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Democrats keep impeachment alive by skirting House rules

Discussion in 'American Politics' started by NightHawkeye, Sep 12, 2019 at 12:34 PM.

  1. NightHawkeye

    NightHawkeye Work-in-progress Supporter

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    Impeachment Inquiry? Impeachment Investigation? Nadler Refuses to ‘Argue About Nomenclature’

    Nadler said, "The resolution before us represents the necessary next step in our investigation of corruption, obstruction, and abuse of power."
    ...
    Ranking Judiciary Committee Member Doug Collins (R-Ga.) said, "Welcome to Fantasy Island." He tweeted that the only way to launch authentic impeachment proceedings is for the full House to take a vote.

    "Democrats followed the yellow brick road, and now they’re fully lost in impeachment Oz -- try as they might, they can’t find their way out of the mess they’ve made because they think 'words don’t matter,'" Collins tweeted.

    House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) tweeted, "Democrats have NO IDEA what they are doing. Right at this moment they are holding an imaginary impeachment hearing that means nothing. But you can't impeach a president who hasn't done anything wrong!"
    ...
    "The problem is, currently what the law requires to impeach any president is a vote of the full House of Representatives on a resolution for articles of impeachment. Problem for the Democrats is, they've tried that three times and it failed three times. So today they want to change the rules to keep impeachment alive," Ratcliffe said
    .​
     
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  2. GoldenBoy89

    GoldenBoy89 We're Still Here

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    But you can't impeach a president who hasn't done anything wrong!"

    1. You can impeach a president who hasn’t done anything wrong. It might not go anywhere but you can do it.
    2. President Trump has done things that are wrong. The problem is Republicans have lowered their standards for unacceptable, impeachable behavior from a president.
     
  3. cow451

    cow451 Individual-2 Supporter

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    They have to do what they have to do because no GOP backbone has existed since 2016. Archaeologists are stunned by the disappearance of vertebrae in this subset of mammals.
     
  4. iluvatar5150

    iluvatar5150 Well-Known Member

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    Your article doesn't allege any skirting of any rules. The rules require a full House vote for an actual impeachment, not for an investigation.
     
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  5. NightHawkeye

    NightHawkeye Work-in-progress Supporter

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    Incorrect.

    Lawmakers Consider Resolution for Impeachment Procedures

    IN THE 206 YEARS THAT THIS COMMITTEE HAS SAT, IT HAS NEVER CONDUCTED AN IMPEACHMENT PROCEEDING WITHOUT FIRST BEING AUTHORIZED TO DO SO BY A VOTE OF THE FULL HOUSE. THAT'S BECAUSE THE POWER OF IMPEACHMENT BELONGS TO THE WHOLE HOUSE AND THE WHOLE HOUSE HAS NOT DELEGATED THAT POWER TO ANY OF ITS COMMITTEES. IT MUST FIRST MAKE THAT DELEGATION AND TO THIS DATE, IT HAS NOT. COMMITTEES ARE CREATURES OF THE HOUSE. THEIR ONLY POWERS ARE THOSE THAT ARE DELEGATED BY THE HOUSE. COMMITTEES CAN'T FREELANCE. IF THE MAJORITY WANTS TO EXERCISE THE HOUSE'S POWER OF IMPEACHMENT, ALL YOU GOT TO DO IS ASK THE HOUSE TO DO SO. ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS ASK THE HOUSE THAT IT DIRECT AND AUTHORIZE THIS COMMITTEE TO CONDUCT AN IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY. THAT'S ALL YOU HAVE TO DO. RESOLVE THAT THE HOUSE AUTHORIZES THE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE TO CONDUCT AN INQUIRY INTO THE IMPEACHMENT OF THE PRESIDENT. IT'S THAT SIMPLE.

    I DARE YOU TO DO IT. IN FACT, I DOUBLE DOG DARE YOU TO DO IT. HAVE THE HOUSE VOTE ON THOSE 18 WORDS AND THEN GO AT IT. WHY WON'T YOU DO THAT? IT'S BECAUSE YOU WANT TO GIVE THE ILLUSION OF IMPEACHMENT WITHOUT THE REALITY OF IT. YOU'RE DUPING THAT PORTION OF YOUR BASE THAT IS CLAMBERING FOR IMPEACHMENT INTO THINKING YOU ARE WHEN YOU AREN'T. SOME DEMOCRATS CAN TELL THEIR CONSTITUENCIES THEY'RE CONDUCTING AN IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY WHILE OTHERS CAN TELL THEIR CONSTITUENCIES THAT THEY AREN'T. YOU CAN HAVE YOUR IMPEACHMENT AND DENY IT TOO. THAT'S WHY YOU WON'T PASS THIS RESOLUTION.

