Daniel's 70th week

[pasifika]

I realize that's counter to a lot of mainstream Christian teaching - but I believe He forgave on the Cross (and I wasn't confessing at that time). I believe forgiveness is a two part process. He (figuratively) held out His hand and offered forgiveness......actual reconciliation and relationship is when we accept His forgiveness.......but the offer (the free gift) is being offered first.

Romans 5:8 ~ But God proves His love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.​

Hello, well how can we sin or confessing any sins when we were not even born yet at time of the cross? Sin is when we transgress the Law, is an act of disobedience on our own individual part.

 

[pasifika]

I do believe the "Day of the Lord" is fulfilled (in the first century)......but also believe that the sanctification applies to everyone (we ALL have "rough edges" to be polished).


Jesus, who came "to save his people from their sins", accomplished this when He "put away sin by the sacrifice of himself" (Mt. 1:21; Heb. 9:26). "It is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins... But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever...has perfected for ever them that are sanctified...And their sins... remember no more" (Heb. 10:4-11). The old system of sacrifices could never make an end of sins, but Christ—by the sacrifice of himself—did make an end of sins, even as the prophecy had said.

John announced him as "the Lamb of God, which takes away the sins of the world" (John 1:29). "Christ died for our sins" (1 Cor. 15:3). He "bare our sins in his own body on the tree" (l Peter 2:24) and "has once suffered for sins" (3:18). "He was manifested to take away our sins" (l John 3:5). This "end of sins" was accomplished at Calvary.

In my belief......Scripture seems to be pointing to the fact that at Calvary the eternal sacrifice for sin was made, so that any and all—past, present, or future —who will be forgiven of sins will be forgiven because our Lord' s death almost 2,000 years ago made an "end of sins". That was the ONLY and LAST sacrifice that could "put away sin" for good.

Hello, this is a warning from Paul about those who preach that the "Day of the Lord" has already come...2Thessalonians 2:1-4

 

[mkgal1]

Hello, this is a warning from Paul about those who preach that the "Day of the Lord" has already come...2Thessalonians 2:1-4

Paul gave that warning PRIOR to the Day of the Lord. Notice a characteristic that's included in the Day of the Lord (are we NOT "gathered together to Him"....."reconciled to Him" already?):

v. 1 ~ and our being gathered together to Him​

 

[mkgal1]

Hello, well how can we sin or confessing any sins when we were not even born yet at time of the cross?

That's actually my point. He forgave our sin then - even though we weren't around to confess our sin at the time (I believe, anyway).

 

[sovereigngrace]

The end of the age which the prophecies spoke of and which they asked about. It ended just when Jesus said it would end.



You are conflating two things. Jesus was not talking about the end of the world in Matt 24. He couldn't have been talking about that because he told them it would happen before "this generation" passed. He was answering their question about the end of the age. And the end of the last days as spoken of by prophecy ended right when he said it would.



The day Peter is talking about is the Last Day.



We're not in a grace period where Jews can practice the law of Moses. The grace period I'm talking about was the allowance of Jews to continue in the old law until they heard the gospel and either obeyed it or rejected the Messiah. Some had several chances and still rejected Christ. Now it isn't even possible to obey the law of Moses even if one wanted to.

We're under grace right now. Anyone can obey the gospel including a Jew who thinks he's following the law of Moses. The end of the age of the Jewish 'dispensation' does not end grace. Grace is just God's favor. That particular period of grace was extended for the sake of the 'remnant' which God promised he would save. We've all been grafted in to the new Israel, spiritual Israel. We're all spiritual Jews now, members of God's holy kingdom and others obviously can come into the kingdom as well, both Jew and Gentile.

You have skipped over so much Scripture that forbids your position that it is hard to know where to start. You have to do that for your reasoning to survive. I think you think if you ignore a detailed rebuttal it makes it invalid. But the opposite is normally the case. That tactic shows the weakness of your position.

Why do you think Jesus said "it is finished"? Why simultaneously was the temple curtain cut in two? Because the old covenant arrangement was dead and a new covenant had replaced it. I showed you repeated scripture that shows that the New Testament writers saw and thought this. This was way before AD70 and the coming of Titus. Post #337 ably shows this.

Nowhere does it call the change from the old covenant to the new covenant the end of the age. You force that into the sacred text. It does not exist there! The end of the age introduces eternity. Every single passage relating to the end of the age sees the literal physical visible coming of Christ and the physical resurrection of the dead and their glorification.

