Deconversion?

[SJC-Coop]

WIth all due respect SC I was not aware that this thread was about you and the need to dialogue and with you about anything at all. This is about faith or no faith and what Criada is going through. I would love to have this blanket of nothingless lift off ofher as she once was full of belief and the love of Jesus Christ in her life and ministry of love in this place. It is as more about our understanding where she is at as our trying to convince her of anything. We can I think share respectfully ideas or experices we have had that we think might help and as she once believed the Bible this could be included. Hopefully in whatever is said it is an encouragement to her I don't think debate and argument could be. gg

I agree it's not about me...I'm giving my life experiences to share in the hope that she may identify with it and not feel so alone.

It can be quite daunting to feel this way when everyone around you seem not to have ever experienced it...I posted because I identified.

 

[gratefulgrace]

I know what I needed to be reassured that his promises are true and that he is actually there....and I know that I didn't get anything...I didn't get what I expected, I didn't get what I didn't expect...I got nothing...

I prayed, I begged, I pleaded.

I did not put any limitations on god or request anything specific.

I asked him to restore my faith. I told him that I was lost. I told him that my faith was slipping and that I was calling to him...I asked him to give me the gift of faith...to extent to me the gift of faith promised by him in his word...I asked him to come to my rescuse because I was lost and confused about him...I asked for his reasurance...



No special requests on how, I just pleaded with him to see his child that had gotten turned around in the dark woods of the world...I needed him to reassure me...to give me even the smallest amount of faith so that I can know that he is there and that I can follow him once more....

And now I'm atheist. There's nothig there.

You feel from your experiences that because you did not get a certain experiencial something from your struggle with your faith that God does not exist. I think what many of us here are trying to explain is that our faith does not rest in experiences but in something else. That is why when life hands us lemons we do not assume that God has somehow walked out locked the door behind himself or worse yet never even existed. I cannot say why it is different for us and not your you but I pray that Criada's heart will not becomed so hardened by sorrow that she cannot retain a spark of faith in this bleak and unfeeling time of her life. gg

 

[gratefulgrace]

Sorry I meant to include in my last post that I did appreciate your sharing more about your experiences SC as it helped me understand you better. gg

 

[Philothei]

No special requests on how, I just pleaded with him to see his child that had gotten turned around in the dark woods of the world...I needed him to reassure me...to give me even the smallest amount of faith so that I can know that he is there and that I can follow him once more....

Looking for a 'sign' is not always a good way to be reassured by God for His existance. Faith comes to those who take the leap into believing first then the sign might or may not come. Many atheists have seen signs after they remained in God's path and will for a while. Many believers NEVER ever had a sign.... of God yet they are persuaded from those who did got that sign as the Prophets etc.

But if one does not beleive in the Bible as being a 'sign: from God how one expects to aquire faith??? Impossilble I say

 

[SJC-Coop]

It is still a Christian site and there are still rules.

More mods...lovely...

Is this because I told someone that quoting from the bible to me is useless?
I'm not telling them that the bible is false, I'm not demanding for evidence, I'm just telling them it doesn't do anything for me.

To Criada...sorry about this, it seems like these folks are on some kind of hair trigger or something...I won't derail your thread, I just wanted to tell you that I was there too and you are not alone.

 

[A New Dawn]

I know what I needed to be reassured that his promises are true and that he is actually there....and I know that I didn't get anything...I didn't get what I expected, I didn't get what I didn't expect...I got nothing...

I prayed, I begged, I pleaded.

I did not put any limitations on god or request anything specific.

I asked him to restore my faith. I told him that I was lost. I told him that my faith was slipping and that I was calling to him...I asked him to give me the gift of faith...to extent to me the gift of faith promised by him in his word...I asked him to come to my rescuse because I was lost and confused about him...I asked for his reasurance...

No special requests on how, I just pleaded with him to see his child that had gotten turned around in the dark woods of the world...I needed him to reassure me...to give me even the smallest amount of faith so that I can know that he is there and that I can follow him once more....

And now I'm atheist. There's nothig there.

And did God not answering within your time restrictions or according to your expectations change the fact that you had a relationship with Him before that? That is what I can't understand. How can someone who claimed to have a relationship with God deny that relationship because God wasn't performing the way someone wants him to perform. (I do understand the agony of the deep night of the soul, but to deny that what once gave you great joy and hope is what I don't understand.) It's like being married and then getting divorced, and later claiming that because you don't have any feelings towards your former spouse, the marriage never existed.

