellow He created them. (Jerusalem Targum, translated by J.W. Etheridge)

    No one else deals with the mediation for sin, and no one else has been given dominion of earth than Yeshua. When God foresaw the breach, He put His only begotten Son in command. He is not going to interfere in His Son's work. That means Yeshua came in the cool of the evening to make intercession knowing sin had occurred.

    DANIEL 7:13 "I was watching in the night visions, and behold, one like the Son of Man, coming with the clouds of heaven! He came to the Ancient of Days, and they brought him near before Him. 14 Then to him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom the one which shall not be destroyed. (NKJV)



     
Loading...