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  1. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

    +3,138
    Non-Denom
    Hi Marilyn,

    The pope was both a political and a spiritual leader.

    2 Thess. 2:3-4 refers to a "naos" spiritual temple, collectively the Church, in which the son of perdition took up residence to wield spiritual authority.
     
  2. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

    +374
    Christian
    Private
    Regarding post 95, do you mean agree that, regarding Daniel 7:25 where it says the Antichrist will "change times", it isn't referring to a pope changing the time of the sabbath?

    If so, hopefully every Reformer would agree, based on the Bible itself, that Christians, whether Jews or Gentiles, don't have to keep the sabbath of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law. For even the letter of the 10 commandments written and engraven in stones (2 Corinthians 3:7, Deuteronomy 4:13) was part of the abolished Old Covenant Mosaic law's ministration of death (2 Corinthians 3:6-7, Exodus 31:15b), which has been replaced by the New Covenant (Jeremiah 31:31-34) ministration of the Spirit (2 Corinthians 3:6-18), in which Christians are delivered from the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law and keep the spirit (Romans 7:6) of all the Old Covenant Mosaic law's commandments by loving others (Romans 13:8-10).

    Saying Christians have to keep the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic-law sabbath is just as mistaken as saying Christians have to keep the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic-law circumcision (Acts 15:1-11). If Christians keep the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic-law sabbath thinking they have to because it's part of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law, they're as fallen from grace (Galatians 5:4) as Christians who keep the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic-law circumcision thinking they have to because it's part of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Galatians 5:2). They've become debtors to perform the letter of the entire Old Covenant Mosaic law (Galatians 5:3). They've placed themselves under its curse (Galatians 3:10, Deuteronomy 27:26).

    So no Christian should ever desire to go back into bondage under the letter of any part of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Galatians 4:21 to 5:8). Christians need to keep the sabbath only in spirit, not in the letter (Romans 7:6). Christians must never judge other Christians for not keeping the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic-law sabbath (Colossians 2:16), which letter was abolished on the New Covenant Cross of Jesus Christ along with all the rest of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Colossians 2:14-17, Ephesians 2:15-16, Romans 7:6, Hebrews 7:18-19, Hebrews 10:9b, Hebrews 10:1-23, Matthew 26:28).

    For its letter was merely a shadow; now it all comes down to Jesus Christ Himself (Colossians 2:17). Jesus' New Covenant sabbath rest (Matthew 11:28-30), which all Christians enter by faith (Hebrews 4:3-4), exceeds in righteousness (cf. Matthew 5:20) the abolished letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic-law sabbath. For under the New Covenant sabbath, Christians must cease from their own works, as in those done apart from abiding in Jesus (John 15:4-5), every day of the week (Hebrews 4:3,10, Luke 9:23). And they can esteem every day of the week (Romans 14:5).

    Also, Christians should be worshipping God every day of the week (Hebrews 13:15, cf. Psalms 145:2). And they should be meeting together every day of the week (Hebrews 3:13, Hebrews 10:25), at least in some fashion (Matthew 18:20), such as on this forum. The early Church started assembling together on the Lord's day (commonly called Sunday) instead of on the sabbath (commonly called Saturday) because the Lord's day, the 1st day of the week, was the day on which Jesus Christ physically resurrected (Mark 16:9) from the dead: "no longer observing the sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him" (Epistle of Ignatius to the Magnesians, chapter 9. Ignatius was a contemporary of the apostle John. Compare John's reference to "the Lord's day" in Revelation 1:10).

    But it's not a requirement for Christians to assemble together only on the Lord's day or to esteem the Lord's day above every other day of the week. It's also okay for Christians to choose to assemble together on the sabbath because they esteem the sabbath above every other day of the week. It's also okay for Christians to esteem every day of the week (Romans 14:5). Christians are never to judge each other over this matter but are simply to do what they believe Jesus Christ wants them as individuals to do (Romans 14:4-13). So the point isn't for Christians to esteem days but to focus on the person of Jesus Himself (Colossians 2:16-17).

    Also, how do those who think they must keep the letter of the Old Covenant sabbath, keep the letter of the sabbath of Leviticus 25?
     
  3. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

    +374
    Christian
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    Regarding post 96, do you mean agree that a 3rd Jewish temple must be built?

    If so, did the Reformers believe the state of Israel would be restored, as it was in 1948 AD?