 

[SJC-Coop]

At any rate, it's home time for me so I bid you all adieu

 

[Hentenza]

I know what I needed to be reassured that his promises are true and that he is actually there....and I know that I didn't get anything...I didn't get what I expected, I didn't get what I didn't expect...I got nothing...

I prayed, I begged, I pleaded.

I did not put any limitations on god or request anything specific.

I asked him to restore my faith. I told him that I was lost. I told him that my faith was slipping and that I was calling to him...I asked him to give me the gift of faith...to extent to me the gift of faith promised by him in his word...I asked him to come to my rescuse because I was lost and confused about him...I asked for his reasurance...

No special requests on how, I just pleaded with him to see his child that had gotten turned around in the dark woods of the world...I needed him to reassure me...to give me even the smallest amount of faith so that I can know that he is there and that I can follow him once more....

And now I'm atheist. There's nothig there.

I understand completely believe me, I've been there. But I am here to tell you that Him not answering you yet does not in any way equate to Him not being there. I am not going to presume to know why he hasn't answer you because I do not know, however, you will not die without having a chance to physically reject God. He will make himself known to you at His own time not yours.

 

[A New Dawn]

More mods...lovely...

Is this because I told someone that quoting from the bible to me is useless?
I'm not telling them that the bible is false, I'm not demanding for evidence, I'm just telling them it doesn't do anything for me.

To Criada...sorry about this, it seems like these folks are on some kind of hair trigger or something...I won't derail your thread, I just wanted to tell you that I was there too and you are not alone.

If you read through the thread, you will see that there have been a few that were asked to be a bit more respectful. (Not all non-Christian, either.)

 

[SJC-Coop]

And did God not answering within your time restrictions or according to your expectations change the fact that you had a relationship with Him before that? That is what I can't understand. How can someone who claimed to have a relationship with God deny that relationship because God wasn't performing the way someone wants him to perform. (I do understand the agony of the deep night of the soul, but to deny that what once gave you great joy and hope is what I don't understand.) It's like being married and then getting divorced, and later claiming that because you don't have any feelings towards your former spouse, the marriage never existed.

This experience made me evaluate my whole life pervious to that. It made me realise that the events that made me believe that he was there in the past was mainly coincidental and me blindly trusting others without question...it was a big eye opener...anyway I REALLY have to run now!

 

[Criada]

No, it's like being married and deeply in love, and waking up one morning to find your spouse has vanished.
You keep thinking there is a reason, that they will get in touch, that they are still there and still love you. And then after a while the guilt co,mes, and you go over every tiny thing you said or did, trying to work out what you did wrong, beating yourself up for every mistake, every moment you weren't with him...
And in the end, when you hear nothing, when he doesn't come back, you give up. You grieve and wonder how you can carry on without him, but, somehow, you have to.

 

[Hentenza]

Thank you! That is the first time, I think, that someone has managed to put into words where I am...
Not quite an atheist as yet.. but starting to give up on the calling for help!

I went through it when I was 22 years old and caused me to become an agnostic with periods of full blown atheism until I was almost 37. The problem, I realized later, was that my unbelief came from my own expectations. I basically expected that God would indeed just drop everything and come to my rescue. That did not happen then so I stopped trusting Him. But He did come to my rescue. Just not when and how I expected it. Hang in there. He is real.

 

[Tinker Grey]

Unfortunately, the only responses so many religious people can give is that the struggler is always at fault--you haven't persisted; you haven't prayed long enough, loud enough, or hard enough; your motives are wrong; wait longer; ask for a sign; don't ask for a sign; have faith (you haven't); grow up; become as a child; trust the bible; it isn't about feelings (unless it is some other thread where intellect is castigated); etc.

A person is in pain--and the response is to blame. Of course, what other response is there. If it isn't the struggler's fault, it would be God's. And, that can't be. Unfortunately, that is no help at all.

On behalf of strugglers everywhere, kudos to those Christians who limited their responses to "I'm so sorry; I've been there; I'm praying for you."

