Did Cain and Abel Keep the Torah or Sabbath?

[Open Heart]

It has to be Yeshua....
JOHN 1:18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him. (NKJV)

You don't have to see God himself (as he has no form) in order to see manifestations of him. There are many such examples. Nor does the Bible never use anthropomorphisms of God such as God's "finger" writing the ten, or Moses seeing God's "backside."

 

[AbbaLove]

We don't know which person of the Trinity it was. Generally speaking, I usually assume that "God" in the OT refers to the Father, since in the NT "God" always refers to the Father, with the exception of Thomas' exclamation.

What about Yeshua's own words in John 14:9? Why do you think it is so difficult for some to believe that all three were present as one in the Garden of Eden? Is not the LORD God one God.

John 14:9
Yeshua replied to him, “Have I been with you so long without your knowing me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’"?
Deuteronomy 6:4
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD
Psalm 95:3
For the LORD is a great God and a great King above all gods​

Messiah Yeshua (Emmanuel=God with us) is rightly referred to as the "KING of Kings and LORD of Lords" (1 Timothy 6:15, Revelation 17:14, Revelation 19:16)

Who came in the cool of the evening if it wasn't our Messiah?

So, are you implying that you don't believe Father God and the Holy Spirit were with the Messiah? Who then is the LORD (Adonai) if not all three as ONE God ?

 

[Open Heart]

What about Yeshua's own words in John 14:9?

This verse clearly is cannot automatically be proof of Jesus claiming to be God. He is far more likely to be claiming that his teachings and actions are the embodiment of the Father's will. For one thing, God the Son is not God the Father.

 

[gadar perets]

We don't know which person of the Trinity it was.

It was "YHWH". Psalm 2:7 says YHWH is Yeshua's Father. Therefore, it was the Father in the garden.

But hypothetically let's assume it was God the Son, the Word. He is not Yeshua yet, nor is he the Messiah yet.

Nor was he "YHWH", nor will he ever be "YHWH".

 

[gadar perets]

It has to be Yeshua....
JOHN 1:18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him. (NKJV)

COLOSSIANS 1:15 [Messiah] who is the image of the God who is not seen and the firstborn of all created ones. (Magiera NT Peshitta translation)

II CORINTHIANS 4:4 . . . Christ, who is the image of God . . . (NKJV)

The being in the garden was never seen. Neither Adam, nor Eve saw YHWH (Elohim/God).

It is Yeshua, our Messiah by whom was our intercessor and thus our mediator between man and God. He is the speaker since sin.

HEBREWS 1:1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; (NKJV)

He was NOT the speaker since sin. YHWH speaks through him only in these last days.

GENESIS 3:8 And they heard the sound of the LORD God [YHVH 'elohim] walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden. (NKJV)
GENESIS 3:8 And they heard the voice of the Word of the Lord God walking in the garden in the repose of the day; and Adam and his wife hid themselves from before the Lord God among the trees of the garden. (Targum Pseudo-Jonathan, translated by J.W. Etheridge)

Now just in case you do not know who the "Word of the Lord is"..

Since when is it acceptable and profitable for doctrine to add to the word of YHWH as the Targum does?

PSALM 110:1 The LORD said to my Lord, "Sit at My right hand, till I make Your enemies Your footstool." (NKJV)

This verse teaches us that YHWH and the "Lord" (Yeshua) are two different beings. Therefore, the "YHWH" in the garden was not Yeshua.

An example of Philo's comments on the Logos sheds light on how 1st-century Jews understood this concept.

Now the image of God is the Word [Logos], by which all the world was made. (p. 541, The Works of Philo, "The Special Laws, I," translated by C.D. Yonge)

Yonge was a trinitarian Christian who put his own bias into Philo's work by capitalizing "Word" to make it seem like a person rather than YHWH's spoken words which Scripture say were used to create everything (Psalm 33:6).

GENESIS 1:27 And the Word of the Lord created man in His likeness, in the likeness of the presence of the Lord He created him, the male and his yoke-fellow He created them. (Jerusalem Targum, translated by J.W. Etheridge)

Another example of adding to the Scriptures.

No one else deals with the mediation for sin, and no one else has been given dominion of earth than Yeshua. When God foresaw the breach, He put His only begotten Son in command. He is not going to interfere in His Son's work. That means Yeshua came in the cool of the evening to make intercession knowing sin had occurred.