    And if they all would have utterly rejected any idea put forth in their own time that the state of Israel would be restored, then they were mistakenly rejecting the truth regarding what would happen in the future, just as it's a mistake today for Christians to reject the idea that a 3rd Jewish temple must be built.

    One reason the 3rd Jewish temple of Revelation 11:1-2, Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31,36 and 2 Thessalonians 2:4 hasn't been built yet is the Israeli government has been careful to protect the Muslim Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque (which are on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem) ever since Israel took military control of the Temple Mount back in 1967. For the Israeli government knows if the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel were to destroy these two buildings (the 3rd-holiest sites in Islam) in order to clear the Temple Mount for a 3rd Jewish temple, this could mean the end of the current state of Israel. For enraged Muslim armies and militias could attack Israel en masse in an all-out jihad and defeat it completely.

    While the ultra-Orthodox Jews are no doubt aware of this danger, they believe the 3rd Jewish temple must nonetheless be built exactly where the prior Jewish temples stood: right over the Rock of Sacrifice (the Rock of the Dome of the Rock) on which Abraham almost sacrificed Isaac. And the ultra-Orthodox Jews could be brought to the point where they will even desire to see the end of the current, secular state of Israel, believing that only in its demise will God make it possible for them to establish a new, perfectly ultra-Orthodox, theocratic city-state of (what they could call) "the True Israel". They could establish this within the walled Old City of Jerusalem (which contains the Temple Mount), and build on the Temple Mount a 3rd Jewish temple before which they can restart the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices, and perfectly keep every jot and tittle of the Mosaic law, and banish every non-kosher person and thing from ever entering within Old Jerusalem's "Holy walls".

    (This could point to another reason the current, secular government of Israel doesn't want to let the ultra-Orthodox Jews build a 3rd Jewish temple: out of fear the secular authority of the Israeli government could subsequently get undermined. For once temple practices resumed and a priesthood came into power, a creep toward theocracy could ensue in Israel, where priests and rabbis would become powerful enough to replace the secular leaders. So the latter could want to place a hold on any drift in that direction by forbidding the building of a 3rd Jewish temple.)

    Something which could help to bring the ultra-Orthodox Jews to the point of desiring to see the end of the current, secular state of Israel would be them getting squeezed out of their settlements in Samaria and Judaea (also called the West Bank), and in eastern Jerusalem, as part of a peace deal handing these areas over to a Palestinian state. For the ultra-Orthodox Jews (rightly) see Samaria, Judaea and Jerusalem as the historically most important and holy parts of the land promised by God to Israel since the time of Abraham (Exodus 32:13). So when they start to get squeezed out of these areas, in a rage they could mass in their tens of thousands, armed with machine guns (which they're allowed to have for self-defense against the Palestinians). And led by three huge bulldozers they could march as a great army to the Old City of Jerusalem and go up on the Temple Mount and completely destroy the Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque.

    (A fear of the ultra-Orthodox Jews resorting to violence could be one of the reasons the current Israeli government refuses to hinder Jewish settlement activity in Samaria, Judaea and eastern Jerusalem. It could also be one of the reasons the U.S. government has been convinced by Israel to back off from requiring any such hindrance, even though the U.S. sometimes complains about the settlements. But if down the road, the current, geriatric, lifeless, Palestinian leadership of Fatah in the West Bank is replaced by a younger, very-energetic leadership, which is able to whip up pressure from the Middle East's Arab masses and governments (and even from non-Arab governments such as the French and the EU) for a Palestinian state; and if this pressure becomes so extreme it begins to threaten to overthrow the current U.S. hegemony over the Arab world, the U.S. could decide to force Israel to surrender the Jewish settlements to a Palestinian state. Also, there could be a change within Israel itself so that a majority of Israelis, including civilians, army leaders, judges, etc., decide it's time to remove the current, hard-line Israeli government and replace it, during an election, with a more liberal government willing to implement a two-state solution with the Palestinians.)

    Besides the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel getting squeezed out of their settlements at some point in our future, something else which could help to tip the scales toward them becoming violent would be the rising up of a miracle-working, ultra-Orthodox Jewish false "Messiah" (cf. Matthew 24:24), who could tell the ultra-Orthodox Jews something like:

    "God says that now is the time for us to take back religious control of the Holy Temple Mount, and rid it of all the detestable shrines which the Muslims have placed upon it. We are to sanctify it in the name of our God, so that we might rebuild His Holy Temple there. Listen, my brethren, fear not the Muslims' reaction when we retake religious control of the Holy Temple Mount. For God Himself is with us. He will protect us perfectly. Have I not shown you His mighty Power working through Me? Fear not any men, but fear only our Mighty God, who now commands us to rebuild His Holy Temple at the place which He determined from the time of our Father Abraham. Our God gave us back the Holy Temple Mount way back in 1967 C.E. But what have we done with it over all the time since then? Nothing! How can this be? How can we have allowed some merely-secular, so-called 'Israeli' government invented by sinful men to keep us, God's holy people, from even setting foot back on the Temple Mount, and to let it remain under the religious control of the vile Muslims? Let us all rise up now, my brethren! Let us all rise up, in the name of our God, and let us do mighty exploits to the Glory of His Holy Name!"

