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  1. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    Note the idea of the individual-man Antichrist doesn't have to be explicitly referred to in scripture as "the Antichrist" for it to be true and supported by scripture, just as, for example, the idea of the Trinity doesn't have to be explicitly referred to in scripture as "the Trinity" for it to be true and supported by scripture (e.g. Matthew 28:19, John 1:1,14, Acts 5:3-4). The man commonly called the Antichrist will be the fulfillment of the individual "man of sin" (2 Thessalonians 2:3) who will sit (at least one time) in a future, 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem and proclaim himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). He will fulfill the individual "man" aspect of the "beast" who will come (Revelation 13:18) and bring the world into the conscious and open worship of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) and himself (Revelation 13:4,8, Revelation 12:9). He will rule the earth for 3.5 literal years (Revelation 13:5-10, Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7) and will have a miracle-working False Prophet (Revelation 19:20, Revelation 16:13) who by amazing, Satanic miracles (2 Thessalonians 2:9b), such as calling fire down from heaven (Revelation 13:13), will deceive the world into worshipping a speaking (possibly an android) image of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:15), and receiving a mark of the Antichrist's name or gematrial name-number (666) on their right hand or forehead (Revelation 13:16-18). The Antichrist and his False Prophet will ultimately be cast into the lake of fire at Jesus Christ's Second Coming (Revelation 19:20), while at that time Satan will be bound in the bottomless pit for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:1-3). None of these things has happened yet.
     
  2. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    "Trinity" does not appear in Scripture; it is a recognizable and acceptable manmade description of a spiritual reality. "Antichrist" is an unscriptural attempt to redefine the pluralized scriptural terms "antichrist(s)" into an ideologized singularity. Its futurization and singularization was a product of the apostasy which was properly and accurately recognized as the dominant expression of an antichrist in its day, in historical fulfillment of the associated prophecies.

    "Futurism fantasizes; history realizes."
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2017
  3. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    For those with a genetic fixation, here is what to expect:
    Abraham lineage
    Quote: "And indeed, the number of people in the world today with the “Abrahamic Genetic Signature” is too large to count precisely. A reasonable estimate is in the hundreds of millions."

    Where would you find room to put 'em all?

    But of course, genetics are utterly unmeritorious and irrelevant in God's determination of His Chosen Ones. Romans 2:28-29, Galatians 3:28-29. Israel's reestablishment is solely the result of political and military statecraft fomented by the Rothschilds and other godless agents. Matthew 24 was for the most part applicable to the generation of that day. Had the disciples and Judean believers not heeded and acted upon Christ's warning to flee, they would have been slaughtered. The tribulation which ensued is unparalleled before or since in the annals of history.

    "Futurism fantasizes; history realizes."
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2017
  4. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    VICARIVS FILII DEI is Latin/Roman and requires no gematrial knowledge to derive 666.
    ELLEN GOULD WHITE is not Latin/Roman and is thus an inapplicable example.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2017
  5. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Paul's epistles to the congregations were focused on spiritual instruction and enlightenment, and his metaphors were frequently spiritual. 2 Thess. 2:3 uses the metaphor of apostasy or falling away to describe spiritual departure from the true faith. The man of sin arrogates spiritual authority. "Man of sin" and "son of perdition" are metaphors denoting the spiritual apostasy of the associated personages. The temple can certainly then also be recognized as spiritual, consistent with its use elsewhere in Paul's epistles.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2017
  6. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    Note that the existence of many antichrists (1 John 2:18) doesn't contradict there will be an individual man (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4,9, Revelation 13:4-18) who's commonly called the Antichrist, just as on the side of good, the existence of many sons of God (John 1:12) doesn't contradict there's an individual man, Jesus Christ of Nazareth, who's the Son of God (John 20:31).
     
  7. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    Note that genetic Israelites (Romans 9:3-5) must be descended from Abraham's grandson Jacob, whom God renamed as "Israel" (Genesis 32:28).

    Not utterly irrelevant, insofar as Romans 11:28b means some elect people are beloved in part because of their genetic descent.

    *******

    Note that Revelation 13:18 was written in Greek, not Latin/Roman.

