Did all the laws end at the cross- Part 2

[Leaf473]

We have to follow the scriptures and God's law includes the Ten Commandments in both letter and Spirit. Jesus magnified the commandments of God which means to make greater not lesser and showed us an example of this directly from the Ten Commandments. Matthew 5:19-30 the Ten Commandments are much greater than the letter that's why they are God's perfect law Psalms 19:7. Almost every law has an umbrella under the Ten. If one is keeping the Spirit of God's law, the letter will automatically be kept. If you find yourself breaking the letter, its a good test you are not following by the Spirit. The Spirit will never lead you to break any of God's commandments. Acts 5:32, John 14:15-18 Isaiah 8:20

I agree we are to follow the scriptures.

According to the scriptures, do you say that this law from Deuteronomy 14 ended at the cross?

At the end of every three years you shall bring all the tithe of your increase in the same year, and shall store it within your gates.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I agree we are to follow the scriptures.

According to the scriptures, do you say that this law from Deuteronomy 14 ended at the cross?

At the end of every three years you shall bring all the tithe of your increase in the same year, and shall store it within your gates.

Do I think tithing ended at the cross, no its not a ceremonial law. The only laws ended are the ordinances (ceremonial laws) all pointing to Christ on the cross.

It's all the time I have for now. God bless

 

[Leaf473]

Do I think tithing ended at the cross, no its not a ceremonial law. The only laws ended are the ordinances (ceremonial laws) all pointing to Christ on the cross.

It's all the time I have for now. God bless

Cool! So... tithing is done differently every third year?

And may the peace of the Lord be always with you!

 

[daq]

I agree we are to follow the scriptures.

According to the scriptures, do you say that this law from Deuteronomy 14 ended at the cross?

At the end of every three years you shall bring all the tithe of your increase in the same year, and shall store it within your gates.

Cool! So... tithing is done differently every third year?

And may the peace of the Lord be always with you!

A nearly full understanding of the calendar is required, and love, love for both Elohim and neighbor. The third shanah-turning of a shanah-year is the seventh month: every seventh month of every year, not every third year, because the third turning is the third season of the year, (also called a tequfah). Are you going to bring three year old produce as a tithe to Elohim? Love Elohim. Are you going to give the Levite in your gates three year old produce? Love your neighbor as yourself.

Moreover, if you strictly interpret a shanah as always meaning strictly a year, and you are wrong, you are robbing Elohim, robbing the Levites and the poor, and robbing even the whole nation, (which is stated in this context in Malachi 3:8-10, not just robbing Elohim but even the whole nation).

But some may say, "This is too much work, and study, and too confusing: a shanah is always a year just as we know and understand it today"... Well, okay then, rob Elohim, and the poor, and even the whole nation of the people of Elohim, and see how that works out for you, lazy ones, (lol).

 

[Leaf473]

A nearly full understanding of the calendar is required, and love, love for both Elohim and neighbor. The third shanah-turning of a shanah-year is the seventh month: every seventh month of every year, not every third year, because the third turning is the third season of the year, (also called a tequfah). Are you going to bring three year old produce as a tithe to Elohim? Love Elohim. Are you going to give the Levite in your gates three year old produce? Love your neighbor as yourself.

Moreover, if you strictly interpret a shanah as always meaning strictly a year, and you are wrong, you are robbing Elohim, robbing the Levites and the poor, and robbing even the whole nation, (which is stated in this context in Malachi 3:8-10, not just robbing Elohim but even the whole nation).

But some may say, "This is too much work, and study, and too confusing: a shanah is always a year just as we know and understand it today"... Well, okay then, rob Elohim, and the poor, and even the whole nation of the people of Elohim, and see how that works out for you, lazy ones, (lol).

Ahh... So tithing is done differently every 7th month of the year. What does that mean in practice for us today? How do we tithe differently in the seventh month, in your view?

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

I can consider the idea that we only have to keep the parts of the law still in effect today, but I have to see a reasonable way to divide up the law that way.

I have seen reference to ritual laws and moral laws. Ritual (ceremonial) laws fulfilled and magnified IN Christ. Moral laws simply common sense: do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

 

[Leaf473]

I have seen reference to ritual laws and moral laws. Ritual (ceremonial) laws fulfilled and magnified IN Christ. Moral laws simply common sense: do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

That makes sense. Basically live by the Golden rule and use the law to gain wisdom on how to do that better, things you may not have thought of. It turns out that's the law and the prophets.