So let me try again to get you address the evidence that forbid your focus on the coming of Titus in AD70. It is real easy to piece this whole thing together. The detail that is attributed to the
end of the age is exactly the same as that attributed to the last day. It is the same climactic day. It is the day when Jesus comes at the end and judges both the righteous and the wicked.

I will repost!

Last day

John 11:21-27 records: “Then said Martha unto Jesus, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died. But I know, that even now, whatsoever thou wilt ask of God, God will give it thee. Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.”

Christ did not rebuke this understanding of the last day. In fact, it was in complete agreement with what Christ had previously taught in John 6:39-44, 54, where He said, “And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day …No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day ... Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

The righteous are resurrected! When does this happen? When Jesus Comes. This is clear and simple!

That is not all.

Christ tells us in John 12:48, “He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.”

There you have it! The same day that the righteous are raised is the same day the wicked are judged.

Christ describes this day as an unanticipated day for many – one that will find many unprepared. For those who are playing at religion they will be caught on. They will face the same punishment as the “hypocrite” when He comes: “there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” The wicked are an all-inclusive group; they include every Christ-rejecter – from the religious professors to the outright profane hypocrites. They will all be caught in the destruction when they are left behind and the “heaven and earth ... pass away.”

The Bible shows the resurrection/judgment of the righteous and the resurrection of the wicked to occur on “the last day” of “the last days” when Jesus comes.

The end of the age

It is not just that Scripture depicts the second coming as “the last day,” it is that it labels it also as “the end of the age/world.”

Jesus taught in the parable of the wheat and tares (in Matthew 13:24-30), “The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field. But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed among the wheat, and went his way …Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.”

Verses 39-43 continues, “the harvest is the end of the world (or aion or age); and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world (or aion or age). The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father.”

Jesus locates “the harvest” of both the wicked and the righteous at “the end of the aion or age.” We see that in this age the good and the bad grow together. But the age to come is not so. It is not open to the wicked. This agrees with the statement of Christ in Luke 20:34-36 which shows that one has to be qualified to inherit the age to come and the new earth: one has to be “accounted worthy to obtain that aion or age. The reason is: it is only for believers. This passage shows that it is in this age that “the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father.” This is talking about the perfect incorruptible glorified state. The wicked on the other hand are “cast … into a furnace of fire” where “there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”

Here we see the final separation of the righteous and the wicked including the burning of those who practice lawlessness, and reward of those who belonged to Christ. In this context, “the end of the age” obviously refers to Christ’s glorious second coming. It cannot refer to the destruction of Jerusalem, as Preterists contend, since there was no separation of the righteous from the wicked, nor no final judgment for mankind then.

The same truth is also revealed by Christ in Matthew 13:47-50, in the parable of the net: “the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind: Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away. So shall it be at the end of the world (or aion or age): the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”

The bringing in of the “net” here relates to the angels gathering the righteous and the wicked together for judgment. This assignment is notably not executed until the net “was full.” We can see here that the wicked and righteous are drawn in at the same time. The Christ-rejecter is judged, sentenced and eternally separated from the elect of God at “the end of the age.” The outcome for the wicked drawn in by God’s great net in this parable is horrendous as they are pictured “wailing (klauthmos) and gnashing of teeth” or as it is rendered in the parable of the talents: “weeping (klauthmos) and gnashing of teeth.” This is the time of final judgment for the rebel against God.

 

[sovereigngrace]

The end of the age which the prophecies spoke of and which they asked about. It ended just when Jesus said it would end.



You are conflating two things. Jesus was not talking about the end of the world in Matt 24. He couldn't have been talking about that because he told them it would happen before "this generation" passed. He was answering their question about the end of the age. And the end of the last days as spoken of by prophecy ended right when he said it would.

You need to understand the meaning of the word genea:

1) fathered, birth, nativity
2) that which has been begotten, men of the same stock, a family
2a) the several ranks of natural descent, the successive members of a genealogy
2b) metaphorically a group of men very like each other in endowments, pursuits, character
2b1) especially in a bad sense, a perverse nation
3) the whole multitude of men living at the same time
4) an age (i.e. the time ordinarily occupied be each successive generation), a space of 30 - 33 years
Different translations and Bible scholars interpret it in different ways. Many good Bible students see it my way, many your way. I do not limit its meaning to a 40-year generation as Preterism must to sustain its school of thought. It can equally and fairly broadly describe a time-periods (a literal generation or age) or natural descendants (a group of men very like each other in endowments, pursuits or men of the same stock).