    IF THIS PRESIDENT IS GUILTY OF SUCH HEINOUS CRIMES AS YOU IRRESPONSIBLEABLY CHARGE, WHY ARE YOU SO RELUCTANT TO IMPEACH HIM? IF YOU CAN ACTUALLY PROVE THESE ACCUSATIONS, WHY WON'T YOU DO SO BEFORE THE SUN GOES DOWN? YOU WON'T DO SO BECAUSE YOU CAN'T. AND IF YOU WANT TO KNOW WHAT AN ABUSE OF POWER TRULY LOOKS LIKE, IT LOOKS LIKE WHAT'S UNFOLDING RIGHT NOW
    .​

    - Tom McClintock (R) CA
     
  6. cow451

    cow451 Individual-2 Supporter

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    Lo6 like you proved Iluvatars’ point. It is a precedent but not violating a rule.
     
  7. NightHawkeye

    NightHawkeye Work-in-progress Supporter

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    As Tom McClintock pointed out, precedent is the rule ... just as precedent sets law in the legal system.
     
  8. whatbogsends

    whatbogsends Senior Veteran

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    It was also precedent for Presidents to not publicly side with foreign adversaries over your own intelligence agencies.

    Did Trump violate a Presidential rule in Helsinki?
     
  9. iluvatar5150

    iluvatar5150 Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps you or McClintock or someone else could show us all how/when the House Judiciary Committee was authorized by the full House to begin its impeachment investigation of Nixon in 1974.
     
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  10. NightHawkeye

    NightHawkeye Work-in-progress Supporter

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    The very way Tom McClintock has already indicated:
    Impeachment process against Richard Nixon - Wikipedia
    An impeachment process against Richard Nixon was formally initiated on February 6, 1974, when the United States House of Representatives passed a resolution, H.Res. 803, giving its Judiciary Committee authority to investigate whether sufficient grounds existed to impeach Richard Nixon, the 37th President of the United States of high crimes and misdemeanors, primarily related to the Watergate scandal.​

    You're welcome. Is there anything else you would like me to Google for you?
     
  11. iluvatar5150

    iluvatar5150 Well-Known Member

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    No, actually, that's perfect. I was hoping you'd give that answer, because as that page points out, preliminary investigations and proceedings began before that:

    Impeachment process against Richard Nixon - Wikipedia

    The Judiciary committee began its investigation in 1973 and both parties in the House had started hiring legal staff for the Impeachment Inquiry before that February 1974 vote.
     
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  12. NightHawkeye

    NightHawkeye Work-in-progress Supporter

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    Curiously, I don't see that stated anywhere there. Instead, I see numerous references to the fact that the Judiciary was reluctant to get involved with impeachment inquiries, despite a few house members formally calling for initiation of impeachment proceedings.

    Perhaps, you can provide a quote from the article to substantiate your claim?
     
  13. iluvatar5150

    iluvatar5150 Well-Known Member

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    It's the entire sub-section I linked to:

     
  14. cow451

    cow451 Individual-2 Supporter

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    Not hardly. But nice try.
     
  15. NightHawkeye

    NightHawkeye Work-in-progress Supporter

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    You're right of course. Democrats are quite free to ignore the civil precedents which have allowed the House of Representatives to function for more than two centuries. There is a price to be paid though. There's always a price.

    Not long after Harry Reid broke the filibuster precedent ... Democrats complained long and loud when Republicans, who had recaptured the Senate, decided to do the very same thing. Karma bites ...
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019 at 7:01 PM
  16. cow451

    cow451 Individual-2 Supporter

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    Welcome to America. The party in power decides the rules. The GOP sets the Senate rules, the Dems do it in the House.
     
  17. NightHawkeye

    NightHawkeye Work-in-progress Supporter

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    Noting that that's the way 3rd-world countries ... and tyrannical regimes ... operate.

    Anything to win ... the end justifies the means. :(
     
  18. cow451

    cow451 Individual-2 Supporter

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    The current President has always adhered to this philosophy. His fantasy is a Putin style government.
     
  19. NightHawkeye

    NightHawkeye Work-in-progress Supporter

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    Yet, curiously, Trump has not faced any criminal charges. Ever, that I know of ... despite being the target of a multi-year criminal investigation.

    His adversaries, the ones making unfounded allegations, are now beginning to face criminal prosecution ... for employing "end justifies the means" tactics. Jus' sayin ...
     
  20. essentialsaltes

    essentialsaltes Stranger in a Strange Land

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    IT HAS NEVER CONDUCTED AN IMPEACHMENT PROCEEDING

    I don't want to argue nomenclature either, but an impeachment investigation isn't an impeachment proceeding.

    YOU'RE DUPING THAT PORTION OF YOUR BASE THAT IS CLAMBERING FOR IMPEACHMENT INTO THINKING YOU ARE WHEN YOU AREN'T.

    Those of us here seem to understand just fine.
     
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