All things therefore whatsoever you would that men should do to you, do you also to them. For this is the law and the prophets. (Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition)

 

[expos4ever]

I have seen reference to ritual laws and moral laws. Ritual (ceremonial) laws fulfilled and magnified IN Christ. Moral laws simply common sense: do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

As I suspect you know, I believe the correct position is that all the Law is done away with. I see no Biblical evidence that either Jesus, Paul, or James believed that there are different categories of the Law - these are categories that we impose. Yes, in some cases, common-sense tells us that "thou shalt not commit murder" is a "moral" law whereas laws about the various festivals are "ceremonial". But there are many laws that do not fit neatly into any one category: consider the law about stoning adulterers; is this not a law about morality?

In any event, I think it is clear that Paul believes that the Law makes people slaves to sin. For example:

But sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead.

Watch what people will do - they will take the word "produced" and edit it to say "revealed" to suit their agenda. That is an entirely illicit move, I suggest. We have seen such histrionics in this and other threads. One example is to take the treatment in Galatians 3 and 4 - which is clearly an historical analysis of the Law - and try to pass it off as a treatment of what happens in the life of each believer. The context will not allow this interpretation.

 

[daq]

As I suspect you know, I believe the correct position is that all the Law is done away with. I see no Biblical evidence that either Jesus, Paul, or James believed that there are different categories of the Law - these are categories that we impose. Yes, in some cases, common-sense tells us that "thou shalt not commit murder" is a "moral" law whereas laws about the various festivals are "ceremonial". But there are many laws that do not fit neatly into any one category: consider the law about stoning adulterers; is this not a law about morality?

In any event, I think it is clear that Paul believes that the Law makes people slaves to sin. For example:

But sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead.

Watch what people will do - they will take the word "produced" and edit it to say "revealed" to suit their agenda. That is an entirely illicit move, I suggest. We have seen such histrionics in this and other threads. One example is to take the treatment in Galatians 3 and 4 - which is clearly an historical analysis of the Law - and try to pass it off as a treatment of what happens in the life of each believer. The context will not allow this interpretation.

What you quoted says that sin produced the coveting.

 

[Bob S]

19 Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. Gal3

14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17 He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit. Eph2

The Law, given at Sinai, created a barrier between the Israelites and the Gentiles. Jesus, on the Cross, removed the barrier, the Law, and introduced to all mankind the new concept of loving our fellow man so much that we are willing to also give our lives to save others. Jn 15:9-14

 

[SabbathBlessings]

19 Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. Gal3

14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17 He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit. Eph2

The Law, given at Sinai, created a barrier between the Israelites and the Gentiles. Jesus, on the Cross, removed the barrier, the Law, and introduced to all mankind the new concept of loving our fellow man so much that we are willing to also give our lives to save others. Jn 15:9-14

Not all laws are the same. Many erroneously clump all the laws together and never bother to look at context to see which law is being referred to which can lead people down the wrong path.

Nehemiah 9:13 “You came down also on Mount Sinai, And spoke with them from heaven, And gave them just ordinances and true laws, Good statutes and commandments.

The law that is being referred to is certainly not the Ten Commandments.

One of the last scriptures before the Second Coming of Jesus Christ!

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs (sinners) and sorcerers (Breaking commandment #1 Exodus 20:3) and sexually immoral (breaking commandment #7 Exodus 20:14) and murderers (breaking commandment #6 Exodus 20:13) and idolaters (breaking commandment #2 Exodus 20:4-6), and whoever loves and practices a lie (breaking # 9 Exodus 20:16). The commandments are a unit of Ten Exodus 34:28 and James says you break one commandment quoting from the Ten we break them all. James 2:10-12

 

[BobRyan]

I have seen reference to ritual laws and moral laws. Ritual (ceremonial) laws fulfilled and magnified IN Christ. Moral laws simply common sense: do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

James 2 and Eph 6:1-2 place the TEN commandments in that group of moral laws ... that "define" what sin is according to John in 1 John 3:4

 

[Leaf473]

This is in response to post #1056 here:
Has the Holy Spirit explicitly led you to keep the Sabbath?

Now about throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

When someone presents me with a theology that has an obvious flaw, then there isn't really a baby imo.