    Also, Irenaeus (born c. 140 AD) said "this number [666] being found in all the most approved and ancient copies [of Revelation], and those men who saw John face to face bearing their testimony; while reason also leads us to conclude that the number of the name of the beast, according to the Greek mode of calculation by the [value of] the letters contained in it, will amount to six hundred and sixty and six" (Against Heresies 5:30:1). This mode of calculation, or method of gematria, is the same in the Greek alphabet, the Hebrew alphabet, the English alphabet, and any other alphabet. And it is quite simple: the first nine letters in the alphabet are 1 through 9, the next nine letters are 10 through 90 (counting by tens), and the rest of the letters are 100, 200, 300, etc., to the end of the alphabet.
     
  8. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    Are you thinking of Matthew 24:34?

    If so, note that Matthew 24:34 refers to the fulfillment of "all these things", all the events of the future Tribulation, and Jesus Christ's Second Coming and the gathering together (rapture) of the Church "immediately after" the Tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31; cf. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17, Revelation 19:2 to 20:6), which events Jesus had just finished describing in Matthew 24:2-31, and which He would later show in great detail in Revelation chapters 6 to 19. Matthew 24:34 didn't mean the Tribulation, Second Coming and rapture would be fulfilled during the temporal generation alive at the time of Jesus' first coming in the 1st century AD, for none of those things was fulfilled during that temporal generation.

    Note the "nor ever shall be" part of Matthew 24:21. World War II was worse than 70 AD, even just for the Jews in the Holocaust. And not even World War II fulfilled the detailed Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, which will occur in our future.
     
  9. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    Regarding "Judaea" (Matthew 24:16), note this doesn't have to mean 1st century AD Judaea. For there are many churches in Judaea (southern Israel) still today. They contain mostly Gentile Christians, not just Jewish Christians. The Church began and has always been in Judaea: "Then had the churches rest throughout all Judaea" (Acts 9:31); "the churches of Judaea" (Galatians 1:22); "the churches... in Judaea" (1 Thessalonians 2:14). Matthew 24:16 refers to those in the Church, whether Gentiles or Jews, who will be living in Judaea at the future point in time when the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) is set up in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem (Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31).

    The future Antichrist's persecution of the Church could begin in Jerusalem and Judaea right after the abomination of desolation is set up and the Antichrist sits in the temple (at least one time) and proclaims himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). So to avoid this persecution (cf. Matthew 10:23a), those in the Church living in Judaea should flee immediately after they see the abomination of desolation set up (Matthew 24:15-16), which event could occur at the midpoint of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, and which event could mark the start of the Antichrist's literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:4-18). Eventually, the Antichrist's persecution of the Church (not in hiding) will reach every nation (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13). So the basic principle of Matthew 24:16, of fleeing (the Antichrist's persecution), would apply to Christians around the world.

    Just as the woman in Revelation 12:6 represents different people in the Church around the world, so the protected wilderness place she flees to represents different, protected wilderness places around the world. When those in the Church living in Judaea see the abomination of desolation set up (Matthew 24:15), they should flee to places in the wilderness east of Judaea, the mountains (Matthew 24:16) of Jordan. And those in the Church who will be living in places other than Judaea should flee to other wilderness places, mountainous places (Ezekiel 7:16), in the regions of the world where they live.

    And they should have prepared beforehand hideouts in these wilderness/mountain places, hideouts already fully stocked with all the emergency supplies of canned food, bottled water, warm clothing and bedding, etc., that they and their families and fellow Christians will need to survive (cf. 1 Timothy 5:8, Matthew 24:45-46, cf. Genesis 41:48,36, Genesis 45:7) until Jesus Christ returns, possibly on the 1,335th day after the abomination of desolation is set up (Daniel 12:11-12, Revelation 16:15). For they shouldn't carry any supplies with them when they flee (Matthew 24:17-18). They should flee as unhindered and quickly as possible, knowing that when the abomination of desolation is set up, that could signal the beginning of the future Antichrist's literal 3.5-year Luciferian/Satanic worldwide reign of terror (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9), when he will be given power to make war against all Biblical Christians he can get his hands on, and to physically overcome them and kill them (by beheading) in every nation (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).
     
  10. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The Judean believers' flight was a distinct fulfillment. Other fulfillments of that generation were:

    DECEIVERS

    Matthew: "And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you, For many shall come in my name saying, I am Christ, and shall deceive many" (24:4,5).

    Mark: "And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you; For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ, and shall deceive many" (13:5,6).

    Luke: "And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived; for many shall come in my name saying, I am Christ, and the time draweth near; go ye not therefore after them" (21:8).

    Did such deceivers or false Christs arise and deceive many in those years before the destruction of Jerusalem? Yes.

