Did all the laws end at the cross- Part 2

[Leaf473]

Is it building up or tearing down to let others know that sin will keep all those who knowingly practice it our of God's kingdom. If you answer tearing down then how do you reconcile what Paul and Jesus say in Hebrews 10:26-27; John 8:24; Luke 13:3? Is it love or hate to warn others that if they continue in known unrepentant sin they will not enter into the Kingdom of God?

It can be done in a way that builds up, or a way that tears down. It can be done in love, or with hate.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

It doesn't quite clear things up yet. When you say:

Are you referring to the ten commandments plus some other laws?
And by "disobey' do you mean disobey the letters or disobey the principles?

Grace and peace to you!

It is not very hard. The scriptures teach to him that knows to do good and does not do it to him it sin *James 4:17. That is if God gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word and we reject it and continue in unbelief and sin then we remain in sin known unrepentant sin because we do not believe and obey what God's Word says after he has given us a knowledge of what His Word says. (see also Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31 compare Hebrews 10:26-27. Whatsoever is not of faith according to the scriptures is sin *Romans 14:23 once we receive the letter of God's Word and reject it in unbelief in order to continue in the sin that has been revealed to us from the scriptures. Let me give you an example and ask you a question.

Just say we have a Christian friend in the Church but we just found out that our friend is living a life in sin committing adultery with his neighbors wife, but our friend is only a new Christian and does not know that committing adultery is sin. Our friend as a new Christian is living up to all that he knows about in the scriptures as a babe in Christ. Does God hold him accountable for the sins he does not yet know about? (see the answer from the scriptures provided in James 4:17 and Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31.). The answer is no because our friend does not know that living in adultery with his neighbors wife is sin yet because he does not know much about God's Word.

Now let's say that our new Christian friend finds out through the scriptures that committing adultery is sin according to the scriptures and it has been revealed to him through the scriptures that committing adultery which is against God's 10 commandments (see Exodus 20:14; James 2:10-11; 1 John 3:4; Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7) is sin according to the scriptures, but he loves his neighbors wife and does not want to give her up but chooses instead to continue now in known unrepentant sin after God gives him a knowledge of the truth through His Word but our friend instead chooses to reject Gods' Word in order to continue in known unrepentant sin.

Is our friend now in a saved state with God or an unsaved state with God (the answer is provided in Hebrews 10:26-31) and that answer according to the scriptures is no they have rejected God's Word through unbelief in order to continue in the now known unrepentant sin of adultery rejecting the gift of Gods dear son and counting the blood of the covenant an unholy thing doing despite to the Spirit of God's grace wounding the son of God afresh in their sins. This is when we are all held accountable for sin and why it is written; "For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries." - Hebrews 10:26-27.

Take Care.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Is it building up or tearing down to let others know that sin will keep all those who knowingly practice it our of God's kingdom? If you answer tearing down then how do you reconcile what Paul and Jesus say in Hebrews 10:26-27; John 8:24; Luke 13:3? Is it love or hate to warn others that if they continue in known unrepentant sin they will not enter into the Kingdom of God?

Your response here.

It can be done in a way that builds up, or a way that tears down. It can be done in love, or with hate.

And who are we to judge another mans heart and motives for sharing Gods' Word *Romans 2:1-6? Your post here is non-responsive to the post you are quoting from and does not address or answer anything in it.

 

[guevaraj]

Right, so is it fair to say that we don't keep the law the same way that Jesus did?

Brother, happy Sabbath! No, we keep the law like Jesus, only the situation has changed. Jesus is no longer in the earthly temple before the incarnation, to "appear before" Him there. Now every place on earth is equally close to the heavenly temple where Jesus is currently serving as our High Priest until He returns. That is why now is the time to correct the human tradition of the Sabbath in Hebrews 3 and 4, which was not necessary while the temple in Jerusalem was the center of life, with animal sacrifices before Jesus.