 

[Hentenza]

Unfortunately, the only responses so many religious people can give is that the struggler is always at fault--you haven't persisted; you haven't prayed long enough, loud enough, or hard enough; your motives are wrong; wait longer; ask for a sign; don't ask for a sign; have faith (you haven't); grow up; become as a child; trust the bible; it isn't about feelings (unless it is some other thread where intellect is castigated); etc.

A person is in pain--and the response is to blame. Of course, what other response is there. If it isn't the struggler's fault, it would be God's. And, that can't be. Unfortunately, that is no help at all.

On behalf of strugglers everywhere, kudos to those Christians who limited their responses to "I'm so sorry; I've been there; I'm praying for you."

Yeah, I hate it when some just blame the struggler. That makes no sense. I don't know why God does what He does or why. Neither did Job by the way. He didn't do anything wrong either.

Sometimes it can indeed be the person but other times it is God's plan and consequently God's "fault". I don't have an answer as to why but it is what it is.

 

[A New Dawn]

Unfortunately, the only responses so many religious people can give is that the struggler is always at fault--you haven't persisted; you haven't prayed long enough, loud enough, or hard enough; your motives are wrong; wait longer; ask for a sign; don't ask for a sign; have faith (you haven't); grow up; become as a child; trust the bible; it isn't about feelings (unless it is some other thread where intellect is castigated); etc.

A person is in pain--and the response is to blame. Of course, what other response is there. If it isn't the struggler's fault, it would be God's. And, that can't be. Unfortunately, that is no help at all.

On behalf of strugglers everywhere, kudos to those Christians who limited their responses to "I'm so sorry; I've been there; I'm praying for you."

I'm sorry if you have mistaken my response as blame. I might question (as I did) how they can "forget" the relationship they had with God, but I wouldn't blame. I don't believe that one needs to earn God's presence, and likewise, there is nothing they can do to push God away. Sometimes there is no place to lay fault. It happens because it happens, and we need to wait on the Lord. Our ways are not His ways.

 

[Tinker Grey]

I'm sorry if you have mistaken my response as blame. I might question (as I did) how they can "forget" the relationship they had with God, but I wouldn't blame. I don't believe that one needs to earn God's presence, and likewise, there is nothing they can do to push God away. Sometimes there is no place to lay fault. It happens because it happens, and we need to wait on the Lord. Our ways are not His ways.

I wasn't targeting any one poster. It just seems like as we approach 400 posts that this is what it adds up to -- and the sum is rather infuriating.

I appreciate your clarification, though.

 

[Chaplain David]

I know how you view the bible, and yes, you are fully entitled to believe it...but to quote it to me does nothing.

Perhaps not but the interchange that you seemingly disregard could be quite important or enlightening to others reading it. Criada started this thread and I'm so glad she did. It is affirming to the Christians because of our faith and some of us having gone through similiar circumstances. It supports Criada and shows love, caring and kindness. It might even have a beneficial effect on agnostics, atheists, and people of other religions reading the thread. When I was a pagan I thought Christians were a little wacko. But because I had read all the major holy books of the world's religions I recognized that the Holy Bible contained many good life lesson's and spiritual truths. God bless you.

 

[gratefulgrace]

Unfortunately, the only responses so many religious people can give is that the struggler is always at fault--you haven't persisted; you haven't prayed long enough, loud enough, or hard enough; your motives are wrong; wait longer; ask for a sign; don't ask for a sign; have faith (you haven't); grow up; become as a child; trust the bible; it isn't about feelings (unless it is some other thread where intellect is castigated); etc.

A person is in pain--and the response is to blame. Of course, what other response is there. If it isn't the struggler's fault, it would be God's. And, that can't be. Unfortunately, that is no help at all.

On behalf of strugglers everywhere, kudos to those Christians who limited their responses to "I'm so sorry; I've been there; I'm praying for you."

That is exactly what Job's "comforters" acted like blaming Job for everything he was going through. They thought they had all the answers too. gg

 

[Criada]

Everyone who has responded here has been doing their best to help, according to their own beliefs and opinions. I appreciate every one of you, and I am very grateful for the love and support, even from those who don't understand.
But, please, can we not get into arguing about it? I wanted to ask people who have different ideas about how they have/would deal with a sudden loss of faith. I value all the contributions, and they have given me a lot to think about, but I really don't want this to turn into an argument about what is and isn't supportive.

 

[Tinker Grey]

Sorry for the distraction.