    According to Josephus, the noted Jewish historian, twelve years after our Saviour's death, a certain impostor named Theudas persuaded a great multitude to follow him to the river Jordan which he claimed would divide for their passage. At the time of Felix (who is mentioned in the book of Acts), the country of the Jews was filled with impostors who Felix had put to death EVERY DAY—a statement which indicates that there were "many" of such in those days.

    An Egyptian who "pretended to be a prophet" gathered 30,000 men, claiming that he would show "how, at his command, the walls of Jerusalem would fall down."

    Another deceiver was Simon, a sorcerer, who led people to believe he was the great power of God (See Acts 8). According to Irenaeus, Simon claimed to be the Son of God and creator of angels. Jerome says that he claimed to be the Word of God, the Almighty. Justin relates that he went to Rome and was acclaimed as a god by his magical powers.

    Origen mentions a certain wonder-worker, Dositheus, who claimed he was the Christ foretold by Moses. Another deceiver in those days was Barchochebas who, according to Jerome, claimed to vomit flames. Bar-jesus is mentioned in Acts 13:6 as a sorcerer and false prophet. These are examples of the deceivers of whom history says there were "a great number," and of whom Jesus had prophesied that there would be "many."

    WARS AND RUMORS OF WARS

    Matthew: "And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars. See that ye be not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom" (24:6,7).

    Mark: "And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled; for such things must needs be, but the end is not yet, For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom" (13:7, 8).

    Luke: "But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified; for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by [immediately]. Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom (21:9,10).

    We are told that when Jesus gave this prophecy, the Roman Empire was experiencing a general peace within its borders. Jesus explained to his disciples that they would be hearing of wars, rumors of wars, and commotions. And did they? Yes. Within a short time the Empire was filled with strife, insurrection, and wars.

    Before the fall of Jerusalem, four Emperors came to violent deaths within the space of 18 months. According to the historian Suetonius (who lived during the latter part of the first century and the beginning of the second), Nero "drove a dagger into his throat.'' Galba was run down by horsemen. A soldier cut off his head and "thrusting his thumb into the mouth," carried the horrid trophy about. Otho "stabbed himself" in the breast. Vitellius was killed by slow torture and then "dragged by a hook into the Tiber." We can understand that such fate falling on the Emperors would naturally spread distress and insecurity through the Empire.

    In the Annals of Tacitus, a Roman who wrote a history which covers the period prior to 70 A. D., we find such expressions as these: "Disturbances in Germany," "commotions in Africa," "commotions in Thrace," "insurrections in Gaul," "intrigues among the Parthians," "the war in Britain," "war in Armenia."

    Among the Jews, the times became turbulent. In Seleucia, 50,000 Jews were killed. There was an uprising against them in Alexandria. In a battle between the Jews and Syrians in Caesarea, 20,000 were killed. During these times, Caligula ordered his statue placed in the temple at Jerusalem. The Jews refused to do this and lived in constant fear that the Emperor's armies would be sent into Palestine. This fear became so real that some of them did not even bother to till their fields.

    But though there would be wars, rumours of wars, and commotions, Jesus told his disciples: "See that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the END is not yet." The word "end" that is used here is not the same Greek word as in the expression "end of the world." (See footnote). As Barnes says, the end here referred to is "the end of the Jewish economy; the destruction of Jerusalem."

    Wars, rumors of wars, and commotions were of a general nature. These things were not signs of the end; to the contrary, they were given to show that the end was NOT yet. None of these things would be the sign which would cause the disciples to flee into the mountains.

    FAMINES, PESTILENCES, EARTHQUAKES

    Matthew. "And there shall be famines and pestilences, and earthquakes in divers places, all these are the beginning of sorrows (24:7,8).

    Mark: "And there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles. These are the beginning of sorrows" (13:8).

    Luke: "And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines and pestilences, and fearful sights" (21:11).

    The Bible records that there was famine "throughout all the world...in the days of Claudius Caesar (Acts 11:28). Judea was especially hard hit by famine. "The disciples, every man according to his ability, determined to send relief unto the brethren which dwelt in Judaea" (verse 29). Paul's instructions concerning this "collection [of fruit] for the saints" is recorded in First Corinthians 16:1-5; Rom. 15:25-28.

    Historians such as Suetonius and others mention famine during those years. Tacitus speaks of a "failure in the crops, and a famine consequent thereupon." Eusebius also mentions famines during this time in Rome, Judea, and Greece. Yes, there were famines in those years before the fall of Jerusalem.