“You must celebrate the Festival of Harvest with the first crop of the wheat harvest, and celebrate the Festival of the Final Harvest at the end of the harvest season. Three times each year every man in Israel must appear before the Sovereign, the LORD, the God of Israel. I will drive out the other nations ahead of you and expand your territory, so no one will covet and conquer your land while you appear before the LORD your God three times each year. (Exodus 34:22-24 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[guevaraj]

It can be done in a way that builds up, or a way that tears down. It can be done in love, or with hate.

Brother, there is hope even when you fall into known sin, if only, unlike David, you will seek God's forgiveness. The sacrifice of Jesus is for when we turn to Him as our High Priest, serving daily in the heavenly temple. If we don't go to Jesus daily, there is no sacrifice for our known sin, as in the case of David, who did not seek forgiveness before God intervened through Nathan, His prophet. Like David, if you don't seek God's forgiveness, there is no sacrifice to cover your known sin. We may not always obey, like David, but we can always seek forgiveness. David was lost without God intervening with Nathan because he did not seek God's forgiveness to deal with his known sin according to God's provision to learn not to fall into known sin, as a child learns to walk by repeatedly getting up through God's forgiveness until we learn not to fall into known sin.

So the Lord sent Nathan the prophet to tell David this story: “There were two men in a certain town. One was rich, and one was poor. The rich man owned a great many sheep and cattle. The poor man owned nothing but one little lamb he had bought. He raised that little lamb, and it grew up with his children. It ate from the man’s own plate and drank from his cup. He cuddled it in his arms like a baby daughter. One day a guest arrived at the home of the rich man. But instead of killing an animal from his own flock or herd, he took the poor man’s lamb and killed it and prepared it for his guest.” David was furious. “As surely as the Lord lives,” he vowed, “any man who would do such a thing deserves to die! He must repay four lambs to the poor man for the one he stole and for having no pity.” Then Nathan said to David, “You are that man! (2 Samuel 12:1-7a NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Leaf473]

It is not very hard. The scriptures teach to him that knows to do good and does not do it to him it sin *James 4:17. That is if God gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word and we reject it and continue in unbelief and sin then we remain in sin known unrepentant sin because we do not believe and obey what God's Word says after he has given us a knowledge of what His Word says. (see also Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31 compare Hebrews 10:26-27. Whatsoever is not of faith according to the scriptures is sin *Romans 14:23 once we receive the letter of God's Word and reject it in unbelief in order to continue in the sin that has been revealed to us from the scriptures. Let me give you an example and ask you a question.

Just say we have a Christian friend in the Church but we just found out that our friend is living a life in sin committing adultery with his neighbors wife, but our friend is only a new Christian and does not know that committing adultery is sin. Our friend as a new Christian is living up to all that he knows about in the scriptures as a babe in Christ. Does God hold him accountable for the sins he does not yet know about? (see the answer from the scriptures provided in James 4:17 and Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31.). The answer is no because our friend does not know that living in adultery with his neighbors wife is sin yet because he does not know much about God's Word.

Now let's say that our new Christian friend finds out through the scriptures that committing adultery is sin according to the scriptures and it has been revealed to him through the scriptures that committing adultery which is against God's 10 commandments (see Exodus 20:14; James 2:10-11; 1 John 3:4; Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7) is sin according to the scriptures, but he loves his neighbors wife and does not want to give her up but chooses instead to continue now in known unrepentant sin after God gives him a knowledge of the truth through His Word but our friend instead chooses to reject Gods' Word in order to continue in known unrepentant sin.

Is our friend now in a saved state with God or an unsaved state with God (the answer is provided in Hebrews 10:26-31) and that answer according to the scriptures is no they have rejected God's Word through unbelief in order to continue in the now known unrepentant sin of adultery rejecting the gift of Gods dear son and counting the blood of the covenant an unholy thing doing despite to the Spirit of God's grace wounding the son of God afresh in their sins. This is when we are all held accountable for sin and why it is written; "For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries." - Hebrews 10:26-27.

Take Care.

You say you're going to ask me a question and I see one question mark in your post:
"Does God hold him accountable for the sins he does not yet know about?"

