Deconversion?

[Sojourner1]

You know, that really doesn't help.
And, given that salvation is by grace, not by works, surely there is nothing I can do anyway. It's up to God, and if he exists, he doesn't want to know me.
So... if you think I should do more, how about some ideas?

At one time you believed in God and were saved...He has already given you the gift of faith. I honestly believe that God has not abandoned you and He has not removed you from His grace. Is it possible that your depression may be overwhelming you at this point? My mom suffers from depression as does my oldest son. They have their good times and their really bad times (not days, sometimes it's weeks). When they are depressed it affects every aspect of their lives...even their faith. But when they come through the depression their faith is always still there.

 

[Philothei]

This might be true if I were trying to convince Criada of anything in this thread. I have offered her my story (in a PM) and empathized where her feelings have coincided with mine. I have emphasized that it is not her fault and that she is normal and that her feelings are normal.

I do not recall anyone saying that her fellings are not "normal" either..... Far from it we all expressed the normalcy of doubting and losing faith...No one is pointing fingers ...Also about Job the point is not that his friends were wrong about accusing him... ONLY as the main character in the story is Job and how he came through his trial and he went on relating to God and reconciling with God. That is the point of the story. The fact his friends were "wrong" was a secondary point "theme" and I agree with you that is a "no-no" to do ...to point the finger while someone is hurting like that ....

 

[Criada]

I don't know. I've been depressed for most of my adult life, I think.. but usually the dark times have brought me closer to God... or at least made me realise that I needed to lean on him... that was the only way through.
This is very different....

ETA: this was in response to Sojourner1's post

 

[Chaplain David]

I don't know. I've been depressed for most of my adult life, I think.. but usually the dark times have brought me closer to God... or at least made me realise that I needed to lean on him... that was the only way through.
This is very different....

ETA: this was in response to Sojourner1's post

Wow Sarah. This hasn't been my experience. For the most part I've left depression behind but I do tend toward a dysthymia or melancholia sometimes. I mean sometimes it's a chemical imbalance and sometimes it's that a person has a number of real things in their lives (such as illnesses, disabilities, relationship problems) that are wearing them down and get depressed from them. It's been my personal experience with depression that I distance myself from everything, kind of pull back, even from God and ministry. I think that's where the expression that you get through the day by putting one step in front of the other one comes from.

YBIC,

 

[Jo1]

((((((((((((((((((((((HUGS))))))))))))))))))) its going to b ok. We all love you.

 

[Criada]

Thanks.
I can't do it, I'm sorry.
I feel so useless... not being able to pray for people and believe it makes a difference is horrible... I don't know how to reach out to those who are hurting any longer, because it's just me, and I'm not capable. And without that, I don't know who I am, or what the point of life is.

 

[A New Dawn]

Thanks.
I can't do it, I'm sorry.
I feel so useless... not being able to pray for people and believe it makes a difference is horrible... I don't know how to reach out to those who are hurting any longer, because it's just me, and I'm not capable. And without that, I don't know who I am, or what the point of life is.

Sometimes, instead of reaching out, we need to be reached out to. I think this is perfectly natural. I think, as was mentioned above, that sometimes the searching and doing gets in the way and you need to back off a bit and let others serve you. You need to heal.

Love you, sis!

 

[Tinker Grey]

When I was a Christian I would ask them what it is that they want to do. The point being that if God made you who you are and was working in your life then your desires might reflect his will for you.

If God has left many doors open for you and you don't know which one to pick, then you should pick the one you want. If it isn't God's will for your life, let him close it. In the meantime move forward.

I think this advice applies to non-Christians as well as Christians. When there is no should that can determine what to do next, do what you want.

IOW, I hope to leave the world better than I found it. And, I hope to do it in a way that satisfies who I am and how I am.

I too struggle with what to do next. The above is nice and all but I still don't know how to do it. But I do think it is okay to enjoy life and to consider the future an adventure.

Too, if God is real then working for the good of man, I think, is equivalent to working for "thy kingdom come". If you return to him, then you'll find your time not wasted. If he is not real, then at least you've done good.