The flaw in this case is people who adhere to the theology can't say which laws are for today.

The book of Leviticus is basically all commandments. Most of them are really clear, a lot of them we don't keep today. So it's not a matter of If a commandment is clear, be sure to keep it.

This leads us all back to post #563 above. Here is the question, if you wish to answer:
So... tithing is done differently every third year?

 

[Leaf473]

Bringing up another law for discussion, did this law end at the cross?

Deuteronomy 26
When you have finished tithing all the tithe of your increase in the third year, which is the year of tithing, then you shall give it to the Levite, to the foreigner, to the fatherless, and to the widow, that they may eat within your gates and be filled. 13 You shall say before the Lord your God, “I have put away the holy things out of my house, and also have given them to the Levite, to the foreigner, to the fatherless, and to the widow, according to all your commandment which you have commanded me. I have not transgressed any of your commandments, neither have I forgotten them. 14 I have not eaten of it in my mourning, neither have I removed any of it while I was unclean, nor given of it for the dead. I have listened to the Lord my God’s voice. I have done according to all that you have commanded me. 15 Look down from your holy habitation, from heaven, and bless your people Israel, and the ground which you have given us, as you swore to our fathers, a land flowing with milk and honey.”

 

[Filippus]

THE MEANING OF COLOSSIANS 2:16

Take Care

You simply don't like what Colossians 2:16 is saying, because it disproves your doctrine.

G4521 Transliteration: sabbaton

KJV Translation Count: 68x
The KJV translates Strongs G4521 in the following manner: sabbath day (37x), sabbath (22x), week (9x).

Mat 12:1

At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day G4521 through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat.

Mat 12:2

But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day. G4521

Mat 12:5

Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days G4521 the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, G4521 and are blameless?

Mat 12:8

For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day. G4521

Mat 12:10

And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? G4521 that they might accuse him.

Mat 12:11

And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, G4521 will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?

Mat 12:12

How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days. G4521

Are they also referring to the annual Sabbaths?

I only listed the first 7 verses.

Shalom

 

[SabbathBlessings]

You simply don't like what Colossians 2:16 is saying, because it disproves your doctrine.

G4521 Transliteration: sabbaton

KJV Translation Count: 68x
The KJV translates Strongs G4521 in the following manner: sabbath day (37x), sabbath (22x), week (9x).

Mat 12:1

At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day G4521 through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat.

Mat 12:2

But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day. G4521

Mat 12:5

Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days G4521 the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, G4521 and are blameless?

Mat 12:8

For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day. G4521

Mat 12:10

And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? G4521 that they might accuse him.

Mat 12:11

And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, G4521 will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?

Mat 12:12

How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days. G4521

Are they also referring to the annual Sabbaths?

I only listed the first 7 verses.

Shalom

Colossians 2:16 is not referring to the seventh day Sabbath, but the annual sabbath(s) because the seventh day Sabbath is not an ordinance-( see Colossians 2:14) it is a commandment of God, written by God’s own finger, not “handwritten” by Moses like the annual holy days, which are feast days and are about food and drink offerings which started after sin, the Sabbath started at creation before sin. Genesis 2:1-3. There is no food or drink in the 4th commandment, it is about spending time with God on his holy day.

The other verses you quoted are about the seventh day Sabbath. Context is key to understanding scripture.

God bless

 

[Filippus]

Colossians 2:16 is not referring to the seventh day Sabbath, but the annual sabbath(s) because the seventh day Sabbath is not an ordinance-( see Colossians 2:14) it is a commandment of God, written by God’s own finger, not “handwritten” by Moses like the annual holy days, which are feast days and are about food and drink offerings which started after sin, the Sabbath started at creation before sin. Genesis 2:1-3. There is no food or drink in the 4th commandment, it is about spending time with God on his holy day.

The other verses you quoted are about the seventh day Sabbath. Context is key to understanding scripture.

God bless

No your whole argument is built on the plural word Sabbaton.

Which is used frequently to refer to the exclusive weekly 7th day Sabbath, not the annual feast Sabbaths, the very link you deny, bringing an end to your argument.

Secondly the word Sabbath is the weekly festival defined in Lev23:3. The annual Sabbaths were referred to as holy convocation and although they are referred to as annual Sabbaths, the word Sabbaton simply refers to all of them, the very principle you cannot accept.