The direct answer to your question is No, God doesn't hold him accountable.

However, I seriously question whether it is possible for him not to know.

Romans tells us that even people who don't have the law still have some knowledge of the requirements of the law.

Now... do you say that his actions are a sin because he is
breaking the letter of the law,
breaking the principle of the law,
or both?

 

[Leaf473]

Brother, happy Sabbath! No, we keep the law like Jesus, only the situation has changed. Jesus is no longer in the earthly temple before the incarnation, to "appear before" Him there. Now every place on earth is equally close to the heavenly temple where Jesus is currently serving as our High Priest until He returns. That is why now is the time to correct the human tradition of the Sabbath in Hebrews 3 and 4, which was not necessary while the temple in Jerusalem was the center of life, with animal sacrifices before Jesus.

“You must celebrate the Festival of Harvest with the first crop of the wheat harvest, and celebrate the Festival of the Final Harvest at the end of the harvest season. Three times each year every man in Israel must appear before the Sovereign, the LORD, the God of Israel. I will drive out the other nations ahead of you and expand your territory, so no one will covet and conquer your land while you appear before the LORD your God three times each year. (Exodus 34:22-24 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Okay... Is it fair to say that since the situation has changed, our actions will be different from Jesus' actions?

 

[Leaf473]

Brother, there is hope even when you fall into known sin, if only, unlike David, you will seek God's forgiveness. The sacrifice of Jesus is for when we turn to Him as our High Priest, serving daily in the heavenly temple. If we don't go to Jesus daily, there is no sacrifice for our known sin, as in the case of David, who did not seek forgiveness before God intervened through Nathan, His prophet. Like David, if you don't seek God's forgiveness, there is no sacrifice to cover your known sin. We may not always obey, like David, but we can always seek forgiveness. David was lost without God intervening with Nathan because he did not seek God's forgiveness to deal with his known sin according to God's provision to learn not to fall into known sin, as a child learns to walk by repeatedly getting up through God's forgiveness until we learn not to fall into known sin.

So the Lord sent Nathan the prophet to tell David this story: “There were two men in a certain town. One was rich, and one was poor. The rich man owned a great many sheep and cattle. The poor man owned nothing but one little lamb he had bought. He raised that little lamb, and it grew up with his children. It ate from the man’s own plate and drank from his cup. He cuddled it in his arms like a baby daughter. One day a guest arrived at the home of the rich man. But instead of killing an animal from his own flock or herd, he took the poor man’s lamb and killed it and prepared it for his guest.” David was furious. “As surely as the Lord lives,” he vowed, “any man who would do such a thing deserves to die! He must repay four lambs to the poor man for the one he stole and for having no pity.” Then Nathan said to David, “You are that man! (2 Samuel 12:1-7a NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

And we see that the prophet Nathan could do that in love, even though his words were harsh.

Proverbs 27
Faithful are the wounds of a friend; although the kisses of an enemy are profuse.

 

[expos4ever]

What do you think Hebrews 8:10-12 is a metaphor over?

It is the same metaphor, and, as such, it is robbed of its power for the very reasons outlined in my post. Note what you are doing: you are evading (again). You are not addressing the very essence of my argument which is this: saying that we simply "internalize" the words of an otherwise written code is but a trivial change of form. This does great violence to a rich metaphor which, as Paul says, points to an instinctive knowing.

BTW context shows that Romans 2:14 is an example about the law written on the heart.

Indeed, and it supports my argument since it rather clearly indicates we can know what God wants us to do without having to refer to a "list".

So Romans 2:14 does not delete the context already provided you have left out in Romans 2:11-13

This is another example of telling us something that is true, but it is not relevant to the matter at issue. Please explain to us how verses 11-13 might cause us to not take Paul at his word in verse 14 when he writes that Gentile believers have an instinctive knowledge of how God wants us to live (such knowledge, being instinctive, means we do not need to refer to the written code).

