Democrats Likely to Make Same-Sex Marriage Part of Their Platform

truthseeker32

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And your comparison is also, meaningless; gay people do not have 3 sides. And no, the analogy does not hold, you compare gay people to triangles. Gay people are people not 2D shapes; otherwise the only place we'd ever see them is in a 2D space shooter "Om, nom, nom"
The purpose of the triangle was not to demonstrate that gay people are like shapes, but to demonstrate that certain entities, like triangles, have immutable definitions. A triangle will always be a three sided object that has interior angles that add up to 180 degrees. Likewise, the definition of marriage will always be a union of one man and one woman. This doesn't mean there can't be a union between two individuals of the same sex. It just means such a union does not fit the set definition of marriage, since a marriage by definition is the union of a heterosexual couple.
 
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127.0.0.1

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The way I see it, with Republicans, is this: they're not going to overturn Roe v. Wade. They like to dangle that "we'll end abortion for good!" thing right in front of Christians knowing full well it will never be overturned. They also will not turn back the tide of gaydom in America.

One of the reasons Roe v. Wade came about was because women were already getting abortions...and not necessarily from doctors. If you were to overturn that law, while it is an evil practice... you'd be back at square 1 again. What do we do about random individuals who claim to be abortion doctors with or without certification, and what do we do about women desperate enough to give themselves abortions with or without doctors?




And can I... just make a prediction here... a laughable one... on gay marriage.

Over half the country now supports gay marriage. Lots of people are gay...not just a specific subset out of SF but again, lots of people are gay.

One day the Republican Party is going to wake up an realize that... in a nation where the majority of voters support gay marriage...a lot of those voters will be Republicans. In fact there already are gay Republican groups.

The Republican Party will shift gears so fast... and they'll say "Yeah! Rainbow conservatism" "Look we have a gay R candidate!" And they'll have gay R Fox commentators...etc.

And then analysts will get on Fox News and say,
"Oh, will you look at that! Turns out it was Democrats, who fought tooth and nail to prevent gay marriage. Honestly, have they no shame! And can you believe they accuse us of opposing gay marriage.
What? Us? We would never, not after we realized that rich gay Republicans what to give tax cuts to the rich, and gut Social Security just like other neo-cons! VOTE REPUBLICAN!"

And to all the gay R voters, born without an irony gene, it'll make perfect sense.
 
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rusmeister

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I never wanted to vote Obama and still can't, but after Romney's pick of Paul Ryan I'm having trouble with that too. I wish I knew what to say too.

And I don't know enough about 3rd parties to take another risk. I wanted to vote this time, but I am having trouble again. I was willing to handle Romney but I'm not gung ho about his choice of VP. I don't know enough about him though, but something about him (Ryan) doesn't jive with me.

One thing I'll say, LB, is that if the two-party system has you choosing between candidates who both support immoral things that it would be immoral of you to support, the only logical answer is to refuse to vote.

When the voting system degrades to the point where the candidates offered by the political elite do not represent us at all, then the great response is to not vote. When enough people fail to vote, elections are invalidated. When we admit that we do not in fact rule anything by voting, we will find that we can act in the most adequate manner to the political situation. Certainly when we vote in a system where the votes do not give us what we actually want, we react inadequately.
 
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rusmeister

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But, says who?

Says the Orthodox Church.
The general political situation aside, you are sporting an Orthodox Cross in your ID. There is no controversy about same-sex relations in the Orthodox Church, there are only schismatic people who do not want to accept its teachings.

Please take it to St Justin's.
 
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rusmeister

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To the general TAW public I will say again that language is an enabler of the confusion in people's minds. There may be times and places for saying "people 'are' gay" - primarily when charity demands it, but when we are trying to speak truth and expose the lie, we must not use that language. It is specifically language of falsehood that enables people like our contentious member here to think what they do (assuming that it's not mere trolling). We must use either the language of our ancestors and the Church fathers, or modern terms that ARE completely true, such as "to suffer from same-sex attraction".
 
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rusmeister

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Sorry but are you actually Orthodox or an inquirer/ catechumen?

I believe it is our old friend Justin under a different name. Note the complete lack of personal identifying information.
 
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truthseeker32

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But, says who?
Aside from what Rus said, thousands of years of human tradition, which also defines what a dog is, what grass is, what most things are. The definition of marriage is totally apart from whether the union of two people of the same sex is wrong. The point is humanity has established a certain definition of marriage that has existed for thousands of years. Society can start calling same sex unions marriages, just like they can start considering and calling cats a kind of dog, but it does not change the kind of thing a cat is. A cat will still have the same characteristics that keep it outside the current definition of what a dog is.
 
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127.0.0.1

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Sorry but are you actually Orthodox or an inquirer/ catechumen?
I'm Orthodox.

I believe it is our old friend Justin under a different name. Note the complete lack of personal identifying information.
Um... no.

Can't call it marriage, well, you gotta call it something. Why not just call it, gay marriage, sine the pre-fix, gay, identifies it as being separate from straight marriage.
 