    Along with famines, Jesus mentioned pestilence; that is, plagues, the spread of disease, epidemics. Famine and pestilence, of course, go hand in hand. When people do not have proper food or insufficient food, pestilence results. Suetonius wrote of "pestilence" at Rome in the days of Nero which was so severe that "within the space of one autumn there died no less than 30,000 persons." Josephus records that pestilences raged in Babylonia in A. D. 40. Tacitus tells of pestilences in Italy in A. D. 65. Yes, there were pestilences in those years before the destruction of Jerusalem.

    During this period, Jesus said there would also be earthquakes in many places. Tacitus mentions earthquakes at Rome. He wrote that "Frequent earthquakes occurred, by which many houses were thrown down" and that "twelve populous cities of Asia fell in ruins from an earthquake."

    Seneca, writing in the year 58 A. D., said: "How often have cities of Asia and Achaea fallen with one fatal shock! how many cities have been swallowed up in Syria! how many in Macedonia! how often has Cyprus been wasted by this calamity ! how often has Paphos become a ruin! News has often been brought us of the demolition of whole cities at once." He mentions the earthquake at Campania during the reign of Nero. In 60 A.D., Hierapous, Colosse, and Laodicea were overthrown—Laodicea being so self-sufficient that it recovered without the Imperial aid furnished other cities. In 63 A.D,, the city of Pompeii was greatly damaged by earthquake. There were earthquakes in Crete, Apamea, Smyrna, Miletus, Chios, Samos, and Judea. Earthquakes in divers places.

    PERSECUTION AGAINST THE DISCIPLES

    Matthew: "Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.., And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold" (24:9-12).

    Mark: "They shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten; and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony.., whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak but the Holy Ghost... And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake" (13:9-13).

    Luke: "They shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake. And it shall turn to you for a testimony...I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist...and some of you shall they cause to be put to death. And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake" (21:12-17).

    The book of Acts gives a complete account of how the disciples were persecuted in the very ways Jesus had predicted. Let us take, for example, Acts 4: "And they laid hands on them [Peter and John], and put them in prison" (verse 3). They were brought before "rulers" (verses 5-7). And it turned into an opportunity to testify. Peter explained that "there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved" (verse 12). They were given a mouth of wisdom which their adversaries could not gainsay, for the men of the council "marveled" (verse 13). They were then commanded "not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus" (verse 18). As Jesus had said, they were hated for his name's sake.

    The same things are seen in Acts 5. Certain authorities "laid their hands on the apostles, and put them in the common prison" (verse 18). Later they were brought "before the council" (verse 27) and told to answer for continuing to teach in the name of Jesus (verse 28). Again they had opportunity to testify (verses 29-32). They were "beaten" (verse 40). As they departed from the "council", they rejoiced "that they were counted worthy to suffer for his name"(verse 41).

    Or take Acts 6. There arose certain ones of the "synagogue" that disputed with Steven. "And they were not able to resist the wisdom and the spirit by which he spoke" (verses 9,10). Persecution resulted and he was brought into the "council " and questioned (verse 12). Again there was the opportunity to testify, the words of that testimony being given in Acts 7. Stephen was killed for his stand (verses 54-60). Jesus had said that some of them would be killed.

    Notice Acts 8. "There was a great persecution against the church." Christians were put in "prison", but the result was that the word was preached (verses 1-4).

    In Acts 16, Paul and Silas were beaten and cast into "prison." But it turned into an opportunity to testify and the Philippian jailor and his family were converted as a result (verses 22-34). In Acts 21, persecution resulted in Paul being beaten, brought before rulers, before whom he testified (Acts 22). In Acts 22:19 we read that Christians were "imprisoned and beat in every Synagogue."

    In Acts 24, Paul was brought before Felix, the governor, and testified. He was given a mouth of wisdom which his adversaries could not gainsay—though they obtained an orator to speak against him. Paul's words even made Felix to "tremble." In Acts 25 and 26, Paul was brought before king Agrippa, the chief captains, and the principal men of the city. He was given a mouth of wisdom, for Agrippa said to Paul, "Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian" (verse 28).

    Jesus said the disciples would be afflicted, beaten, imprisoned; they would be hated for his name's sake and some would be killed; they would be brought before councils, rulers, and kings, for a testimony; they would be given a mouth of wisdom which their adversaries could not gainsay. Surely these things came to pass in those years—unmistakably fulfilled in every detail.