 

[LoveGodsWord]

You say you're going to ask me a question and I see one question mark in your post: "Does God hold him accountable for the sins he does not yet know about?" The direct answer to your question is No, God doesn't hold him accountable. However, I seriously question whether it is possible for him not to know.

Just the fact that the scriptures tell is that we can sin in ignorance in James 4:17; Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31 and Hebrews 10:26-27 should put any doubts and questions you have to rest here. Can we become fully grown men and women in Christ understanding the meat of the Word of God before we are babes in Christ desiring the sincere milk of the Word of God growing in Gods' Grace? Does this make sense to you? If someone does not know God's Word then how can they know what God wants them to do? - They cannot which is why God says in times of ignorance when we do not know any better he winks at as growing Christians but when He gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word calls all men everywhere to believe and follow what His Word says.

Romans tells us that even people who don't have the law still have some knowledge of the requirements of the law.

Actually Romans says no such thing. Romans 2:12 says as many has have sinned without the law shall perish without the law and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law. For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. Paul in Romans 2:14-19 then goes on to contrast the law written on the heart with the law not written on the heart between the Jew and the Gentile. So once again here we are talking about different things. We are not talking about believers verses unbelievers and ignorance of sin we are talking about Gods Grace for those in Christ who are believers and known and unknown sin.

Now... do you say that his actions are a sin because he is breaking the letter of the law, breaking the principle of the law, or both?

Why would you expect me to bother answering your questions any more when the answers have already been provided to you in the posts you are ignoring and you refuse to answer any questions I ask of you that were only asked to help the conversation based around the scriptures to help you to answer your own questions for yourself that are based on the scriptures? - Perhaps you can pray about it.

Take Care.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

It is the same metaphor, and, as such, it is robbed of its power for the very reasons outlined in my post. Note what you are doing: you are evading (again). You are not addressing the very essence of my argument which is this: saying that we simply "internalize" the words of an otherwise written code is but a trivial change of form. This does great violence to a rich metaphor which, as Paul says, points to an instinctive knowing. Indeed, and it supports my argument since it rather clearly indicates we can know what God wants us to do without having to refer to a "list".

Hebrews 8:10-12 is not a metaphor according to the scriptures. It is Gods' new covenant promise of salvation from sin in all those who believe and follow what God's Word says through faith. It is Gods' promise given to His people in Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27.

Please explain to us how verses 11-13 might cause us to not take Paul at his word in verse 14 when he writes that Gentile believers have an instinctive knowledge of how God wants us to live (such knowledge, being instinctive, means we do not need to refer to the written code).

No problem. The context shows that Romans 2:14 is an example about the law written on the heart. Context in Romans 2:11-13 is saying [11] For there is no respect of persons with God. [12], For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; [13], For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. So Romans 2:14 does not delete the context already provided you have left out in Romans 2:11-13 so you were disregarding the scripture context which needs to be considered. It is not a good practice to pull scriptures out of their context and put interpretations on them that they are not talking about.

Take Care.

 

[Leaf473]

Just the fact that the scriptures tell is that we can sin in ignorance in James 4:17; Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31 and Hebrews 10:26-27 should put any doubts and questions you have to rest here. Can we become fully grown men and women in Christ understanding the meat of the Word of God before we are babes in Christ desiring the sincere milk of the Word of God growing in Gods' Grace? Does this make sense to you? If someone does not know God's Word then how can they know what God wants them to do? - They cannot which is why God says in times of ignorance when we do not know any better he winks at as growing Christians but when He gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word calls all men everywhere to believe and follow what His Word says.

Actually Romans says no such thing. Romans 2:12 says as many has have sinned without the law shall perish without the law and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law. For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. Paul in Romans 2:14-19 then goes on to contrast the law written on the heart with the law not written on the heart between the Jew and the Gentile. So once again here we are talking about different things. We are not talking about believers verses unbelievers and ignorance of sin we are talking about Gods Grace for those in Christ who are believers and known and unknown sin.

Why would you expect me to bother answering your questions any more when the answers have already been provided to you in the posts you are ignoring and you refuse to answer any questions I ask of you that were only asked to help the conversation based around the scriptures to help you to answer your own questions for yourself that are based on the scriptures? - Perhaps you can pray about it.

