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Did Cain and Abel Keep the Torah or Sabbath?

Discussion in 'Messianic Judaism' started by visionary, Nov 7, 2017.

  1. Mercymessianicjudiasm

    Mercymessianicjudiasm New Member

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    The verse mentioned "rest" and "seventh " year, Sabbath means "rest" celebrated on the seventh day. Objectively this verse is about the Sabbath year. Lev 25:4
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2017
  2. Mercymessianicjudiasm

    Mercymessianicjudiasm New Member

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    YHWH called the light "day", he called darkness "night". Thus "morning" is the beginning of the day (literal definition) and "evening" is the end of the day (factual definition). The evening is mentioned before the day, not because evening precedes the day, but YHWH prefers the evening or "cool of the day" or afternoon to meet with Adam. Hence the Sabbath may be celebrated the evening before the Sabbath light.
     
  3. Open Heart

    Open Heart Messianic Jewish Catholic

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    Thousands of years of Biblical scholars have disagreed with you. And those Biblical scholars that began Shabbat at sunset? Jesus never corrected them.
     
  4. Open Heart

    Open Heart Messianic Jewish Catholic

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    It is not just ANY kind of rest, MMJ. For example, it's not about sleeping.

    I'm not sure why you are changing the subject to go off about the sabbatical year. It's not what the discussion is about.
     
  5. pinacled

    pinacled Newbie

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    Yes, the Sabbath is passed from generation to generation.
    Excellent post
     
  6. Open Heart

    Open Heart Messianic Jewish Catholic

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    What do you mean?
     
  7. Mercymessianicjudiasm

    Mercymessianicjudiasm New Member

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    I do not think you actually read my posts. I know that Shabbat naturally begins in the evening, after the end of the sixth day; but I asked you why? You failed to answer my question. You say every day begins in the evening, so your theory fails because I have used a dictionary to define morning and evening.
     
  8. Mercymessianicjudiasm

    Mercymessianicjudiasm New Member

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    I never said anything about "sleeping".
     
  9. Open Heart

    Open Heart Messianic Jewish Catholic

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    You are using an English dictionary that comes from the heart of Western Civilization. The Bible is a product of Israelite Civilization. You have to look to Jewish Oral tradition to understand its interpretation. I'm not making this up. Oral Torah says that "And it was evening and it was morning, the first day" means that the day begins at sunset. And you want to quote a Western Civilizaiton English dictionary as if that would have more authority?
     
  10. Open Heart

    Open Heart Messianic Jewish Catholic

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    Sleeping was simply an example, to show you that there are forms of rest that have nothing to do with Shabbat. IOW just because something is "rest", doesn't mean you can call it "Sabbath."
     
  11. pinacled

    pinacled Newbie

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    rest has everything to do with Shabbat.
    And is exactly what the pharisees generation were neglecting just as Yeshua said.

    And just as it was with Yov(job) experience, satan only comes as a thief offering the cup of devils.
     
  12. Mercymessianicjudiasm

    Mercymessianicjudiasm New Member

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    The bible is written using English words. Therefore it is plausible to define terms using an English dictionary so we don't have men promoting wild and foolish arguments that can not be supported using scriptures in its proper context.
     
  13. Mercymessianicjudiasm

    Mercymessianicjudiasm New Member

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    Sleeping is an example I never used. Again I do not think you understand my words.
     
  14. Open Heart

    Open Heart Messianic Jewish Catholic

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    Again, Sleeping is the example that *I* used. I never said that you used it. sheesh. I'm simply pointing out to you that not all forms of rest are sabbatical. Therefore when you read about rest, you cannot automatically conclude that it is referring to Sabbath.
     
  15. Open Heart

    Open Heart Messianic Jewish Catholic

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    The Bible is written in Hebrew and Greek, within a Jewish culture.
     
  16. tampasteve

    tampasteve Tampa, Florida, USA, Earth, Sol, Orion arm Supporter

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    Not if we are trying to get to the true root of the meaning of the text. To do that we are always to refer to the original language, Greek or Hebrew in this case. Also the culture and idioms that may be used, without that we can take things far out of context or meaning, even when using a literal translation.
     
  17. Mercymessianicjudiasm

    Mercymessianicjudiasm New Member

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    The bible that YOU read is neither Greek or Hebrew, so please keep the discussion relevant to the discussion. You have not posted one Hebrew or Greek text or word. All your posts have been in English, therefore you must abide by the English language and grammar rules. It is not plausible to post English words then try to create your own definitions for those words, and then say well I'm telling you what those English words mean in Hebrew, I have heard these baseless arguments before. I am telling you what my English bible means in English, Greek have different grammar rules, so the name "Yeshua" would be impossible in Greek. Of course ancient hebrew have no vowels, so trust me I am not ignorant. YHWH, Sabbath.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2017
  18. Mercymessianicjudiasm

    Mercymessianicjudiasm New Member

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    The original language never explicitly says a day begins in the evening. Again it is common knowledge that a day begins in the morning.
     
  19. Mercymessianicjudiasm

    Mercymessianicjudiasm New Member

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    You are attempting to use your example to explain my point or reasoning. Sabbath not only means rest but normally occurs in sequence "seventh ", after all your good work is done. The fact that you would equate or limit this holy commandment to simply "sleeping" surprises me.
     
  20. tampasteve

    tampasteve Tampa, Florida, USA, Earth, Sol, Orion arm Supporter

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    It is not explicit, it is implicit. Regardless, this discussion is going nowhere for me as I also personally believe in the Oral Torah and Traditions.
     
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