The root word for genea is genos (Strong’s 1085), which means race, kindred, offspring, family, stock, tribe, nation, i.e. nationality or descent from a particular people.

Acts 13:26 talks about “children of the stock [Gr. genos] of Abraham” and Philippians 3:5 those “of the stock [Gr. genos] of Israel.” The Bible is here speaking in a natural sense.

The root word of genos is ginomai (Strong’s 1096), which literally means to gen-erate.

Matthew 24:34 is telling us that the Jewish race would not pass away until all things are fulfilled. Israel is an ongoing generation.

 

[sovereigngrace]

But as to my point, that is irrelevant. The text indicates this---Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such---shall reign with him a thousand years.


How then, assuming the thousand years and little season happen in this age prior to the 2nd coming, and assuming people are saved during satan's little season, can they then have part in the first resurrection when it would be impossible to fulfill this part at that time---and shall reign with him a thousand years?

Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,


What reasonable person could or would argue, that once the thousand years expire, we are still in the thousand years period, regardless?

Does the reigning terminate in your position during Satan's little season?

 

[Al Touthentop]

You have skipped over so much Scripture that forbids your position that it is hard to know where to start.

No, you are taking two things and trying to make them the same. You think that certain terms are universal and they're not. Matt 24 is not about the day of judgement.

 

[Al Touthentop]

You need to understand the meaning of the word genea:

I understand it fine. So on the last day are you going to run to the hills of Jerusalem?

He's not talking about the Jewish "race." In Luke he tells them that those standing there would see the temple destroyed. He was talking about that generation - people who wouldn't yet die before they saw his prophecy fulfilled.

 

[mkgal1]

Again. I think you were on the right track here. Why Christians should reject Partial Preterism

Mark 13:14-20 says, “when ye (the disciples) shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains: And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house: And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment. But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter. For in those days shall be tribulation (thlipsis), such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be. And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.”

This can only refer to the wrath of God being poured out on Jerusalem that destroyed the existing socio-political/cultural/religious system of Judaism, which was an offence to God. This people were decimated. Their religious system was effectively brought to nought. Nothing before AD 70, or after it, could compare in regard to the extent of its demise. Luke 21:20-24 reinforces that we are looking at AD 70

.

There is no link in the quote for the post you were addressing. What post number was that quote from? I was thinking about trying to address that as well.

Sorry about that. I've edited that post to now include the link - here it is (post #10): Why Christians should reject Partial Preterism

 

[claninja]

The question is not IF. The question is what does this mean about the last day and what good this will do Satan? There is no IF question here if we accept the word as written. It clearly says that Satan is loosed after the thousand years.

By the same token this might call into question the amillenial view, it calls into serious question the premilinnial view as well. What enemies would Jesus have to fight if on the earth he revisits there is no Satan?

What if Satan is bound right now? What if this means that he's merely barred at the current time from using certain tools that were once at his disposal?

I view the "1,000" years as symbolic for the restoration of the Davidic monarchy through Christ's ministry death, resurrection, ascension, and sending of the Spirit.

Thus, while I agree with Amils that it is symbolic, I disagree that it refers to the time frame between the 1st coming and 2nd coming.

And I would completely disagree with the premil interpretation, as there are no other scriptures to support that belief.


Through Christ's ministry, death, resurrection, ascension, and sending of the Spirit, God fulfilled his promise to David that a descendant would forever sit on the throne (acts 2:31-32) and that David's fallen tent would be rebuilt (Acts 15:15-18). Thus, it is Christ who restored the Davidic monarchy so that David would never lack a man to sit on throne (jeremiah 33:17). And how many years were there from David to Christ? 1,000. Thus, I believe the "1,000" years are symbolic for Christ fulfilling the Davidic promises through his ministry, death, resurrection, ascension, and sending of the Spirit.

and what resulted from Christ fulfilling these promises?

1.) Satan bound (mark 3:27, revelation 20:1-2)
2.) Satan cast out to have a little season (John 12:31, revelation 12:12, revelation 20:3)
3.) The apostles judging Israel by the Spirit (matthew 19:28, revelation 20:4)
4.) Those in Christ parting in His resurrection (1st resurrection) by being born again to become a kingdom of priests to God (ephesians 2:5, 1 peter 2:9, revelation 20:4-6)

Revelation 20:1-6 is simply a parable about the work of Christ at his 1st coming, and what it resulted in for believers and satan.