Take Care.

Thank you for the nice long post. I'm going to answer in sections.

Starting here

Just the fact that the scriptures tell is that we can sin in ignorance in James 4:17; Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31 and Hebrews 10:26-27 should put any doubts and questions you have to rest here.

I agree that it is possible for a person to sin in ignorance. But we were talking about a very specific sin, adultery. I think every person has some knowledge of good and evil, and adultery is part of that.

 

[Leaf473]

Just the fact that the scriptures tell is that we can sin in ignorance in James 4:17; Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31 and Hebrews 10:26-27 should put any doubts and questions you have to rest here. Can we become fully grown men and women in Christ understanding the meat of the Word of God before we are babes in Christ desiring the sincere milk of the Word of God growing in Gods' Grace? Does this make sense to you? If someone does not know God's Word then how can they know what God wants them to do? - They cannot which is why God says in times of ignorance when we do not know any better he winks at as growing Christians but when He gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word calls all men everywhere to believe and follow what His Word says.

Actually Romans says no such thing. Romans 2:12 says as many has have sinned without the law shall perish without the law and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law. For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. Paul in Romans 2:14-19 then goes on to contrast the law written on the heart with the law not written on the heart between the Jew and the Gentile. So once again here we are talking about different things. We are not talking about believers verses unbelievers and ignorance of sin we are talking about Gods Grace for those in Christ who are believers and known and unknown sin.

Why would you expect me to bother answering your questions any more when the answers have already been provided to you in the posts you are ignoring and you refuse to answer any questions I ask of you that were only asked to help the conversation based around the scriptures to help you to answer your own questions for yourself that are based on the scriptures? - Perhaps you can pray about it.

Take Care.

And now this part:

Can we become fully grown men and women in Christ understanding the meat of the Word of God before we are babes in Christ desiring the sincere milk of the Word of God growing in Gods' Grace?

No, I don't think so.

 

[Leaf473]

Just the fact that the scriptures tell is that we can sin in ignorance in James 4:17; Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31 and Hebrews 10:26-27 should put any doubts and questions you have to rest here. Can we become fully grown men and women in Christ understanding the meat of the Word of God before we are babes in Christ desiring the sincere milk of the Word of God growing in Gods' Grace? Does this make sense to you? If someone does not know God's Word then how can they know what God wants them to do? - They cannot which is why God says in times of ignorance when we do not know any better he winks at as growing Christians but when He gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word calls all men everywhere to believe and follow what His Word says.

Actually Romans says no such thing. Romans 2:12 says as many has have sinned without the law shall perish without the law and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law. For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. Paul in Romans 2:14-19 then goes on to contrast the law written on the heart with the law not written on the heart between the Jew and the Gentile. So once again here we are talking about different things. We are not talking about believers verses unbelievers and ignorance of sin we are talking about Gods Grace for those in Christ who are believers and known and unknown sin.

Why would you expect me to bother answering your questions any more when the answers have already been provided to you in the posts you are ignoring and you refuse to answer any questions I ask of you that were only asked to help the conversation based around the scriptures to help you to answer your own questions for yourself that are based on the scriptures? - Perhaps you can pray about it.

Take Care.

And now this part:

Does this make sense to you?

Yes, we can sin in ignorance and we can grow in Christ.

 

[Leaf473]

Just the fact that the scriptures tell is that we can sin in ignorance in James 4:17; Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31 and Hebrews 10:26-27 should put any doubts and questions you have to rest here. Can we become fully grown men and women in Christ understanding the meat of the Word of God before we are babes in Christ desiring the sincere milk of the Word of God growing in Gods' Grace? Does this make sense to you? If someone does not know God's Word then how can they know what God wants them to do? - They cannot which is why God says in times of ignorance when we do not know any better he winks at as growing Christians but when He gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word calls all men everywhere to believe and follow what His Word says.