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One thing I'll say, LB, is that if the two-party system has you choosing between candidates who both support immoral things that it would be immoral of you to support, the only logical answer is to refuse to vote.

When the voting system degrades to the point where the candidates offered by the political elite do not represent us at all, then the great response is to not vote. When enough people fail to vote, elections are invalidated. When we admit that we do not in fact rule anything by voting, we will find that we can act in the most adequate manner to the political situation. Certainly when we vote in a system where the votes do not give us what we actually want, we react inadequately.
I understand rus, but what about that statement that goes like "if you don't vote, you shouldn't complain about the government" or something like that?
 
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rusmeister

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I understand rus, but what about that statement that goes like "if you don't vote, you shouldn't complain about the government" or something like that?
That statement is true if voting actually determines governmental policy, and completely false and irrelevant if it does not. I think that voting CAN determine some issues that our ruling plutocracy really doesn't care about. We might really turn the tide on abortion or creeping approval of all forms of sexual immorality - the issues we are allowed to vote on. It is the issues we are NOT allowed to vote on that prove that we do not in fact rule. Can we hold a national referendum to outlaw corporate lobbying? Don't hold your breath.

So I think there may be some small sense in voting (though I am thinking so less and less), if we soberly realize that we are not actually governing the country, that there is no democracy, but that we MAY be allowed to decide a few things. But we must let go of the idea that we vote for candidates who actually represent us, go into Congress or become Presidents and enact the kind of government we want.

But even then, we are left with the problem of trying to express that in a system that has us saying we support this candidate or that party when in fact we don't. How many TAW'ers want a Mormon for President? How many want to vote for a President that will advance sexual immorality? If the answer is zero, as it should be, then we must either insist that we are voting over policies, and not candidates or parties, or abandon voting altogether - the more revolutionary course. For if they have elections and nobody comes, then the government has no more pretense of its basis for existence and the plutocracy must declare itself nakedly.

The only solution I see is for people to abandon the current mechanism of voting that gives the illusion of democracy, and to vote, in their local communities among themselves, on a level of local organization, what government they will establish and tolerate, bypassing the existing political structures. Whether we do this or not, the time is coming when we will have no option but civil disobedience. We may refuse and avoid revolt. But as Christians, we cannot evade the latter when, like the Catholics are now being told, that we must enact immorality.

But pretending that the Democratic or Republican parties represent us, or that they will allow third parties to really oppose them (I think Ross Perot represented the high tide of a real last chance to end the two-party domination, though he was but another plutocrat) is simply self-deception. These mechanisms are not in any way democratic in any sense that means the people rule. We have the form, but not the essence of democracy. The essence is plutocratic.
 
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rusmeister

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I'm Orthodox.


Um... no.

Can't call it marriage, well, you gotta call it something.

And we do. We call it sin. Choosing to indulge one's passions rather than struggle with them and be holy. We are prepared to have great sympathy for people who suffer from passions, being such people ourselves. But we cannot accept that you call it what it is not.
 
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Dorothea

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But, says who?

God. He revealed it to His Church by showing the examples of His marriage to Israel and Christ and His Bride - the Church. That's why there was constant talk of infidelity of the Israelities to God, and God always being faith to her - Israel. Marriage is an icon of that. An icon of Christ and His Church. The first miracle was at the wedding at Cana, where Christ blesses the marriage of the man and woman.
 
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commando_arnold_schwarzenegger.jpg


Commando.
 
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Careful. If we go to a pure capitalist system, we won't have unions, won't have the ability as workers to collectively bargain, won't have social security or medicare or social safety nets for people, we won't have weekends/bereavement leave/sick time/maternity leave, we won't have income taxes (sounds great, but think of the implication of dropping them), and the top 1% will have ALL of the power with nothing to check their gross dominance over the middle and lower classes. There is a tension between the concepts of democracy and pure capitalism. I think the best option is a mix between the socialism that we see in Europe in some, emphasis on some, parts of their societies, and capitalism in others. Ideally, Chesterton's distributism would be the best model and the most Christian. Both communism and capitalism have the potential to do such damage!

I still say we bring back capitalism.
 
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rusmeister

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Careful. If we go to a pure capitalist system, we won't have unions, won't have the ability as workers to collectively bargain, won't have social security or medicare or social safety nets for people, we won't have weekends/bereavement leave/sick time/maternity leave, we won't have income taxes (sounds great, but think of the implication of dropping them), and the top 1% will have ALL of the power with nothing to check their gross dominance over the middle and lower classes. There is a tension between the concepts of democracy and pure capitalism. I think the best option is a mix between the socialism that we see in Europe in some, emphasis on some, parts of their societies, and capitalism in others. Ideally, Chesterton's distributism would be the best model and the most Christian. Both communism and capitalism have the potential to do such damage!


Good post, Gurney!
(Ask and ye shall receive! :) )
I would add and clarify that both socialism and capitalism actually DO such damage...
 
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