 

[claninja]

Really? so all God’s people don't sin anymore 3.5 years after the cross, or did they obtained righteousness 3.5years after Jesus death? How about the Gentiles who haven't heard the good news after the end of your 70 weeks prophecy?
I will write down the 6 points that must fulfilled in your 70 weeks prophecy which have already ended;

1. Finish transgression
2. To put an end to sin
3. Atonement for wickedness
4. Everlasting Righteousness
5. Seal up prophecy
6. Annoint the Most Holy Place...

Have all God's people accomplished the above 6 points 3.5 years after the cross?

I don't believe that people themselves can: finish their own transgression, put an end to their sin, atone for their own wickedness, bring everlasting righteousness on themselves, fulfill the words of the law and prophets themselves that are actually about Christ, nor be responsible for anointing the most Holy (not holy place, which is not found in the original language).

If people are responsible for doing that themselves, then the gospel is not good news.

I believe all 6 points were fulfilled by Christ, thus because the church is one flesh with Christ, as a husband and wife are one flesh, then they are fulfilled for those in His body.

 

[sovereigngrace]

No, you are taking two things and trying to make them the same. You think that certain terms are universal and they're not. Matt 24 is not about the day of judgement.

Not so! Your failure to address these passages, and the clear climatic correlation between them, is proof that your position is untenable.

 

[DavidPT]

Does the reigning terminate in your position during Satan's little season?

Assuming Amil, let's say, for example, the thousand years are meaning from April 7, 33 AD to August 9, 2033 AD, And that satan's little season is meaning from August 10, 2033 AD to July 15, 2036 AD. In this example, to live and reign with Christ a thousand years would be meaning from April 7, 33 AD to August 9, 2033 AD. Anyone having part in the first resurrection would be reigning with Christ during April 7, 33 AD to August 9, 2033 AD, since that would be meaning the thousand years per this example.

If someone gets saved between August 10, 2033 AD to July 15, 2036 AD, how can they have part in the first resurrection if that means they need to live and reign with Christ between April 7, 33 AD to August 9, 2033 AD, except that that period of time will have been entirely in the past at this point?


Premil doesn't have a problem like this since Premil sees the first resurrection being a one time event that occurs around the beginning of the thousand years. To make the first resurrection to be meaning events that happens thousand of times at different times throughout the thousand years, is to then cause a conflict with satan's little season if this event is still happening during that time as well.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Assuming Amil, let's say, for example, the thousand years are meaning from April 7, 33 AD to August 9, 2033 AD, And that satan's little season is meaning from August 10, 2033 AD to July 15, 2036 AD. In this example, to live and reign with Christ a thousand years would be meaning from April 7, 33 AD to August 9, 2033 AD. Anyone having part in the first resurrection would be reigning with Christ during April 7, 33 AD to August 9, 2033 AD, since that would be meaning the thousand years per this example.

If someone gets saved between August 10, 2033 AD to July 15, 2036 AD, how can they have part in the first resurrection if that means they need to live and reign with Christ between April 7, 33 AD to August 9, 2033 AD, except that that period of time will have been entirely in the past at this point?


Premil doesn't have a problem like this since Premil sees the first resurrection being a one time event that occurs around the beginning of the thousand years. To make the first resurrection to be meaning events that happens thousand of times at different times throughout the thousand years, is to then cause a conflict with satan's little season if this event is still happening during that time as well.

I don't think you get the Amil understanding. Revelation 20:6 primarily emphasizes the great deliverance over eternal punishment that comes when a sinner comes to Christ and has their part in His death, burial and resurrection. This happens through our mystical union with Christ. The reigning is purely secondary, and a direct consequence to the main promise.

To have Christ is to have eternal life. That simple! Not to have Christ is not to have eternal life. Revelation 20:6 simply says, “Blessed and holy is he ‘that hath part’ (present active particle) in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power.”

When we get saved we become one with Jesus Christ spiritually. We identify with Christ and the victory He won over sin, death and the grave. As He died, was buried and conquered death, we also have our “part” in His success. Basically, we learn, he that overcometh (here-and-now) will be rewarded in the future. Please read the text carefully.

This is supported by Revelation 2:11, which similarly says: “He that overcometh (present active particle) shall not be hurt of the second death.”

Both relate to life and salvation not glorification. The word "overcometh" here is actually written in the present active particle meaning it relates to the here-and-now. It is an experience that is realized in life. When you have "eth" in the KJV it means it is a present reality.