The only reason you and your brother keep on insisting that we are interpreting Col 2:16 incorrectly is because it is in direct conflict with your doctrine.

Shalom

 

[SabbathBlessings]

No your whole argument is built on the plural word Sabbaton.

Which is used frequently to refer to the exclusive weekly 7th day Sabbath, not the annual feast Sabbaths, the very link you deny, bringing an end to your argument.

Secondly the word Sabbath is the weekly festival defined in Lev23:3. The annual Sabbaths were referred to as holy convocation and although they are referred to as annual Sabbaths, the word Sabbaton simply refers to all of them, the very principle you cannot accept.

The only reason you and your brother keep on insisting that we are interpreting Col 2:16 incorrectly is because it is in direct conflict with your doctrine.

Shalom

There are more than one Sabbath in scripture which mean different things- those are the facts. The weekly Sabbath is the Lords holy day from these indisputable scriptures:

Exodus 20:10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord
Isaiah 58:13 “If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight,
The holy day of the Lord honorable,

I don’t think our Lord and Savior can get anymore clearer about the seventh day being the holy day of the Lord that He commanded us to keep holy too. Exodus 20:8-11. Notice in the 4th commandment, there is nothing about food or drink. The Ten Commandments which include the Sabbath commandment has nothing to do with food or drink offerings because the Sabbath was part of God’s perfect plan before sin. Genesis 2:1-3. The annual sabbath feasts days is all about food and drink offerings because of sin, completely different than the weekly Sabbath. So context is key and Col 2:14 explains 2:16. The weekly Sabbath will continue to be the Lord’s chosen day of worship for all eternity Isaiah 66:23 and not the day made by man. Jesus warns us about obeying man’s traditions over the commandments of God and directly quotes from the Ten. Matthew 15:3-9. No matter how hard people try to erase the 4th commandment that God told us to Remember- it is unchangeable, just like God promised. Exodus 31:16

We have free will and you’re free to believe what you want, but when the Lord speaks and tells us something important, like honoring the Lord on the Sabbath day which is defined as the seventh day, we should listen. There is no scripture in the entire bible abolishing God’s holy Sabbath and that Sunday is the new Sabbath. This is a teaching of man and not God. Take care

 

[Filippus]

There is no scripture in the entire bible abolishing God’s holy Sabbath and that Sunday is the new Sabbath. This is a teaching of man and not God. Take care

Except Colossians 2:16, the decision in Acts not to burden the Gentiles or the fact that we are in a new covenant.

Shalom

 

[Leaf473]

There are more than one Sabbath in scripture which mean different things- those are the facts. The weekly Sabbath is the Lords holy day from these indisputable scriptures:

Exodus 20:10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord
Isaiah 58:13 “If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight,
The holy day of the Lord honorable,

I don’t think our Lord and Savior can get anymore clearer about the seventh day being the holy day of the Lord that He commanded us to keep holy too. Exodus 20:8-11. Notice in the 4th commandment, there is nothing about food or drink. The Ten Commandments which include the Sabbath commandment has nothing to do with food or drink offerings because the Sabbath was part of God’s perfect plan before sin. Genesis 2:1-3. The annual sabbath feasts days is all about food and drink offerings because of sin, completely different than the weekly Sabbath. So context is key and Col 2:14 explains 2:16. The weekly Sabbath will continue to be the Lord’s chosen day of worship for all eternity Isaiah 66:23 and not the day made by man. Jesus warns us about obeying man’s traditions over the commandments of God and directly quotes from the Ten. Matthew 15:3-9. No matter how hard people try to erase the 4th commandment that God told us to Remember- it is unchangeable, just like God promised. Exodus 31:16

We have free will and you’re free to believe what you want, but when the Lord speaks and tells us something important, like honoring the Lord on the Sabbath day which is defined as the seventh day, we should listen. There is no scripture in the entire bible abolishing God’s holy Sabbath and that Sunday is the new Sabbath. This is a teaching of man and not God. Take care

___________________________

There is no scripture in the entire bible abolishing God’s holy Sabbath and that Sunday is the new Sabbath

I think the difficulty comes in trying to reconcile the teaching you put forward with the entire Bible.

I know you like to talk scripture, and so do I. Post #574 contains a law, or several laws. Do you find yourself following it to the letter?