Yeshua was given all dominion and became our mediator AFTER he was born a man (John 5:27; 1 Timothy 2:5; Hebrews 9:14-15).

DANIEL 7:13 "I was watching in the night visions, and behold, one like the Son of Man, coming with the clouds of heaven! He came to the Ancient of Days, and they brought him near before Him. 14 Then to him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom the one which shall not be destroyed. (NKJV)

Yes, his dominion is everlasting. That means it will continue forever from the moment he received it upon his ascension to heaven. Since it was "given" to him, that means he did not have it before that time.

 

[gadar perets]

​

What about Yeshua's own words in John 14:9? Why do you think it is so difficult for some to believe that all three were present as one in the Garden of Eden? Is not the LORD God one God.

John 14:9
Yeshua replied to him, “Have I been with you so long without your knowing me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’"?
​

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This verse most certainly is not saying Yeshua IS the Father (John 1:18; John 6:46). Many men saw Yeshua prior to Philip. They, too, never saw the Father. Yeshua was referring to himself being the exact character image of the Father.

 

[Open Heart]

It was "YHWH". Psalm 2:7 says YHWH is Yeshua's Father. Therefore, it was the Father in the garden.

Thank you for your idea that it was the Father in the Garden. I am not sure, but I lean towards that.

Psalm 2:7 -- the author talks about being God's son. Nothing about Yeshua.

 

[visionary]

When did Yeshua receive authority? Did he not always have this authority even in eternity past?

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life, and the life was the light of men. (John 1:1–4)

Yeshua was — always has been, always will be — God and with all authority of God.

How much authority is included in “all authority in heaven and earth”?
The first thing to say is that this authority is not the authorization of Yeshua to eventually or potentially rule, but the authorization of Yeshua to actually rule as part of the Godhead even before taking on flesh. He has the assigned job of mediating and being the intercessor for sin. It was established before the creation of the world. Everything relating to dealing with sin, is under His authority, responsibility, and His control.

John 1:3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Hebrews 1:3 (ESV) He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

Colossians 1:17 (ESV) 17 And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

Isaiah 46:9–10 (ESV) remember the former things of old; for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me, 10 declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose,’

 

[gadar perets]

Thank you for your idea that it was the Father in the Garden. I am not sure, but I lean towards that.

Psalm 2:7 -- the author talks about being God's son. Nothing about Yeshua.

It is not my "idea". It is a Scriptural fact.

Acts 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Yeshua again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

 

[gadar perets]

When did Yeshua receive authority? Did he not always have this authority even in eternity past?

He received authority after he was born as a man.

John 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.​

He was "given" authority because he never had it. He was given authority because he was the Son of man, not because he was always God.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life, and the life was the light of men. (John 1:1–4)

Yeshua was — always has been, always will be — God and with all authority of God.

I choose to not read the Son into this text as you are doing. I also reject the KJV and other modern translations, preferring instead the translations that preceded the KJV such as Tyndale's Bible, Matthew's Bible, Geneva Bible, The Great Bible, The Bishop's Bible, etc., which basically read;

1In the beginning was that word, and that word was with god: and god was that word. 2The same was in the beginning with god. 3All things were made by it, and without it, was made no thing, that made was. 4In it was life, And life was the light of men, 5And the light shineth in the darkness, and darkness comprehended it not. John 1 Tyndale New Testament​

How much authority is included in “all authority in heaven and earth”?

The first thing to say is that this authority is not the authorization of Yeshua to eventually or potentially rule, but the authorization of Yeshua to actually rule as part of the Godhead even before taking on flesh. He has the assigned job of mediating and being the intercessor for sin. It was established before the creation of the world. Everything relating to dealing with sin, is under His authority, responsibility, and His control.

This is not what Scripture teaches, but what man teaches.

John 1:3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.

See above.

Hebrews 1:3 (ESV) He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

This is all true and pertains to Yeshua after being born a man.

Colossians 1:17 (ESV) 17 And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

Without the added trinitarian bias, the correct translation is, "And he is above all things ..." since the passage is referring to Yeshua in relation to preeminence (vs. 18), not time.

Isaiah 46:9–10 (ESV) remember the former things of old; for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me, 10 declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose,’

These are the words of Father YHWH as can be seen in the previous chapter (Isaiah 45:5-6; Isaiah 45:14; Isaiah 45:18; Isaiah 45:21-22).