 

[Tinker Grey]

Sometimes, instead of reaching out, we need to be reached out to. I think this is perfectly natural. I think, as was mentioned above, that sometimes the searching and doing gets in the way and you need to back off a bit and let others serve you. You need to heal.

Love you, sis!

This is good, too.

 

[gratefulgrace]

Criada

 

[FaithfulWife]

Thanks.
I can't do it, I'm sorry.
I feel so useless... not being able to pray for people and believe it makes a difference is horrible... I don't know how to reach out to those who are hurting any longer, because it's just me, and I'm not capable. And without that, I don't know who I am, or what the point of life is.

My dearest sister,

First, once again, on behalf of most christians I'm sorry that you've received this kind of response on your thread and it's been insensitive. I don't know WHY we have to always argue and blame rather to keeping our eyes fixed on G*d. Then again...we just do! It's what makes us humans, don't you think?

Second, may I remind you of something? And yes, it is from the bible but I think it's relevant here:

Ephesian 2:8 (KJV)~For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast.
​

Dear one, G*d loves you dearly and wants to be in a relationship with you so much so that He became flesh for you. He did all the work. We are saved by His grace, and I personally believe that He chooses us. So you do not have the burden of needing to cry, pray, fast, or test Him. He has chosen you, and you *ARE* a dearly beloved daughter of the Most High G*d--this is who you are, and that can not change. When He looks at you, He sees the righteousness of Christ, and you can not lose that position.

We here on this forum hear you struggling. Boy it would be nice if we could say "Do A, B, and C and you will feel better and feel G*d's presence" but sadly that's not the way it works. We hate to see you hurting so, and I'm sure many here reply in an effort to sort of give you something to do so you can feel like you're doing ... something. But Criada here's my honest guess. I believe you are in fact sort of testing G*d, and you have expectations about what you think His response should be, and He's not meeting your expectations.

I think I would have two thoughts. One is to stop struggling so much and be still. Psalm 46:10 tells us to "Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth." I know for my own self, when I was really struggling and wrestling with Him, I heard Him the most when *I* stopped trying to be in control and let Him. Again...that's just my opinion. My second thought is about helping others and praying for others. Dear one, it is part of your very nature to want to help others, and at least in the past I think you believed your prayers were heard and meant something--helping to uplift and support the person. These days you're not so sure if anyone even hears your prayers...and yet you'd like to help still. I suggest being honest and saying, "My thoughts will be with you" or "You'll be in my thoughts for encouragement." This is honestly the truth of where you're at, and it does indicate to the person that you care and you're thinking of them.

Okay--nuff said. I love you like always.





~Faithful

 

[gratefulgrace]

I too believe there is light at the end of the tunnel for Criada. Even Christians know about living life to the fullest though it is not a new or Atheistic concept. We just believe that there is eternal significance to the choices we make as we live that life. I also believe that whether we FEEL God or not is not so important really. Peace SJC

gg

 

[Tishri1]

I don't know. I've been depressed for most of my adult life, I think.. but usually the dark times have brought me closer to God... or at least made me realise that I needed to lean on him... that was the only way through.
This is very different....

ETA: this was in response to Sojourner1's post

I think the times we live in are very different now and our struggles will be deeper...hang in there sweet thing

 

[Gwenyfur]

eternal significance to misery, doing without, deprivation, guilt, etc...

yeah...

so much for god wanting you to be "happy" and "enjoy his creation" eh...

 

[Tishri1]

Thanks.
I can't do it, I'm sorry.
I feel so useless... not being able to pray for people and believe it makes a difference is horrible... I don't know how to reach out to those who are hurting any longer, because it's just me, and I'm not capable. And without that, I don't know who I am, or what the point of life is.

You have helped me sooooo many times Sis and you have been there for me thru the big and the tiny things, you've just been there....maybe this lack of ability is just a sign that now its time to work on you......I have done that before where everything just went dead till I was done working on my own stuff then just like that everything fired up again

 

[sk8Joyful]

Emotions/feelings are designed to lead us away from God.

God, in the 1st. place, created us each with 'emotions, and feelings' , &
also evidently God judges our ability for emotions and feelings as excellent , or He would've left these out.