    With such rhetoric, accompanied by his working of amazing miracles (cf. Matthew 24:24), a false ultra-Orthodox Jewish "Messiah" in Israel could whip up the ultra-Orthodox Jews there into a religious frenzy, so that they will all with great zeal, and without any fear, march in their tens of thousands to the Temple Mount, and take total control of it, and then rejoice there and dance and sing holy hymns to God "for His great and mighty Victory".

    Something else which could help to tip the scales toward the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel becoming violent is the occurrence of a series of great earthquakes in Jerusalem which will severely damage the Dome of the Rock and Al Aqsa Mosque, to the point where they will stop being used. For the ultra-Orthodox Jews could see this as (in their words) "Clearly a portent from God that He will no longer allow the Muslims to trample His Holy Mountain. We must now reassert Jewish religious control over it and rebuild His Holy Temple there".

    Something else which could help tip the scales toward the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel becoming violent is their finding out the location of the Ark of the Covenant, which could be buried under an ancient ruined fort in the desert east of Jerusalem. The Copper Scroll could contain the clues as to where the Ark is buried in the fort (e.g. "under the third step"). The Ark could have been located there already with ground-penetrating radar by some non-religious treasure hunters, but the Israeli government could be holding up a digging permit to retrieve the Ark, because the government is afraid the ultra-Orthodox Jews could see a retrieval of the Ark as (in their words) "An unmistakable sign from God that now is the time for us to rebuild His Holy Temple". So the Israeli government has a motive to keep the location of the buried Ark top secret.

    Fearing that some ultra-Orthodox Jews could nonetheless somehow discover the top secret location of the buried Ark, and go there in the dead of night and dig it up without a permit from, or any notification to, the Israeli government, the government could have placed armed guards and surveillance cameras to watch over the buried Ark's location day and night.

    But if the buried Ark's location is found out by some ultra-Orthodox Jews, they could round up tens of thousands of their fellows, armed with machine guns, and they could suddenly swarm the location, overwhelm any armed guards there, and hold off any subsequently-arrived IDF troops and tanks long enough to get the Ark out of the ground. Once it's out and the IDF troops actually see it, it's unlikely they're going to try to stop the ultra-Orthodox Jews from parading it to the Temple Mount, they will be in such awe.

    Also, once the ultra-Orthodox Jews make it to the Temple Mount and begin completely destroying the Muslim Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque, it's unlikely the IDF troops are going to open fire, whether with lead bullets or rubber bullets, on their fellow Jews, slaughtering or injuring hundreds or thousands of them. Also, increasing numbers of IDF officers are very religious, so they could order their troops to stand down. And if some non-religious officers convince their troops to employ tear gas in an attempt to simply disperse the ultra-Orthodox Jews without harming them, this could be thwarted by the ultra-Orthodox Jews having brought along gas masks (which, ironically, could have been issued to them by the Israeli government itself, back when there was a fear Saddam Hussein would send Scud missiles into Israel with chemical weapons payloads).

    So the Israeli government could be unable to prevent the complete destruction of the Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque at the hands of the ultra-Orthodox Jews. And so the Israeli government could be unable to prevent the subsequent, retaliatory destruction of the state of Israel at the hands of enraged Muslim armies and militias.
     
  4. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

    +374
    Christian
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    Regarding post 97, do you mean agree that the gematrial number of the Antichrist's name must add up to 666?

    If so, hopefully every Reformer would agree, based on the Bible itself, that the "wisdom" given in Revelation 13:18 is that six hundred and sixty-six is the number of the Antichrist's name (Revelation 13:17c-18). And the "understanding" in Revelation 13:18 which is required to properly "count", to add up, the number of his name, is having an understanding of gematria, which scripture itself employs with the three Greek letters at the end of Revelation 13:18 (in the original Greek Textus Receptus), and which scriptural gematria, sadly, many Christians today are either unaware of, or, even if they know about it, they refuse to employ it, mistakenly thinking it's some sort of occult numerology/divination.

