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Delusion?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by ByTheSpirit, Aug 15, 2017.

  1. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The majority of the early church fathers considered imperial Rome to be the restrainer, upon whose dissolution the apostate antichrist would emerge. The Roman papacy was ultimately recognized by the Reformers as the fulfillment of the associated prophecies.
     
  2. Erik Nelson

    Erik Nelson Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Apostasy = abandoning everything

    that conclusion appears reasonable to me
     
  3. Erik Nelson

    Erik Nelson Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I can fully agree with those specific interpretations
     
  4. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    The battle between the Old Sinai Covenant and the New Covenant of Christ begins in Acts chapter 10.
    The Judaisers insisted that the Gentile Christians must be circumcised and keep the Law of Moses.
    There are many Judaisers still with us today.


    Later Paul made it clear that this was wrong.

    In 2 Corinthians 3:6-8 Paul calls the Old Covenant a "ministry of death engraved on stones."

    In Galatians 3 we find him making it clear that the law was "added" 430 years "after" the promise made to Abraham "until" the seed could come to whom the promise was made. (Christ). This reveals the temporary nature of the Sinai Covenant. The start of the Old Covenant is found in Exodus 34:28 and Deuteronomy 5:1-3.

    In Galatians 4 he compares the Sinai Covenant to "bondage" and compels the Galatians believers to "cast out" the Sinai Covenant.

    In Hebrews 12:18-24 we find a clear contrast between the Sinai covenant and the New Covenant of Christ.
    We also find the word "church" in the passage.


    There are two different sets of commandments found in the verse below.

    Joh 15:10  If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love. 

    .
     
  5. Hal A Peno

    Hal A Peno Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
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  6. Adstar

    Adstar Well-Known Member

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    There are strong delusions in regard to some false doctrines .. But Paul was talking about people being given over to strong delusions at the time of the coming of the anti-christ so that they will believe the anti-christ and his false prophet.. So since the Anti-christ / son of perdition has not arrived on the scene yet then no the strong delusion is not yet active in regard to him..
     
  7. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    Regarding "the apostate antichrist", what Bible verses did they use to support the idea the Antichrist would be "apostate", rather then simply a non-Christian who'd never been Christian?

    Also, note it's not the Antichrist but his False Prophet who will appear figuratively "like a lamb" (Revelation 13:11), which can mean he (the False Prophet) will present himself to the world as being a Christian, when in fact he will be secretly apostate. For Jesus refers to Christians as being figurative "lambs" (John 21:15b, Luke 10:3). Also, Jesus warns Christians to: "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves" (Matthew 7:15), meaning falsely present themselves as being obedient Christians, for Christians are figurative "sheep" (Matthew 10:16).

    The False Prophet appearing figuratively "like a lamb" (Revelation 13:11) could even mean he will say he is Jesus Himself. For both before and after Revelation 13:11, "a lamb" in Revelation refers to Jesus Himself (Revelation 5:6, Revelation 14:1).

    --

    The False-Prophet "beast" figuratively coming from the land (Revelation 13:11) could mean he will come from Christianity, while the Antichrist "beast" figuratively coming from the sea (Revelation 13:1) could mean he won't come from Christianity.

    The Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast" from the sea) could have grown up as a Druze Arab, in Lebanon, in the modern city of Tyre (Ezekiel 28:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:4). So he could at first present himself to the world as being of the (quasi-Islamic) Druze religion, which is waiting for the second coming of a God-man named Hakim. The Antichrist's last name could be Hakim, and he could at first present himself to the Druze people as the fulfillment of the second coming of this God-man. In this way, he could get the Druze to support him without question during an initial rise to power among the Arabs. The Druze Arabs could be the numerically "small people" of Daniel 11:23. The Antichrist could make them his completely devoted bodyguard, and buy them many key positions of power within a future, United Arab States (which the Antichrist could become the leader of in the first stage of his world takeover), and employ the Druze as loyal spies and assassins at every level of his United Arab government and military.

    The Druze religion is very secretive. What it teaches to its higher-level initiates isn't even taught to its lower-level initiates. What it could teach to its higher-level initiates could basically be Gnosticism mixed in with the Hakim God-man idea. The Antichrist himself, while outwardly a Druze, could inwardly be a Gnostic Luciferian. He could be a highest-level initiate of a worldwide secret society which ultimately teaches Gnostic Luciferianism, but keeps this a secret even from its own members who haven't been initiated into its highest level.

    Regarding "the restrainer", note that the restrainer of the future Antichrist (2 Thessalonians 2:6-8) could be a powerful, good angel, like the one who will restrain Satan at Jesus Christ's Second Coming (Revelation 20:1-3).