· To be an overcomer is to be a Christian.
· To be a Christian is to have your “part” in Christ’s “first resurrection.”
· What is more, to be a Christian/overcome/have your “part” in Christ’s “first resurrection” is to escape “the second death” (eternal punishment).

Both relate to life and salvation not glorification.

Ephesians 2:5-6, which says, speaking of God, “Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.”

Through the first resurrection we enjoy heavenly authority by being “in Christ Jesus.” We belong to Christ and are therefore spiritually seated with Him today.

Ephesians 1:3 also supports, saying, “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ.”

The important aspect is what results from Christ's victory over the grave. When Christ came, justice demanded:

· Christ had to defeat sin – the source of man’s enslavement.
· He had to defeat Satan the instrument used to tempt man to sin.
· He had to defeat death (or the grave) the penalty of sin.
· He had to defeat hades (Abraham’s bosom) the then abode of the righteous dead.
· He had to defeat eternal punishment – the just reward for unrepentant sinners.

This meant that none of these had any further power over God’s people.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Assuming Amil, let's say, for example, the thousand years are meaning from April 7, 33 AD to August 9, 2033 AD, And that satan's little season is meaning from August 10, 2033 AD to July 15, 2036 AD. In this example, to live and reign with Christ a thousand years would be meaning from April 7, 33 AD to August 9, 2033 AD. Anyone having part in the first resurrection would be reigning with Christ during April 7, 33 AD to August 9, 2033 AD, since that would be meaning the thousand years per this example.

If someone gets saved between August 10, 2033 AD to July 15, 2036 AD, how can they have part in the first resurrection if that means they need to live and reign with Christ between April 7, 33 AD to August 9, 2033 AD, except that that period of time will have been entirely in the past at this point?


Premil doesn't have a problem like this since Premil sees the first resurrection being a one time event that occurs around the beginning of the thousand years. To make the first resurrection to be meaning events that happens thousand of times at different times throughout the thousand years, is to then cause a conflict with satan's little season if this event is still happening during that time as well.

You have the problem of the reigning only lasting 1000 years. Does it last longer in your opinion?

 

[jgr]

You need to understand the meaning of the word genea:

1) fathered, birth, nativity
2) that which has been begotten, men of the same stock, a family
2a) the several ranks of natural descent, the successive members of a genealogy
2b) metaphorically a group of men very like each other in endowments, pursuits, character
2b1) especially in a bad sense, a perverse nation
3) the whole multitude of men living at the same time
4) an age (i.e. the time ordinarily occupied be each successive generation), a space of 30 - 33 years
Different translations and Bible scholars interpret it in different ways. Many good Bible students see it my way, many your way. I do not limit its meaning to a 40-year generation as Preterism must to sustain its school of thought. It can equally and fairly broadly describe a time-periods (a literal generation or age) or natural descendants (a group of men very like each other in endowments, pursuits or men of the same stock).

The root word for genea is genos (Strong’s 1085), which means race, kindred, offspring, family, stock, tribe, nation, i.e. nationality or descent from a particular people.

Acts 13:26 talks about “children of the stock [Gr. genos] of Abraham” and Philippians 3:5 those “of the stock [Gr. genos] of Israel.” The Bible is here speaking in a natural sense.

The root word of genos is ginomai (Strong’s 1096), which literally means to gen-erate.

Matthew 24:34 is telling us that the Jewish race would not pass away until all things are fulfilled. Israel is an ongoing generation.

Matthew 24:34 Greek
"3. the whole multitude of men living at the same time: Matthew 24:34; Mark 13:30;"

 

[DavidPT]

You have the problem of the reigning only lasting 1000 years. Does it last longer in your opinion?

I'm not certain how all other Premils might reason this, but I tend to reason it is like such. During the thousand years saints are co ruling with Christ over the earth with a rod of iron. When satan is loosed, the ruling with a rod of iron period ceases in order to test those that have been ruled over during the thousand years. So it's not that saints and Christ quit reigning altogether, it's that they quit reigning in this particular sense.

Per Amil, such as the position you hold, the first resurrection causes conflicts with satan's little season if the first resurrection is an ongoing event rather than a one time event, and that it is still ongoing after the thousand years expire. How can anyone possibly have part in the first resurrection, after the thousand years, if to have part in the first resurrection means to live and reign with Christ during the thousand years prior to satan being loosed a little season?

