• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

Democrats - bold enough to get away with anything and everything without consequences.

Discussion in 'OBOB General Politics Forum' started by WarriorAngel, Aug 1, 2015.

  1. ebia

    ebia Senior Contributor

    +1,981
    Anglican
    Married
    AU-Greens
    Are you interested in why?
     
  2. ebia

    ebia Senior Contributor

    +1,981
    Anglican
    Married
    AU-Greens
    And that has what to do with the accuracy of the picture posted?
     
  3. MikeK

    MikeK Traditionalist Catholic

    +5,499
    Catholic
    Married
    I don't think that Israel killing Palestinians out-of-proportion to the violence being done to Israel is helping reverse that trend.
     
  4. Rationalt

    Rationalt Newbie

    +87
    Deist
    Married
    That out of portion retaliation is the only thing that discourages would be Jihadis.
     
  5. MikeK

    MikeK Traditionalist Catholic

    +5,499
    Catholic
    Married
    Militant jihadis don't tend to be all that concerned with their mortality and generally embrace the idea that their actions may result in their deaths. Do you really think that Israeli strikes that kill women and children are somehow reducing the ammount of people who would take up arms against Israel?
     
  6. LoAmmi

    LoAmmi Dispassionate

    +9,562
    Judaism
    Married
    I would disagree. Instead of holding out a hand to those they might be able to reach though chesed (loving-kindness), they are hitting them hard and having people watch their family members die. The only way to win that way is to eradicate the other side entirely. The good news is that Israel doesn't seem interested in systematic eratication. The bad news is that the policies they put in place only strengthen the resolve of those against them and prolong the conflict.

    I've said for years that the biggest problem in the entire conflict is that too many leaders on both sides remain in power only because of the conflict. They would become unnecessary if the problem was solved so they work hard to make sure it lingers.
     
  7. Rationalt

    Rationalt Newbie

    +87
    Deist
    Married
    That is why I said Would be Jihadis.
     
  8. MikeK

    MikeK Traditionalist Catholic

    +5,499
    Catholic
    Married
    This is the unfortunate truth. A slow boil benefits the powers that be on both sides more than peace and security do. If you're not capitalizing on your people's fears, you're not going to do well piolitically. Sometimes it's expedient to cause them to fear and promise them that you have the sollution.
     
  9. MikeK

    MikeK Traditionalist Catholic

    +5,499
    Catholic
    Married
    As in "would be if they weren't afraid to die?" They're already not taking up arms, they're already not strapping on suicide vests. Nobody is stating that Israel should not go after those individuals that attack her, the criticism is that there is far too often collateral damage that kills innocents. If an individual launches a mortar strike, strike than individual. Do not shell the building he is in or burn down the block he's on.
     
  10. LoAmmi

    LoAmmi Dispassionate

    +9,562
    Judaism
    Married
    Well, I do believe that quite often the Palestinian actions are overlooked and Israel's actions are put under intense scrutiny. I will point out that the idea of proportional warfare is foreign to Judaism, but that's just squabbling over the whole thing. I would like to see Israel take actions like feeding the hungry, sheltering the weak, and offering ways for people to dig themselves out of the poverty they are in. You aren't going to make everybody happy, but you've got to stop allowing people to settle closer and closer and start talking about a two state solution starting with the West Bank. Setup the state there and then see if they can put pressure to bring Gaza into a state of stability. The land swaps or whatever can be talked about later.

    Something missed is that a successful negotiation pretty much requires both sides to be somewhat disappointed in the results otherwise it is unfair. The Palestinians cannot just outright claim Jerusalem because Israel isn't giving that up and Israel cannot outright demand the all the land they currently possess because the Palestinians aren't going to allow themselves to be pushed into a tiny area.
     
  11. SolomonVII

    SolomonVII Well-Known Member

    +4,705
    Canada
    Catholic
    Married
    CA-Greens
    Nor should they.
     