    *******

    Note that in 2 Thessalonians 2:4, like in Revelation 11:1-2, the original Greek word (naos: G3485) translated as "temple" is the same word used for an actual, physical temple in Matthew 23:16, Matthew 23:17, Matthew 23:21, Matthew 23:35, Matthew 27:5, Matthew 27:51, Mark 15:38, Luke 1:9, Luke 1:21, Luke 1:22, Luke 23:45 and John 2:20.
     
  5. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

    +374
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    That's right.

    And if the Antichrist will be "the king of the north" in Daniel 11:40, then who will be "the king of the south" in Daniel 11:40?

    By the time of Daniel 11:40-45, which will be right near the end of the future Antichrist's reign, the leader of the U.S. could be included as part of the "king of the south" which will rebel against him. For the U.S., as well as other countries such as Russia, China, India and Japan, may not ever come under the same level of control as the Middle East, North Africa and Europe will during the Antichrist's worldwide reign. But the U.S., as well as all other countries of the earth, will still come under the hegemony of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:7-8, Matthew 24:9).

    What could happen is during the Antichrist's worldwide reign, the U.S. will be under complete martial law, still controlled by U.S. soldiers, but under the economic thumb of the Antichrist. For during the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 the U.S. government could go bankrupt and the U.S. dollar could become next to worthless in world markets. So the U.S. will eventually become completely dependent on the Antichrist for its finances and trade.

    The way the U.S. could be considered a part of the "king of the south" in Daniel 11:40 is through the U.S.' current hegemony over Egypt, which is the king of the south in Daniel 11:5-17. At the start of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, Egypt could be defeated and occupied, along with Israel, by an Iraqi Baathist general (the Antichrist's precursor) leading a huge Iraqi Army (Daniel 11:15-17; in verse 17 the original Hebrew word translated as "daughter" is "bath"). After this happens, the U.S. could take up the mantle of Egypt and Israel and attempt a counter-attack to liberate them from Baathist control. But this counter-attack could fail so miserably the U.S. could forego any further attacks.

    It's at this point the Antichrist could arise on the world stage (Daniel 11:21) and "cut" a peace treaty with a future, ultra-Orthodox Jewish false "Messiah" (Daniel 9:26a,27a) ruling Jerusalem, after the Antichrist has defeated this Messiah and his followers (Daniel 11:22-23a). About 7 years later, sometime after the legal end of the Antichrist's literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-8), not only could the U.S. as the "king of the south" try to attack him (Daniel 11:40), but so could Russia, China, India and Japan. For "tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many" (Daniel 11:44).
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2017
  6. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

    +3,138
    Non-Denom
    Wherever else Paul uses "naos" in his epistles, it is a spiritual temple. In the context of his spiritual discourse to the Thessalonians, there is no valid reason to assume a physical temple.
     
  7. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

    +3,138
    Non-Denom
    VICARIVS FILII DEI = 666
    It is a Latin/Roman name with no gematrial dependencies.
     
  8. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

    +3,138
    Non-Denom
    Would you go to personally participate in the endeavor?

    Sozomen (ca. A.D.375-447)
    "Ecclesiastical History"
    Book V, Chapter XXII


    Though the emperor [Julian the Apostate] hated and opressed the Christians, he manifested benevolence and humanity towards the Jews. He wrote to the Jewish patriarchs and leaders, as well as to the people, requesting them to pray for him, and for the prosperity of the empire. In taking this step he was not actuated, I am convinced, by any respect for their religion; for he was aware that it is, so to speak, the mother of the Christian religion, and he knew that both religions rest upon the authority of the patriarchs and the prophets; but he thought to grieve the Christians by favoring the Jews, who are their most inveterate enemies. But perhaps he also calculated upon persuading the Jews to embrace paganism and sacrifices; for they were only acquainted with the mere letter of Scripture, and could not, like the Christians and a few of the wisest among the Hebrews, discern the hidden meaning.

