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Notice it not once says unclean foods. They were already following the heath guidelines and would know this, but there is a deeper meaning here which @BobRyan already covered Jesus prophesied that we would be keeping the Sabbath until He returns in Matthew 24
But actually, I think I can agree in practice if we go with the idea that it's just talking about clean foods:Yes, I see that it doesn't say unclean foods, or clean foods.
Just that food doesn't improve our relationship with God. If you believe that a person must stop eating bacon in order to receive the Holy Spirit, that sounds like food would improve their relationship with God.
Our brother Bob's post seems to start with the assumption that the gentiles were weak. I don't share that assumption.
But actually, I think I can agree in practice if we go with the idea that it's just talking about clean foods:
"But clean foods will not commend us to God.
For if we don’t eat clean foods, we aren't any worse.
And if we do eat clean foods, we aren't any better."
Yes, I agree with that.
Okay... But about 1 Corinthians 8:8. When you say that unclean foods are not mentioned, then it looks like it must be talking about clean foods. So clean foods will not improve our relationship with God, and so on.This is not something that can be found in scripture.
This is what the Lord says so I do think we have to be careful not only what we eat, but how we take care of our bodies. Our bodies are the dwelling place of the Holy Spirit and if we defile our bodies with sin and unclean foods and things that are bad for us we are defiling the Holy Spirit. God never wants us to be unholy. Lev. 11:45 You shall therefore be holy, for I am holy.
God never claims food He deems as an abomination as something holy to eat.
Isaiah 66:17 “Those who sanctify themselves and purify themselves,
To go to the gardens
After an idol in the midst,
Eating swine’s flesh and the abomination and the mouse,
Shall be consumed together,” says the Lord.
They are talking about foods offered to idols. Not clean foods versus unclean foods.Okay... But about 1 Corinthians 8:8. When you say that unclean foods are not mentioned, then it looks like it must be talking about clean foods. So clean foods will not improve our relationship with God, and so on.
If you're using this from Acts 14They are talking about foods offered to idols. Not clean foods versus unclean foods.
Foods that were offered to idols were clean Acts 14:13 since foods that were offered to idols were clean it does not change our relationship with God. It's not referring being allowed to eat unclean foods that God deems an abomination.
If you're using this from Acts 14
The priest of Jupiter, whose temple was in front of their city, brought oxen and garlands to the gates, and would have made a sacrifice along with the multitudes.
to say that all food offered the idols was clean, then I think that's making a really big leap. Some of the animals they sacrificed were clean, some weren't.
"...the animal bones recovered from sanctuaries have yielded significant information about the handling of sacrificial animals, which ranged from dogs and horses to game, fish, and snakes."
https://academic.oup.com/edited-vol...334653021?redirectedFrom=fulltext&login=false
And the clean animals may have become unclean during the process:
Leviticus 11
Any food you are allowed to eat that has come into contact with water from any such pot is unclean, and any liquid that is drunk from such a pot is unclean.
I think that was one of the issues for eating meat sacrifice to idols. You didn't know what had happened to it along the way.
I don't see where it says they were clean. I see a particular instance where a particular clean animal was sacrificed.It doesn't say they were unclean in the bible which is what I follow.
Oxen are clean animals and there is nothing to indicate they used unclean animals from the scriptures.I don't see where it says they were clean. I see a particular instance where a particular clean animal was sacrificed.
If you want to take a passage that says a priest was bringing an ox and use that to mean that the ancient Greeks only sacrificed animals that were clean according to Leviticus 11, that's fine. It looks like quite a stretch to me.
I mean this gently, but if you're willing to stretch the scriptures that way, that's probably at the heart of our disagreements.
Yes, we agree that oxen were clean animals.Oxen are clean animals and there is nothing to indicate they used unclean animals from the scriptures.
I'm not sure how you would consider it a stretch when its what the scripture says and you have no scripture to indicate otherwise.The scriptures have to reconcile; it's not made up of a bunch of contradictions so if we see the end result of Isaiah 66:17 it means the scriptures can't say something otherwise.
Like I said, there is no scripture to indicate otherwise and in context it would not have been okay with God to eat unclean foods because God calls that an abomination.Yes, we agree that oxen were clean animals.
The scriptures talk about one time when an ancient Greek priest was offering a sacrifice, and it happened to be an ox.
If that means to you that every single time an ancient Greek priest sacrificed something, it was an ox... and that they followed the laws in Leviticus 11 about preparation... that's fine.
To me, and again I mean this gently, that goes against all common sense.
But hey, at least it looks like we found the real heart of why we disagree.