    "And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many ...but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved" (Mt. 24:11,13). Peter, who was present when Jesus gave this prophecy (Mk. 13:3), later wrote about "false prophets" that had risen and of "many" that followed their pernicious ways (2 Peter 2). John, who also heard Jesus give this prophecy, recorded the fulfillment: "Many false prophets are gone out into the world" (l John 4:1). "Many deceivers are entered into the world" (2 John 7).

    Paul also spoke of "false apostles, deceitful workers" (2 Cor. 11:13). He mentioned Hymenaeus and Philetus who taught false doctrines and overthrew the faith of some (2 Tim. 2:17, 18). By the time of his epistle to Titus, there were "many...deceivers ...who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not" (Titus 1:10, 11).

    The waters of truth were muddied by betrayals, false prophets, iniquity, and the love of many waxing cold. "But he that shall endure [such things] until the end, the same shall be saved" (Mt. 24:13)—both now and hereafter. We understand "end" here in a general sense, for unlike the use of this word in verses 6 and 14, this reference does not have the definite article in the Greek text.

    GOSPEL TO BE PREACHED TO THE NATIONS

    "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then [not until then] shall the end come" (Mt. 24:14). Unless we take this verse clear out of its setting, "the end" in view here is the end or destruction which was to come upon Jerusalem and the temple. (See footnote.) This was the question that Jesus was answering in the verses before, and the verses that follow are still speaking about Jerusalem and Judea. Jerusalem would be destroyed, but "first" the gospel would be preached unto all nations (Mk. 13:10).

    It was a tremendous prophecy. Picture the scene. Here on the mount of Olives, Jesus was speaking these words to seemingly insignificant men. Who would have supposed that the names of these humble men would become known around the world and that even in our day—almost 2,000 years later—the seeds of truth that they planted would still be producing fruit? Who would have supposed that this unpopular gospel that Christ committed to these men would ever spread beyond that immediate area? Such a vast preaching program unto all nations seemed almost impossible of fulfillment. But it was fulfilled, and in a very real sense the gospel did go to all nations before the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A. D..

    On the day of Pentecost when the disciples were filled with the Holy Spirit, there were present in Jerusalem "devout men, out of every nation under heaven" (Acts 2:5). They heard the gospel preached by Peter and 3,000 were converted that day. Many of these, no doubt, returned to their various countries and preached the gospel.

    Later when persecution came against the church, the believers at Jerusalem were scattered and "went every where preaching the word", throughout the regions of Judea and Samaria (Acts 8:1,4). Philip took the message to the city of Samaria with great results (verses 5-8). Later he was directed to a high ranking government official from Ethiopia who was gloriously converted (verses 26-40). It is believed that this man took the message to the continent of Africa and many were converted because of his influential testimony.

    Peter took the message to the Gentiles at the house of Cornelius, an event that was a turning point in the missionary activities of the church (Acts 10, 11). The book of Acts gives a sketch of the mighty missionary work that advanced rapidly.

    The message spread to Rome. By the time of Nero, the Christians had grown so numerous that they aroused the jealousy of the government. The story of the great fire in Rome in 64 A. D. —for which the Christians were falsely blamed—is well known. In writing to the Christians at Rome, Paul opens his epistle by saying, "Your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world" (Rom. 1:8), and his closing words talk about the gospel as having been "made known to all nations for the obedience of faith" (16:26).

    Concerning even far away England, Newton says: "There is absolute certainty that Christianity was planted in this country in the days of the apostles, before the destruction of Jerusalem." Eusebius and also Theodoret inform us that the apostles preached the gospel in all the world and some of them "passed beyond the ocean to the Britannic isles."

    By the time Paul wrote his letter to the Colossians, he could say: 'The gospel...is come unto you, as it is in all the world" (Col. 1:6). Likewise, in verse 23, he mentions '"the gospel which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven."

    By 70 A. D., the gospel had gone forth to the world for a witness. No longer was God's message to man confined to one nation or race.


    (FOOTNOTE When the disciples spoke of "the END of the world" (Mt.24:3), the word is SUNTELEIA (number 4930 in Strong's Concordance). But in verses 6 and 14, the word translated "end" is a different word altogether, TELOS (number 5056 in Strong's Concordance). Not realizing this, some read about "the end of the world in verse 3, and think that the word "end" in verses 6 and 14 refers to the end of the world also. But such is not the case. In verses 6 and 14 the primary end in view is the destruction of Jerusalem. Later in the passage, when Jesus answered the question about his coming and the end of the world, he used the term "that day"—when "heaven and earth shall pass away"—the end of the age.