    Events proved that this was his real motive; for he sent for some of the chiefs of the race and exhorted them to return to the observance of the laws of Moses and the customs of their fathers. On their replying that because the temple in Jerusalem was overturned, it was neither lawful nor ancestral to do this in another place than the metropolis out of which they had been cast, he gave them public money, commanded them to rebuild the temple, and to practice the cult similar to that of their ancestors, by sacrificing after the ancient way. The Jews entered upon the undertaking, without reflecting that, according to the prediction of the holy prophets, it could not be accomplished. They sought for the most skillful artisans, collected materials, cleared the ground, and entered so earnestly upon the task, that even the women carried heaps of earth, and brought their necklaces and other female ornaments towards defraying the expense. The emperor, the other pagans, and all the Jews, regarded every other undertaking as secondary in importance to this. Although the pagans were not well-disposed towards the Jews, yet they assisted them in this enterprise, because they reckoned upon its ultimate success, and hoped by this means to falsify the prophecies of Christ. Besides this motive, the Jews themselves were impelled by the consideration that the time had arrived for rebuilding their temple. When they had removed the ruins of the former building, they dug up the ground and cleared away its foundation; it is said that on the following day when they were about to lay the first foundation, a great earthquake occurred, and by the violent agitation of the earth, stones were thrown up from the depths, by which those of the Jews who were engaged in the work were wounded, as likewise those who were merely looking on. The houses and public porticos, near the site of the temple, in which they had diverted themselves, were suddenly thrown down; many were caught thereby, some perished immediately, others were found half dead and mutilated of hands or legs, others were injured in other parts of the body. When God caused the earthquake to cease, the workmen who survived again returned to their task, partly because such was the edict of the emperor, and partly because they were themselves interested in the undertaking. Men often, in endeavoring to gratify their own passions, seek what is injurious to them, reject what would be truly advantageous, and are deluded-by the idea that nothing is really useful except what is agreeable to them. When once led astray by this error, they are no longer able to act in a manner conducive to their own interests, or to take warning by the calamities which are visited upon them.

    The Jews, I believe, were just in this state; for, instead of regarding this unexpected earthquake as a manifest indication that God was opposed to the re-erection of their temple, they proceeded to recommence the work. But all parties relate, that they had scarcely returned to the undertaking, when fire burst suddenly from the foundations of the temple, and consumed several of the workmen.

    This fact is fearlessly stated, and believed by all; the only discrepancy in the narrative is that some maintain that flame burst from the interior of the temple, as the workmen were striving to force an entrance, while others say that the fire proceeded directly from the earth. In whichever way the phenomenon might have occurred, it is equally wonderful. A more tangible and still more extraordinary prodigy ensued; suddenly the sign of the cross appeared spontaneously on the garments of the persons engaged in the undertaking. These crosses were disposed like stars, and appeared the work of art. Many were hence led to confess that Christ is God, and that the rebuilding of the temple was not pleasing to Him; others presented themselves in the church, were initiated, and besought Christ, with hymns and supplications, to pardon their transgression. If any one does not feel disposed to believe my narrative, let him go and be convinced by those who heard the facts I have related from the eyewitnesses of them, for they are still alive. Let him inquire, also, of the Jews and pagans who left the work in an incomplete state, or who, to speak more accurately, were able to commence it.
     
  9. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

    +3,138
    Non-Denom
    To answer that first requires a definition of "Israel". What are the distinguishing characteristics which qualify an individual for inclusion in "Israel"?
     
  10. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    No, not yet.

    What it will be is when the person sits in the temple, claims to be God.... God has the person killed for the act (in Ezekiel 28:1-10), then in disdain for the person brings him back to life (Isaiah 14:19-20).

    Coming back to life - that is the strong delusion. People who reject Jesus, will believe the persons' initial claim of having achieved God-hood, is true because it will appear that he has overcome death.
     
  11. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Private
    The Jews consider anyone who's mother is a Jew - as being a Jew.
     
  12. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

    +3,138
    Non-Denom
    Thus, every female offspring of a Jewish mother, and all female offspring thereafter through all successive generations, are deemed to be Jewish.
     
  13. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

    +3,138
    Non-Denom
    Note that there is no reference anywhere in the whole of Scripture to a singularized capital A "Antichrist". Daniel 7 is describing the little horn.

    Daniel 7:25 does not specify what times or laws would be changed, nor the legitimacy or illegitimacy of such changes. There is nothing precluding the sabbath from qualifying as such a change, but nothing necessitating its inclusion either.

    However, the papacy itself confirmed its sabbath change:

    Catholic Dr. Johann Eck, Luther’s principal adversary, said this in 1533:

    There is no mention of the cessation of the Sabbath and the institution of Sunday in the gospels or in Paul's writings, or in all the Bible; therefore, this has taken place by the apostolic Church instituting it without scripture.i
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2017
  14. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Every offspring of a Jewish mother, irrespective if male or female is a Jew. But if the male has children by a non-Jew, the child is not a Jew. The female on the other hand, if she has children by a non-Jew, the child is a Jew.