 

[sovereigngrace]

I understand it fine. So on the last day are you going to run to the hills of Jerusalem?

He's not talking about the Jewish "race." In Luke he tells them that those standing there would see the temple destroyed. He was talking about that generation - people who wouldn't yet die before they saw his prophecy fulfilled.

The disciples asked two questions in Matthew 24 as they stood in front of the still-standing temple complex.

Matthew 24:3 records:

1. “When shall these things be? (speaking about the destruction of the temple/city)”
2. “What shall be the sign of thy coming (parousia), and of the end (or sunteleías meaning completion, or consummation) of the world (aion)?”

Christ addressed both questions and both eras in chapter 24. However, because of the intermingling of His response, many Bible students suffer great confusion in identifying what aspect of the teaching relates to AD 70 and what relates to the Second Coming. Notwithstanding, there is much detail about the days that precede His return.

The word telos, used in 1 Corinthians 1:7-8 and 15:24, is also found in the above passage being coupled to, and prefixed with, the popular Greek word sun (Strong’s 4862) – denoting union and togetherness. The word carries the overall meaning of the entire end.

Premils and Preterists do not believe that “the end” refers to the actual end. The New Testament word from which we get our phrase “the end” is the Greek word telos which refers to the point aimed at as a limit, i.e. the conclusion of an act or state. It refers to the completion. It is the termination point of a thing.

When Scripture simply talks about “the beginning” without any other additional words or contextual reason to identify it with a specific event, then theologians universally agree it is talking about “the beginning” of time/this age/creation. Whilst all sound theologians agree on this, many are inconsistent when it comes to “the end.” The reason probably is because it cuts across a lot of end-time theology they have been taught. However, both should be treated similarly.

Unless Scripture specifically identifies “the end” with a particular event or matter like “the end of barley harvest” (Ruth 2:23) “the end of the sabbath” (Matt 28:1), “the end of the year” (2 Chron 24:23), “the end of the rod” (1 Sam 14:27), or “the end of the commandment” (1 Tim 1:5), etc, etc, then we should understand it as the end of the world (which is the end of the age).

Jesus response to His disciples in Matthew 24:6 and 13-14 is notable: “ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end (or télos) is not yet ... But he that shall endure unto the end (or télos), the same shall be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end (or télos) come.”

“The end of the age” is normally described as “the end.” Those that endure to the end are promised a glorious reward. The true child of God will persevere to the end because that is his nature. The false professor will not.

If we are to be consistent, if we are to take a word literally, plainly and straightforwardly in its context, then we should take the word “end” to mean the end. 1 Peter 4:7 predicts “the end of all things is at hand.” This is a pretty substantive, unambiguous and climactic statement. Few, if any, would argue that this was not talking about the Second Coming. But few stop to consider the enormity and finality of this Coming.

Jesus continues His response to the disciples’ question reference His coming in Matthew 24:35-44: “Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming (parousia) of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming (parousia) of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.”

The removal of the current heaven and earth is here connected to the coming of the Lord. After telling us that “heaven and earth shall pass away” Jesus immediately tells us: “of that day and hour knoweth no man.” This final day that is approaching is coming unexpectedly. This fits in with the “thief in the night” scenario found elsewhere in Scripture. It would seem to confirm that the day that Christ returns is the day when the current corrupt natural order (both the creature and creation) is gloriously changed. The wicked and all corruption are destroyed when Jesus comes. The Lord here identifies the passing away of “heaven and earth” with “the coming of the Son of man.”

Christ describes this day as an unanticipated day for many – one that will find many unprepared. For those who are playing at religion they will be caught on. They will face the same punishment as the “hypocrite” when He comes: “there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” The wicked are an all-inclusive group; they include every Christ-rejecter – from the religious professors to the outright profane hypocrites. They will all be caught in the destruction when they are left behind and the “heaven and earth ... pass away.”

 

[sovereigngrace]

I understand it fine. So on the last day are you going to run to the hills of Jerusalem?

He's not talking about the Jewish "race." In Luke he tells them that those standing there would see the temple destroyed. He was talking about that generation - people who wouldn't yet die before they saw his prophecy fulfilled.

I agree that the great tribulation was historic. But Preterists make the same mistake as Futurists with Matthew 24, and parallel passages. To sustain their theory they have to (1) ignore the two distinct questions the disciples asked re two distinct events at the beginning of Matthew 24, (2) merge the 2 distinct events; (3) ignore the whole overall context of Matthew 23 & 24.