    Dispensationalism often claims the restrainer is God's Holy Spirit. But this can't be the case, because in the future the restrainer will be removed (2 Thessalonians 2:7b), while the Holy Spirit can never be removed because He's always omnipresent (Psalms 139:7-10). Similarly, the restrainer can't be the Church or the Holy Spirit in the Church, because the Church won't be removed (John 17:15,20, Proverbs 10:30), and there are no Christians outside of the Church (Ephesians 4:4-5), and no one can be a Christian without the Spirit (Romans 8:9); and the Antichrist will be allowed to physically overcome Christians in every nation (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13), just as, for example, the Roman emperors and Satan were allowed to physically overcome some Christians in the 1st century AD (e.g. Revelation 2:10). Also, Mark 13:11b expressly shows the Holy Spirit will still be with Christians during the future Tribulation.

    Also, the Tribulation passage of Revelation 14:12-13 is the same idea as 1 Thessalonians 5:10-11, meaning obedient Christians can have the comfort of God's Holy Spirit at any time (John 14:15-17), in any tribulation (2 Corinthians 1:4-7), no matter whether they live or die.
     
  8. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    Note that the Roman papacy never fulfilled the Biblical prophecies associated with the Antichrist.

    For example, the Roman papacy never fulfilled the "mark of the beast" (Revelation 13:16-17, Revelation 16:2), which will be a literal, physical mark which will be visible to people, so they can easily tell in every situation whether or not someone should be permitted to buy or sell (Revelation 13:17). The mark will also be visible because the original Greek of Revelation 13:16 shows the mark will be placed only "on" (epi), not inside, people's right hands or foreheads. Also, it will be placed on people probably by scarification. For in Revelation 13:16, one of the definitions of the original Greek word (charagma: G5480) translated as the "mark" is "a scratch or etching" (Strong's Greek Dictionary), and scarification is the scratching or etching (that is, the cutting) of the skin to leave a permanent mark. The reason people will be given the mark in Revelation 13:16, in the context of what was shown previously in Revelation 13:4,8,15, will be to serve as a visible indicator to other people they're loyal worshippers of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9) and of the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) and his image (Revelation 13:4,8,15), just as some Luciferians today put a mark on themselves by scarification.

    The mark will consist of only the Antichrist's name "or" some representation of the gematrial number of his name (666) (Revelation 13:17-18), meaning the mark will be the Antichrist's name for some people and a representation of the gematrial number of his name for other people. And the mark will be placed only on the right hand (probably on the palm) "or" on the forehead (Revelation 13:16), meaning it will be placed on the right hand of some people and on the forehead of other people.

    Those who refuse to receive the Antichrist's mark won't be allowed to buy or sell anything (Revelation 13:17), and they will be executed by being beheaded if they refuse to worship the Antichrist and his image (Revelation 13:15, Revelation 20:4). Christians must be willing to suffer this fate rather than agree to receive the Antichrist's mark or worship him or his image, for those people who agree to do these things, even if they're Christians, will suffer God's wrath in fire and brimstone forever (Revelation 14:9-13), while those Christians who refuse to do these things, even though they will be beheaded by the Antichrist, will subsequently be physically resurrected into immortality (along with the rest of the obedient Church of all times) at Jesus Christ's Second Coming (Revelation 20:4-6; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,52-58), immediately after the Tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31). And even before their resurrection, at the moment of their death their still-conscious souls will be brought into the presence of Jesus in heaven (cf. 2 Corinthians 5:8, Philippians 1:21,23, Revelation 6:9-10, Luke 23:43,46).

    In the future, when the world begins to worship the Antichrist as God (Revelation 13:8; 2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36), some people could gladly be willing to have his name placed by scarification on their right palm, just as lovers in the past were sometimes known to have their loved ones' initials placed by scarification on their palm (compare also Isaiah 49:16, Jeremiah 48:37, Leviticus 19:28, and Leviticus 21:5). Other of the Antichrist's worshippers could gladly be willing to have his name placed by scarification on their forehead, thinking (mistakenly) that they're fulfilling the Christian idea of Revelation 22:4, which refers to the future point in time when Jesus will put God's name visibly on the forehead of obedient Christians (Revelation 3:12). The Antichrist's miracle-working False Prophet, who will be the one who will cause everyone to be marked with the Antichrist's mark (Revelation 13:16-18), could even convince people that he (the False Prophet) is Jesus returned. But he won't say he's Christ, for he and the Antichrist will deny Jesus is the Christ, and deny Christ is in the flesh (1 John 2:22; 2 John 1:7).