    Source: "Great Prophecies of the Bible" by Ralph Woodrow
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2017
  11. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    Note that just as 2 Thessalonians 2:1 refers to the future, physical, Second Coming of Jesus Christ and the gathering together (rapture) of the Church to Him (Matthew 24:30-31, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17), so 2 Thessalonians 2:4 refers to the Antichrist sitting in a future, physical temple building in Jerusalem (Revelation 11:1-2, Matthew 24:15).

    *******

    Matthew 24:3 . . . what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

    Also, here the original Greek word (G0165) translated as "world" can be translated as "age" (Ephesians 2:7, Colossians 1:26).

    It's sometimes claimed the end of the age refers to the end of the Old Covenant age in 70 AD. But the time of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law ended not at the destruction of the 2nd Jewish temple in Jerusalem in 70 AD, but decades earlier, at the moment Jesus Christ died on the Cross (Matthew 27:50-51a) and abolished the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17, Romans 7:6; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18, Hebrews 7:18-19), which was the same moment He brought the New Covenant into effect (Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 9:15-17, Hebrews 10:19-20, Matthew 27:51a). So there was no transition period, no overlap at all (Hebrews 10:9b, Hebrews 7:12), between the time of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law and the time of the New Covenant.

    Also, while the apostles of the Church asked Jesus Christ about the end of the age (Matthew 24:3), He didn't tell them the end of the age would occur at the destruction of the 2nd Jewish temple, or (as is sometimes claimed) before the future Tribulation of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 18, or even at the end of the Tribulation, that is, at Jesus' post-tribulation, Second Coming (Matthew 24:29-31), or when the end of the age would occur, just as Jesus didn't tell His apostles other things during His ministry (John 16:12). It wouldn't be until later that Jesus would show the apostle John, through the vision in the book of Revelation (given about 95 AD: Irenaeus, Against Heresies 5:30:3c), that the end of the age, when all non-Christians will be cast into the lake of fire and brimstone (Matthew 13:40, Matthew 25:41, Revelation 20:15), won't occur until over 1,000 years after Jesus' future, Second Coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:15).

    Matthew 24:6,14 refer to the end of the future Tribulation of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 18.

    Regarding "when 'heaven and earth shall pass away'", Matthew 24:35 refers to the eternal nature of Jesus Christ's Word in the Holy Bible (cf. 1 Peter 1:24-25), not to the timing of the subsequent verses. For Matthew 24:36 refers to the timing of Jesus' future, Second Coming in Matthew 24:37-51, as in Matthew 24:30, Matthew 24:27 and Matthew 24:3, and as in Matthew 25:10, Matthew 25:13, Matthew 25:19 and Matthew 25:31. This is the same future, Second Coming as shown in Revelation 19:7 to 20:3, which will occur over 1,000 years before heaven and earth will pass away and be replaced by a New Heaven (a new 1st heaven, sky/atmosphere for the earth) and a New Earth (a new surface for the earth) in Revelation 21:1-5. For between the time of the Second Coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:3) and the New Heaven and New Earth will occur the future Millennium (Revelation 20:4-6), then the Gog/Magog rebellion after the Millennium (Revelation 20:7-10, Ezekiel chapters 38-39), and then at least 7 years after the defeat of the Gog/Magog rebellion (Ezekiel 39:9b).
     
  12. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    Note the Judean believers' flight in Matthew 24:16 will be at the time of the abomination of desolation in Matthew 24:15:

    Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand),
    16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains . . .

    Just as Matthew 24:2 wasn't fulfilled in 70 AD (because the Wailing Wall of the 2nd Jewish temple complex still stands), so Matthew 24:15 wasn't fulfilled in 70 AD.

    In Matthew 24:15 Jesus Christ is referring to Daniel 11:31.

    Regarding the "abomination of desolation", Daniel 11:31 was typically fulfilled by the abomination of desolation in 1 Maccabees 1:54 which occurred in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the 2nd Jewish temple in Jerusalem in the time of Antiochus IV. But per Jesus Christ's statement in Matthew 24:15 the Church will see the abomination of desolation in Daniel 11:31 fulfilled (antitypically) in the future when the Church will see the abomination of desolation stand in the holy place (of a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem). This future abomination of desolation could be a standing, android image of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:15) which his followers ("they") will put in the holy place of the temple (Daniel 11:31) to be worshipped (Revelation 13:15) after they've stopped the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices which the ultra-Orthodox Jews will have restarted in front of the temple (Daniel 11:31). This image will pollute the holy place of the temple (Daniel 11:31).