  12. SolomonVII

    SolomonVII Well-Known Member

    +4,705
    Canada
    Catholic
    Married
    CA-Greens
    Moral equivalence that sees every country as equally bad is a fool's game, isn't it?
    Discernment has become a rare quality.
     
  13. ebia

    ebia Senior Contributor

    +1,981
    Anglican
    Married
    AU-Greens
    Clearly it isn't discouraging anyone.
     
  14. ebia

    ebia Senior Contributor

    +1,981
    Anglican
    Married
    AU-Greens
    It creates "jihadis". If you've been denied hope all your life, and then watched innocent members of your family killed in "retaliation", it fuels the hate and encourages you to join the struggle.
     
  15. MikeK

    MikeK Traditionalist Catholic

    +5,499
    Catholic
    Married
    Agreed. There are, unfortinately, people who will ignore the violence done to Israel because they hate Jews. That is most unfortunate. There are also people who whitewash any injustice Israel takes part in out of political expediency. This is also gravely wrong.

    You are right also about negotiations. The fairest deals are often those that leave both sides feeling they got ripped off. Truly just, fair solutions would be rejected by Israelies and Palestinians alike.
     
  16. classicalhero

    classicalhero Junior Member

    +398
    Baptist
    Single
    AU-Liberals
    What do you mean out of proportion? Each rocket has the ability to kill scores of people and yet Israel is just mean to sit back while rockets and mortars are fired at them? Lets not forget that more "Palestinian" have been killed in one year in Syria that in all of the conflicts between Israel and the "Palestinians". But considering the way they make such lists, I would be extremely wary of the lists, because for one when during the latest conflict, not one person died of natural causes or from foul play, which is absolutely remarkable in any conflict. But when you include such people as being children, then something wrong is with the casualties lists. http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com.au/2014/09/the-strangely-aged-14-year-old-martyr.html#.VcPb8d-Dhpg
    [​IMG]
    Pretty much doing what every 14 year old does in Gaza.
     
  17. ebia

    ebia Senior Contributor

    +1,981
    Anglican
    Married
    AU-Greens
    Missing the point, by pretending the statement:
    "Israel having nuclear weapons is bad" is the same as "Israel is as bad as Iran".

    The whole point of nuclear non-proliferation is that we don't want anyone to have them, not because any one country is likely to use them, but because each country that does have them forces the next to do so.
    Iran wants nukes because Pakistan and Israel have them.
    Pakistan built nukes because India did.
    If Iran gets them, that puts pressure on its neighbours who are at tension with it, combined with Israel having them,...

    Israel and India are not as badly governed as Iran. But Israel and India building nuclear weapons was every bit as bad as Iran doing so.


    Indeed
     
  18. SolomonVII

    SolomonVII Well-Known Member

    +4,705
    Canada
    Catholic
    Married
    CA-Greens
    Proportion must mean more than tit-for-tat. Proportion must be related to what must be done to win a clear and convincing victory over the enemy.
    Any response to violent attack against your people is not enough, if it does not bring victory.
    Disproportionate involves kicking people when they are down, after victory has already been achieved.

    Until the Palestinians feel themselves defeated in their goal to exterminate Israel, the correct level of proportionate response has not been reached.

    Under leftist influence, the West has become weak and effeminate and full of self-recrimination and doubt.
    Luckily for most of us, our enemies are technologically weaker, and we can afford to be soft, for the time being anyway.

    Israel cannot afford to be soft or weak. It started out as a socialist nation, albeit filled with the determination to survive that comes with their near extermination.
    Necessity has made Israel conservative.
     
  19. Rationalt

    Rationalt Newbie

    +87
    Deist
    Married
    Collateral damage is inevitable when terrorists walk among the civilians and they store missiles in tunnels right under schools, mosques, residences etc.
     
  20. Rationalt

    Rationalt Newbie

    +87
    Deist
    Married
    Spot on.
     
Loading...