    Goes back to Nehemiah and Ezra's day, when the Jewish caretakers left in Jerusalem, while the Babylonian captivity was taking place, had married foreign (non-Jew) woman and had children by them. Which marrying foreign woman was the same Solomon did, which those women brought all their foreign gods with them - that directly lead to the Babylonian captivity.

    So Nehemiah and Ezra shamed the caretakers into sending their foreign wives and children by them away.
     
  15. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

    +3,138
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    Right. So the result is a significantly higher proportion of Jewish females than males, because of the unconditional matrilineal Jewish inheritance.

    How does a mother who claims Jewishness prove her claim?
     
  16. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Last edited: Aug 27, 2017
  17. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

    +3,138
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    Unknown potentially tens or hundreds of millions could qualify genetically:
    DNA Tests Could Fulfill God’s Promise to Abraham by Revealing Millions of Jews. But How Jewish is Jewish Enough?

    But genetics are irrelevant from God's perspective: Romans 2:28-29, Galatians 3:28-29.
     
  18. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

    +374
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    Note that 2 Thessalonians 2:4 can be the only instance in Paul's epistles where "naos" refers to an actual, physical temple. For your argument is like the argument of full preterism which claims the "elements" in 2 Peter 3:10,12 can't be physical because all the other verses in the Bible where the original Greek word "stoicheion" (G4747) is used, refer to non-physical elements. The truth is the "elements" in 2 Peter 3:10,12 can be the only place in the Bible where "stoicheion" is used to refer to physical elements, just as, for example, Revelation 6:6 can be (and in fact is) the only place in the Bible where the Greek word "choinix" (G5518) is used at all.

    Similarly, 2 Thessalonians 2:4 can be the only instance in Paul's epistles where "naos" refers to an actual, physical temple.

    But why restrict Paul's use of "naos" to only his epistles? For he used "naos" in his spiritual discourse in Acts 17:24 to refer to actual, physical temples.
     
  19. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

    +374
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    "Vicarius Filii Dei", a title of the pope, only equals 666 when by mistake people use the Roman-numeral method of counting the number of a name:

    V = 5
    I = 1
    C = 100
    A
    R
    I = 1
    U = 5 (because under this method U is the same as V)
    S

    F
    I = 1
    L = 50
    I = 1
    I = 1

    D = 500
    E
    I = 1

    Total = 666

    This doesn't mean the pope is the Antichrist. It just means the Roman-numeral method gives false positives. For example:

    E
    L = 50
    L = 50
    E
    N

    G
    O
    U = 5
    L = 50
    D = 500

    W = 10 (because W = double U = UU = VV)
    H
    I = 1
    T
    E

    Total = 666

    This doesn't mean the most important early leader of the SDA view is the Antichrist. It just means the SDA view (or any other view) shouldn't employ the Roman-numeral method of counting the number of a name, instead of the Bible's own method, which is gematria.
     
  20. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

    +374
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    All genetic Jews are part of genetic Israel (Romans 9:3-5), the nation-state of which was reestablished in 1948 AD.

    Matthew 24:34 could mean the temporal generation which would see the 1948 AD reestablishment of Israel, which could be symbolized by the rebudding of the fig tree (Matthew 24:32-34; cf. Matthew 21:19,43, Hosea 9:10, Joel 1:6-7, Luke 13:6-9), won't pass, that is, won't die off completely, until the future Tribulation and Second Coming of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 19 are fulfilled. A temporal generation may not pass until 70 or 80 years (Psalms 90:10), or 120 years (Genesis 6:3).

    This doesn't require Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming will occur right before, like one year before, that generation will pass: that is, 69, or 79, or 119 years after 1948: in 2017, 2027, or 2067. And if the future Tribulation which will immediately precede the Second Coming and rapture (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6) will last 7 years (Daniel 9:27), the Tribulation's first year didn't have to be in 2011, and won't have to be in 2021 or 2061, but could be in a future year (e.g. 2020) earlier than 2021.

    Matthew 24:34 could also include the meaning that the figurative, all-times generation of the elect (Matthew 24:22, Luke 16:8b; 1 Peter 2:9, Colossians 3:12; 1 Thessalonians 1:4) won't pass away from the earth during the future Tribulation of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 18, but that some of the elect will survive (Matthew 24:22) until Jesus Christ's Second Coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53), immediately after the Tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).
     
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