    The Antichrist will then fulfill Daniel 11:36 and 2 Thessalonians 2:4 by sitting himself (at least one time) in the temple and proclaiming himself God. By the power of Satan (the dragon, Revelation 12:9), the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") will then rule and be worshipped by all the nations of the earth for 3.5 literal years (Revelation 13:4-18), and will physically overcome Biblical Christians (not in hiding) in every nation (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

    Also, from the day on which (antitypically) "the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be 1,290 days. Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the 1,335 days" (Daniel 12:11-12, Revelation 16:15). Also, because the Antichrist will fulfill Daniel 11:31 antitypically (Matthew 24:15) and will fulfill Daniel 11:36 for the first and only time (2 Thessalonians 2:4), he will also fulfill all of Daniel 11:21-45 (the first part antitypically and the rest for the first and only time) when he arises on the world stage. For that passage refers to the career of the same man. And since the Antichrist will fulfill all of Daniel 11:21-45 when he arises on the world stage, then just preceding his arising on the world stage, Daniel 11:13-19 could be fulfilled antitypically by a future, Iraqi Baathist General (the Antichrist's precursor) who will defeat and occupy Israel and Egypt with a huge Iraqi Army (Daniel 11:15-17; in verse 17 the original Hebrew word translated as "daughter" is "bath").
     
  13. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    Note that just as the highly detailed Tribulation events of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 have never been fulfilled, so the Tribulation events of Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 have never been fulfilled. For example, Luke 21:24 refers to the same, future treading down of Jerusalem by the Gentiles as Revelation 11:2b, during the future Antichrist's literal 42-month worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-18), the details of which time period are shown from 4 different angles in Revelation chapters 11 to 14 (Revelation 11:2b-3, Revelation 12:6,14, Revelation 13:5,7, Revelation 14:9-13). The myriad details of these chapters have never been fulfilled. Similarly, Jesus Christ's Second Coming and the Church's gathering together (rapture) in Matthew 24:30-31 (2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17) have never been fulfilled, but must occur "immediately after" the future Tribulation of Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21 and Revelation chapters 6 to 18 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:2 to 20:6).

    --

    Why does partial preterism believe in a future Second Coming, but not a future Tribulation, when:

    1. The Second Coming and rapture (the gathering together/catching up together of the Church: 2 Thessalonians 2:1; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17) must occur "immediately after" the Tribulation of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 18 (Matthew 24:29-31, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6);

    2. The Second Coming and rapture can't occur until sometime after the man of sin (commonly called the Antichrist, also called the beast) sits in a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem during the Tribulation and declares himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:1-4, Daniel 11:31,36, Matthew 24:15-31, Revelation 11:1-2, Revelation 13:4-18); and

    3. At Jesus' Second Coming to rapture and marry the Church, He will destroy the Antichrist (2 Thessalonians 2:1,8, Revelation 19:7,20)?

    Partial preterism might answer: "It's obvious the Second Coming hasn't happened yet". And that's right. But full preterism nonetheless still mistakenly claims the Second Coming, resurrection and rapture described in 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 (and in 2 Thessalonians 2:1, Matthew 24:29-31; 1 Corinthians 15:22-23,52-54 and Revelation 19:7 to 20:6) have already happened. For full preterism employs the same "it's only allegorical, not literal" argument which partial preterism uses to mistakenly claim all the highly-detailed, myriad different events of the Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 have already happened. If partial preterism has no problem accepting the Second Coming, resurrection of the Church and rapture haven't occurred yet, for nowhere in history do we find the events of 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 (which are the same events as 2 Thessalonians 2:1, Matthew 24:29-31; 1 Corinthians 15:22-23,52-54 and Revelation 19:7 to 20:6), then why does partial preterism have a problem accepting the fact the events of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 haven't occurred yet either, for nowhere in history do we find these events either?
     
  14. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    Preterism (whether full or partial), as well as historicism (in its various modern forms), and pre-tribulation rapturism, symbolicism, and spiritualism, could all be animated by the same spirit of fear: that the Church alive today throughout the world would otherwise have to physically suffer through the future, almost-entirely literal, worldwide Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. For these five views of preterism, historicism, pre-tribulation rapturism, symbolicism, and spiritualism, in their different ways, each gives a mistaken assurance to the Church alive today that it won't have to physically suffer through the Tribulation.