    Instead of having the Antichrist's name engraved on their right hand or forehead, some of his worshippers will have the gematrial number of his name (666) (Revelation 13:17c-18) engraved on their right hand or forehead. But because some people could refuse to have "666" placed on their body, in order to make a mark of 666 acceptable to all people, it could be disguised to look like something else in those cases where people demand something other than "666". For example, it could be disguised in some cases to look like "777", or "111", or "WWW", or "VVV", or "|| || ||", or "FFF". For the 6th letter of the ancient Hebrew alphabet (Vav) represents the number 6, but it looks like a "7", or a "1", and it's transliterated into English as either a "W" or a "V". Also, two thin vertical lines "||" represent the number 6 on many UPC codes. And the letter "F" has a numerical value of 6 in English gematria.

    In an awful coincidence (or maybe it's not just a coincidence), "FFF" also stands for an extremely powerful type of nuclear bomb: Fission-Fusion-Fission. Could this be the type of bomb which the 10 kings of the Antichrist's empire will employ to burn up the cities of the nations at the end of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Revelation 17:12,16-17a, Revelation 16:19, Revelation 19:2,11)?

    The "WWW" which has been placed on many internet addresses, and the "|| || ||" which has been placed across many UPC codes on products (that is, they have a "||" at the beginning, middle, and end of their UPC codes), are harbingers of when Lucifer will give the Antichrist ownership of everything on the earth (Revelation 13:2b; cf. Luke 4:7), and of the Antichrist placing his "brand" on everything, like how a rancher places his "brand" on all his cattle. For both "WWW" and "|| || ||" are disguised representations of the gematrial number of the Antichrist's name: 666 (Revelation 13:17c-18). But Revelation 13:16 isn't fulfilled by some internet addresses having a "WWW", nor by some products having "|| || ||" on their UPC codes. For Revelation 13:16 refers only to when people will be given the Antichrist's mark, on either their right hand or forehead.

    Those assigned to have the mark placed on their forehead (instead of on their right hand) (Revelation 13:16) could be an elite, illumined, cognoscenti class of Gnostic Luciferians who alone will have been given knowledge of the ultimate secrets of the Antichrist's Gnostic Luciferianism. The Antichrist will be both a Luciferian, a worshipper of Lucifer/Satan the dragon (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9), and a Gnostic, someone who denies Christ is in the flesh (1 John 4:3), and forbids marriage and the eating of meat (1 Timothy 4:1-3). The cream of his cognoscenti could be a faux 144,000, consisting of male virgins (as a counterfeit of Revelation 14:4) who have never eaten meat. If they receive on their forehead the mark of the Antichrist's name (instead of a representation of the number of his name) (Revelation 13:17), this will be as a counterfeit of YHWH's 144,000 in Revelation 14:1. But the Antichrist won't pretend he's YHWH, just as he won't pretend he's Christ. Instead, as a Gnostic, he will utterly revile YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36). And his Gnostic denial that Christ is in the flesh (1 John 4:3) will disqualify him (under his mistaken Gnostic doctrine) from being Christ.
     
  9. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    2 Thessalonians 2:3
    Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction NASB
     
  10. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Start with Daniel 7:24-25.
     
  11. Hal A Peno

    Hal A Peno Well-Known Member

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    cjh
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
  12. victorinus

    victorinus catholic

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    what kind of religion would take peace from the earth?
    -
    what kind of religion would the antichrist start?
     
  13. Hal A Peno

    Hal A Peno Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
  14. victorinus

    victorinus catholic

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    do you read any history?
     
  15. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Historical fulfillment is anathema to futurized fantasy.
     
  16. victorinus

    victorinus catholic

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    sounds like you agree with me
     
  17. Hal A Peno

    Hal A Peno Well-Known Member

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    ff
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
  18. victorinus

    victorinus catholic

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    what passage in rev 17
     
  19. Erik Nelson

    Erik Nelson Well-Known Member Supporter

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    At the beginning of the Millennium (Rev 20), Evil is bound, and loosed afterwards. Prima facie, Christianity and the Church of Christ are therefore the "restraining force", which is "taken out of the way" after the Millennium, so beginning the End Times... when a Deceiver lures masses of Christians to "apostatize" and utterly forsake the Faith.

    Logically distinctly, one could construe such an "apostasy" in modern times, with hundreds of millions of European former Christians forsaking the (allegedly right, correct) Faith for "Leftism".
     
  20. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    Note that in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 the apostasy can be in the Church, while the man of lawlessness (that is the future Antichrist) can come from outside the Church. That is, nothing in 2 Thessalonians 2:3, or any other Bible verse, says or requires the Antichrist himself will be apostate, that is, someone who was once a Christian but then rejected Christianity. Instead, the Antichrist can simply be someone who was never a Christian.
     
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