Peace be with you, my sister, and thank you for the friendly discussion.
Right, there's no scripture that says meat sacrifice to idols was unclean. The Bible spends very little time describing the practices of ancient Greek priests.Like I said, there is no scripture to indicate otherwise and in context it would not have been okay with God to eat unclean foods because God calls that an abomination.
Peace be with you as well and God bless!
Is there a scripture that clearly says you can break the letters of Deuteronomy 26?
Scriptures seems pretty clear to me.
Since we're having a good time discussing the law, you could follow up on Deuteronomy 26 at this time, if you wish.I gather from your response that you don't want to talk about this anymore with me.
If that's the case, then Peace be with you, my sister!
Revelation 2:12-16 And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges;[13] I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast My name and hast not denied My faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was My faithful martyr, who was slain among you where Satan dwelleth.[14] But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols and to commit fornication.[15] So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.[16] Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of My mouth.
Revelation 2:20-24 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce My servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.[21] And I gave her space to repent of her fornication, and she repented not.[22] Behold, I will cast her into a bed and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.[23] And I will kill her children with Death, and all the churches shall know that I am He which searcheth the reins and hearts, and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.[24] But unto you I say--and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine--and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.
Where was Jezebel given space to repent? unless she was in Pergamos, too. And Antipas must have passed the devil's test in Smyrna... there's no Repent being asked of them. The only Repentance for Ephesus required her return to the strength of her first love, after she'd rooted out the false-sent-ones and therefore, stopped trusting her brethren.
But here's the thing. Eating things sacrificed to idols, in the Revelation... fornication is always part of it. And fornication means to commit adultery. And spiritual adultery was the cause of the captivities of the House of Israel and the House of Judah.
So the Revelation belongs to the Gospel of Kingdom of Heaven for the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel.
It isn't part of the gospel to the gentiles who can eat in the temple of the idol.
What you believe about the gospel to the gentiles is up to you.So, big picture... You're saying that it was okay for the gentiles in Corinth to eat in the temple of an idol? If so, we agree.
I just think all the scripture has to reconcile.Right, there's no scripture that says meat sacrifice to idols was unclean. The Bible spends very little time describing the practices of ancient Greek priests.
This is totally off topic, but it will help me to understand your mindset:
Are you a flat earther?
No I believe the scriptures:Are you a flat earther?
Thank you for your answersI think perhaps you are missing the bigger picture and that is scripture has to reconcile.
No I believe the scriptures:
Isaiah 40:22
He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth,
and its people are like grasshoppers.
He stretches out the heavens like a canopy,
and spreads them out like a tent to live in.
The scriptures have to reconcile; it's not made up of a bunch of contradictions so if we see the end result of Isaiah 66:17 it means the scriptures can't say something otherwise.
In your words how do these two scriptures relate to my post, just so I understand the context you are trying to apply here.Isaiah 66:1-2 Thus says [the] Lord, The Heaven [is] My throne, and the earth a footstool for My feed. What kind of a house shall you build to Me? and what kind of place for My rest?[2] For all these [things] I made by My hand, and all these are Mine, says [the] Lord. And upon whom shall I look upon, but only upon the humble and unassuming and [the] one trembling at My words?LXX
Jeremiah 7:22-23 For I spoke not to your fathers and commanded them not in the day wherein I brought them up out of the land of Egypt, concerning whole-burnt-offerings and sacrifice.[23] But I commanded them this thing, saying, Hear ye My voice and I will be to you a God and ye shall be to Me a people: and walk ye in all My ways which I shall command you that it may be well with you.LXX
The scriptures have to reconcile; it's not made up of a bunch of contradictions so if we see the end result of Isaiah 66:17 it means the scriptures can't say something otherwise.
Isaiah 66:1-2 Thus says [the] Lord, The Heaven [is] My throne, and the earth a footstool for My feed. What kind of a house shall you build to Me? and what kind of place for My rest?[2] For all these [things] I made by My hand, and all these are Mine, says [the] Lord. And upon whom shall I look upon, but only upon the humble and unassuming and [the] one trembling at My words?LXX
Jeremiah 7:22-23 For I spoke not to your fathers and commanded them not in the day wherein I brought them up out of the land of Egypt, concerning whole-burnt-offerings and sacrifice.[23] But I commanded them this thing, saying, Hear ye My voice and I will be to you a God and ye shall be to Me a people: and walk ye in all My ways which I shall command you that it may be well with you.LXX
In your words how do these two scriptures relate to my post, just so I understand the context you are trying to apply here.
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