Actually Romans says no such thing. Romans 2:12 says as many has have sinned without the law shall perish without the law and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law. For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. Paul in Romans 2:14-19 then goes on to contrast the law written on the heart with the law not written on the heart between the Jew and the Gentile. So once again here we are talking about different things. We are not talking about believers verses unbelievers and ignorance of sin we are talking about Gods Grace for those in Christ who are believers and known and unknown sin.

Why would you expect me to bother answering your questions any more when the answers have already been provided to you in the posts you are ignoring and you refuse to answer any questions I ask of you that were only asked to help the conversation based around the scriptures to help you to answer your own questions for yourself that are based on the scriptures? - Perhaps you can pray about it.

Take Care.

And now this part:

If someone does not know God's Word then how can they know what God wants them to do? - They cannot which is why God says in times of ignorance when we do not know any better he winks at as growing Christians but when He gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word calls all men everywhere to believe and follow what His Word says.

They can know what God wants them to do because Adam and Eve ate the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Adam and Eve became like God, knowing good and evil. I believe they passed that knowledge on to their children. Of course, that knowledge is not as refined as the law that was given through Moses.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Thank you for the nice long post. I'm going to answer in sections. Starting here I agree that it is possible for a person to sin in ignorance. But we were talking about a very specific sin, adultery. I think every person has some knowledge of good and evil, and adultery is part of that.

That is not biblical for those who do not know God's law and what is right and what is wrong. According to the scriptures is Gods' law that gives us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and if we break anyone of them according to James we stand guilty before God of sin. Even many laws in western society that we have today is based on God's Word. So it is through the law we have a knowledge of what sin is and adultery is one of them *Exodus 20:14. So if your talking about adultery, talking God's name in vain, lying or stealing it really makes no difference to the example provided earlier. If a new Christian does not know something is sin and adultery only being used as an obvious example then it is a sin of ignorance that God does not hold us accountable for until he gives us a knowledge that what we are doing is sin. At this point we are held accountable for sin once we have been given a knowledge of the truth of His Word.

Take Care.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

LoveGodsWord said: ↑ Just the fact that the scriptures tell is that we can sin in ignorance in James 4:17; Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31 and Hebrews 10:26-27 should put any doubts and questions you have to rest here. Can we become fully grown men and women in Christ understanding the meat of the Word of God before we are babes in Christ desiring the sincere milk of the Word of God growing in Gods' Grace? Does this make sense to you? If someone does not know God's Word then how can they know what God wants them to do? - They cannot which is why God says in times of ignorance when we do not know any better he winks at as growing Christians but when He gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word calls all men everywhere to believe and follow what His Word says.

Actually Romans says no such thing. Romans 2:12 says as many has have sinned without the law shall perish without the law and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law. For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. Paul in Romans 2:14-19 then goes on to contrast the law written on the heart with the law not written on the heart between the Jew and the Gentile. So once again here we are talking about different things. We are not talking about believers verses unbelievers and ignorance of sin we are talking about Gods Grace for those in Christ who are believers and known and unknown sin.

Why would you expect me to bother answering your questions any more when the answers have already been provided to you in the posts you are ignoring and you refuse to answer any questions I ask of you that were only asked to help the conversation based around the scriptures to help you to answer your own questions for yourself that are based on the scriptures? - Perhaps you can pray about it.

Your response here...

And now this part:
No, I don't think so.

Then your answer here has just proven my point. We need to have a knowledge of Gods' Word in order to follow Gods' Word more fully from being babes in Christ when we first believe. This is called Christian growth. We all start off as babes in Christ desiring the sincere milk of the Word learning what God's Word says. During this time God holds us accountable to what we know, not what we do not know and in times of our ignorance God winks at *James 4:17; Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31 but as we grow in the knowledge of His Grace he expects us to believe and follow what His Word says.