What too many christians not consider is their ability, given feelings & emotions to change

When people choose from depressive emotions to heal... , their relationship with God remains present.

 

[Chaplain David]

I don't know. I've been depressed for most of my adult life, I think.. but usually the dark times have brought me closer to God... or at least made me realise that I needed to lean on him... that was the only way through.
This is very different....

ETA: this was in response to Sojourner1's post

Hi Sweetie,

Although I have already replied to this particular post I was just reading some of the replies and some things came to me. From everything you've said about depression and the way you feel I do not personally think whatever care you are receiving for the depression and any other symptoms is working very well. If I were you I would be running not walking to better care and all that could entail. I believe that there is positive relief for you and even happiness. It just might take a little more work on your part and better medical support. My dad died last Dec 23rd and I'm still going to grief counseling because it affected me so strongly. It takes what it takes and we are all individual.

Leaving Christ is certainly important, but when one of the main causes of your not feeling God could be severe, active depression, it would be extremely beneficial to you as an individual and Spiritually, to try and get more help than whatever you may be now receiving.

Your friend,

 

[sk8Joyful]

when one of the main causes of your not feeling God
is severe, active depression, it would be extremely beneficial to you as an individual and Spiritually, to get more help

agreed, especially with competent help.

(Not someone merely rehashing sadness endlessly,
robbing you of your money),

by competent help, meaning someone sincerely interested in 'your finest well-being...', someone with the skills
& experience to help you bring-out & empower the woman God knows you as and enjoys relationship with...

 

[suzybeezy]

eternal significance to misery, doing without, deprivation, guilt, etc...

yeah...

so much for god wanting you to be "happy" and "enjoy his creation" eh...

I know that must seem like a shocking revelation, but it is true nonetheless, Jesus came to make our life harder. He came to correct our spiritual flaws, and make sure we are perfected for the Father.

Jesus even fully acknowledges that you will have it hard when you follow him, throughout the New Testament he clearly says multiple times, “You will be hated by men for my name’s sake,” and “You will be persecuted…” As we can see from history, Jesus wasn’t exaggerating one bit. The early apostles suffered terrible deaths (some were killed by stoning, some were reportedly crucified, some beheaded, and worse). So Jesus certainly didn’t come to ensure his followers were pampered.

I say this because God allows us to go through trials and tribulations to actually strengthen our faith. We must rely on what He's already done in our lives to see this is true. I think back to horrible sorrow-filled situations I've been in and now see how that time changed me for the better, strengthened my faith and dependence on Him. Sometimes he allows us to be emptied (of our will) so that he can fill us up again with his will for our lives.

An unknown author wrote the following:

One by one God took them from me
All the things I valued most;
Until I was empty-handed,
Every glittering toy was lost.
And I walked earth's highways,
Grieving, in my rags and poverty.
Until I heard His voice inviting,
"Lift those empty hands to Me!"

Then I turned my hands to heaven,
And He filled them with His riches,
Until they could contain no more. And at last I comprehended
With my stupid mind, and dull,
That God cannot pour His riches
Into hands already full.



Still very much praying for you Criada, grab me on IM any time you wanna talk.

 

[sk8Joyful]

Jesus came to make our life harder. He came to correct our spiritual flaws,
and make sure we are perfected for the Father.

God created humanity with Spiritual flaws?? -
and Jesus came, to make our life harder?? -
in those cases, christians "de-converting" from such dogma, is a good thing!

edit, to add: too many christians, doggedly cling to suffering.
As IF God created this planet, & all lifeforms on it, for the express purpose of suffering. But that's only an empty IF,
nothing more; hence why I said "de-converting" from such dogma, is a good thing!
---
Sarah, feel free nourishing yourself with God/Jesus' Loving-counsels...
God as your Savior created you to bask in His LOVE, & in this state know you make a positive-difference in people's lives, thinking well of yourself as well. - Verily, God created us each for living...peacefully happily-productively, plus for sharing these emotional experiences with others intending others bask on these Spiritual-feelings too! - ALL such in PRAISE of God, adds to His Glory & is only good; the most blissful whole relationship you or anyone could want!