    Preterism says the Tribulation happened in 70 AD (or a few years before and including 70 AD). Historicism says it happened over a long period in history, such as during the rise and height of the RCC's power in Europe during the Middle Ages and after, or during the rise and spread of Islam in the Middle East and elsewhere during the Middle Ages and after. Pre-tribulation rapturism says Jesus Christ will return and rapture the Church into the 3rd heaven before the Tribulation. Symbolicism says the Tribulation is only symbolic of theological themes which Christians have always had to struggle with (e.g. Matthew 6:24), and is symbolic of only-local physical persecutions which some Christians have always had to face, and are still facing today in some places. And spiritualism says the Tribulation is only spiritual events which go on only within the hearts of individuals.

    But when the almost-entirely literal, worldwide Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 begins in our future, the shaky doctrinal wall which (in their different ways) these 5 views have each tried to build up between the Church and the Tribulation, will be completely shattered (Ezekiel 13:10-12) as the Church worldwide begins to physically suffer through the Tribulation (Matthew 24:9-31, Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6). These 5 views may have left some Christians unprepared mentally to undergo this physical suffering, to where these 5 views could even contribute to some Christians ultimately losing their salvation because of committing apostasy (Hebrews 6:4-8, John 15:6; 2 Timothy 2:12) during the Tribulation, when they will become "offended" that God is letting them and their little ones physically suffer through it (Matthew 24:9-12, Matthew 13:21, Isaiah 8:21-22, Luke 8:13).

    Even though the Church today throughout the world will have to physically suffer through the future Tribulation, the Church need not fear this (cf. 1 Peter 4:12-13, Revelation 2:10). For even though many Christians will suffer and die during that time (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13), this will be to their gain, as it will bring their still-conscious souls into heaven to be with Jesus Christ (Philippians 1:21,23; 2 Corinthians 5:8; see also 2 Corinthians 4:17-18; 2 Timothy 2:12), and it won't rob them of the blessed hope (Titus 2:13) of obtaining eternal life (Titus 1:2, Titus 3:7) in an immortal, physical resurrection body (Romans 8:23-25, Philippians 3:21, Luke 24:39) at Jesus Christ's Second Coming (1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6), which will occur immediately after the future Tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).
     
  15. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The cited fulfillments are undeniable: DECEIVERS; WARS AND RUMORS OF WARS; FAMINES, PESTILENCES, EARTHQUAKES; PERSECUTION AGAINST THE DISCIPLES; GOSPEL TO BE PREACHED TO THE NATIONS
     
  16. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Josephus confirms that the temple was destroyed:
    Wars of the Jews, Book VII, Chapter VIII
    "And I cannot but wish that we had all died before we had seen that holy city demolished by the hands of our enemies, or the foundations of our holy temple dug up after so profane a manner."

    If the foundations of any edifice are dug up, whatever was resting upon them will unquestionably be "thrown down."

    The western wall is referred to in Wikipedia as a retaining wall. If it existed at all in 70 AD (there is ample evidence that it was built or completed later), it either rested on its own foundation, or on an expanded temple platform foundation. If the former, it was not part of the temple proper. If the latter, it would have been "thrown down" along with the temple itself. In either scenario, the final result fulfilled Jesus' prophecy.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2017
  17. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The Reformers were certainly unafraid; they proclaimed historical scriptural fulfillments to the death. They also understood the Church to have been suffering tribulation under the papal antichrist for centuries. They also correctly understood tribulation to be a recurring condition in the life of the historic Christian church. Their example, and that of all who have suffered and do suffer, gives inspiration to the whole of the Church. Also, refer to the "Rapture Wimpism" thread.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2017
  18. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Peter's exhortation was to the believers of the Church at that time (1 Peter 1:1). John's was to the Ephesian church at that time.

    All of these Scriptures addressed contemporary believers and situations of the time, and were intended for awareness, encouragement, and inspiration in the midst of trial. Their historical fulfillments are of the same value to us today.


    "Futurism fantasizes. History realizes."
     
  19. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    What is your literal interpretation of Genesis 3:15?
     
  20. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The abomination of desolation is a reference to the Roman armies which invaded and destroyed Jerusalem, and the temple in particular, as recorded by Josephus. Luke describes the sign, which the believers could await as the trigger for their flight, being that of Jerusalem being compassed with armies. This occurred when the armies of Cestius Gallus advanced on the city, but then suddenly withdrew, opening the interval when the believers could escape. This is well documented in detail historically.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2017
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