God bless.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

LoveGodsWord said: ↑ Just the fact that the scriptures tell is that we can sin in ignorance in James 4:17; Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31 and Hebrews 10:26-27 should put any doubts and questions you have to rest here. Can we become fully grown men and women in Christ understanding the meat of the Word of God before we are babes in Christ desiring the sincere milk of the Word of God growing in Gods' Grace? Does this make sense to you? If someone does not know God's Word then how can they know what God wants them to do? - They cannot which is why God says in times of ignorance when we do not know any better he winks at as growing Christians but when He gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word calls all men everywhere to believe and follow what His Word says.

Actually Romans says no such thing. Romans 2:12 says as many has have sinned without the law shall perish without the law and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law. For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. Paul in Romans 2:14-19 then goes on to contrast the law written on the heart with the law not written on the heart between the Jew and the Gentile. So once again here we are talking about different things. We are not talking about believers verses unbelievers and ignorance of sin we are talking about Gods Grace for those in Christ who are believers and known and unknown sin.

Why would you expect me to bother answering your questions any more when the answers have already been provided to you in the posts you are ignoring and you refuse to answer any questions I ask of you that were only asked to help the conversation based around the scriptures to help you to answer your own questions for yourself that are based on the scriptures? - Perhaps you can pray about it.

Your response here...

And now this part: Yes, we can sin in ignorance and we can grow in Christ.

Absolutely Leaf! Then we are in full agreement. The discussion is flowing better now and easier to follow. Thanks for looking at each section of my posts and answering some helpful questions now.

God bless

 

[Leaf473]

Just the fact that the scriptures tell is that we can sin in ignorance in James 4:17; Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31 and Hebrews 10:26-27 should put any doubts and questions you have to rest here. Can we become fully grown men and women in Christ understanding the meat of the Word of God before we are babes in Christ desiring the sincere milk of the Word of God growing in Gods' Grace? Does this make sense to you? If someone does not know God's Word then how can they know what God wants them to do? - They cannot which is why God says in times of ignorance when we do not know any better he winks at as growing Christians but when He gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word calls all men everywhere to believe and follow what His Word says.

Actually Romans says no such thing. Romans 2:12 says as many has have sinned without the law shall perish without the law and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law. For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. Paul in Romans 2:14-19 then goes on to contrast the law written on the heart with the law not written on the heart between the Jew and the Gentile. So once again here we are talking about different things. We are not talking about believers verses unbelievers and ignorance of sin we are talking about Gods Grace for those in Christ who are believers and known and unknown sin.

Why would you expect me to bother answering your questions any more when the answers have already been provided to you in the posts you are ignoring and you refuse to answer any questions I ask of you that were only asked to help the conversation based around the scriptures to help you to answer your own questions for yourself that are based on the scriptures? - Perhaps you can pray about it.

Take Care.

And now this part:

Actually Romans says no such thing. Romans 2:12 says as many has have sinned without the law shall perish without the law and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law. For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. Paul in Romans 2:14-19 then goes on to contrast the law written on the heart with the law not written on the heart between the Jew and the Gentile. So once again here we are talking about different things. We are not talking about believers verses unbelievers and ignorance of sin we are talking about Gods Grace for those in Christ who are believers and known and unknown sin.

I think Romans does tells us that even people who don't have the law still have some knowledge of the requirements of the law.

"...even though they do not have the law. They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts..."
Romans 2 NIV

So,
1. They do not have the law.
2. The requirements of the law are written on their hearts

 

[LoveGodsWord]

LoveGodsWord said: ↑ If someone does not know God's Word then how can they know what God wants them to do? - They cannot which is why God says in times of ignorance when we do not know any better he winks at as growing Christians but when He gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word calls all men everywhere to believe and follow what His Word says.

Your response here...

They can know what God wants them to do because Adam and Eve ate the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Adam and Eve became like God, knowing good and evil. I believe they passed that knowledge on to their children. Of course, that knowledge is not as refined as the law that was given through Moses.

Kind of. There is the spoken Word of God that was passed down from Adam and Eve to their children so I agree with you as well. Today though we can also have God's Word passed down to us through our parents and friends, but for many they find it through the written Word of God in the scriptures. So God covers all bases here for all people. How great is that?