Daniel's 70th week

[claninja]

What reasonable person could or would argue, that once the thousand years expire, we are still in the thousand years period, regardless?

This is a reasonable argument against the traditional Amil position on the "1,000" years. IF the "1,000" years are representative of the time from the cross until the 2nd coming, how can satan be loosed AFTER the 1,000 years?

 

[Al Touthentop]

This is a reasonable argument against the traditional Amil position on the "1,000" years. IF the "1,000" years are representative of the time from the cross until the 2nd coming, how can satan be loosed AFTER the 1,000 years?

The question is not IF. The question is what does this mean about the last day and what good this will do Satan? There is no IF question here if we accept the word as written. It clearly says that Satan is loosed after the thousand years.

By the same token this might call into question the amillenial view, it calls into serious question the premilinnial view as well. What enemies would Jesus have to fight if on the earth he revisits there is no Satan?

What if Satan is bound right now? What if this means that he's merely barred at the current time from using certain tools that were once at his disposal?

 

[DavidPT]

This is figurative. But what it means exactly is unclear. This could mean on the day of Judgement.

What does the day of judgment mean to you then? A single day, or an era of time? Clearly satan's little season is not meaning a single day, but is meaning an era of time.

 

[Al Touthentop]

What does the day of judgment mean to you then? A single day, or an era of time? Clearly satan's little season is not meaning a single day, but is meaning an era of time.

Really? Clearly? I don't think it's totally clear at all. The whole book is figurative. It was 'signified by his angel' and we do ourselves a disservice to take it so literally. There are places where John gives the hints at decoding the message and still people go crazy.

Take the 'mark of the beast' for instance. The number of the beast, John says, is the 'name of a man' when one 'calculates' it correctly. Given the other instruction, that the main thrust of the prophecy was to foretell of things that would 'shortly come to pass,' we can be pretty certain that most of the stuff prophesied in Revelation has already taken place.

 

[DavidPT]

Really? Clearly? I don't think it's totally clear at all. The whole book is figurative. It was 'signified by his angel' and we do ourselves a disservice to take it so literally. There are places where John gives the hints at decoding the message and still people go crazy.

Take the 'mark of the beast' for instance. The number of the beast, John says, is the 'name of a man' when one 'calculates' it correctly. Given the other instruction, that the main thrust of the prophecy was to foretell of things that would 'shortly come to pass,' we can be pretty certain that most of the stuff prophesied in Revelation has already taken place.

Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.


It seems pretty silly that satan, in a single day, could manage to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. Surely that would involve some time to first deceive them, then once they are deceived, to then gather them together to battle.

 

[DavidPT]

What if Satan is bound right now?

NM

 

[DavidPT]

What if Satan is bound right now? What if this means that he's merely barred at the current time from using certain tools that were once at his disposal?

There is no martyrdom of saints during the thousand years, nor after the thousand years. The martyrdom of saints only takes place prior to the beginning of the thousand years. And since the martyrdom of saints has been ongoing for the past 2000 years, we therefore can't be in the thousand years period, since that would indicate that martyrdom of the saints take place during the thousand years.


that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands(Revelation 20:4)

This appears to be speaking in past tense, and not present and or future tense. Therefore telling us that the martyrdom of saints is meaning prior to the thousand years.

 

[Douggg]

The abomination of desolation, I believe, was Jewish 'priests' offering sacrifices in the temple who thought they were doing God's work but were in fact repudiating Christ's sacrifice. They were no longer doing God's works but were an abomination. But also, as Josephus relates, the Sicarii were murdering people in the holiest part of the temple.

Al, what do you think about the abomination of desolaton in Daniel 11:31 ?

30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.

31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

 

[pasifika]

NT scripture is clear that all 6 points of Daniel 9:24 are fulfilled in God's people as a result of the cross

Really? so all God’s people don't sin anymore 3.5 years after the cross, or did they obtained righteousness 3.5years after Jesus death? How about the Gentiles who haven't heard the good news after the end of your 70 weeks prophecy?
I will write down the 6 points that must fulfilled in your 70 weeks prophecy which have already ended;

1. Finish transgression
2. To put an end to sin
3. Atonement for wickedness
4. Everlasting Righteousness
5. Seal up prophecy
6. Annoint the Most Holy Place...

Have all God's people accomplished the above 6 points 3.5 years after the cross?

 

[mkgal1]

Where in Scripture does it say that "there was an end of the Jewish age"? Where does it even mention a "Jewish age"? It simply doesn't exist.

"It doesn't exist"? Who were the people in the assembly that God brought out of Egypt? Who was King David - if not "Jewish"? Who were "Daniel's people" that this confirmed covenant was relative to? The entire story of the Bible is about the ancient Jewish age - and how God became their King (and High Priest) - in the flesh - as was their desire (and how the other nations were grafted in). He was born of the Jews (at the predicted time). He rejected their carnal view of His kingdom.....but His faithful remnant was the seed to our faith and early church beginning. How can a person (a Christian) dismiss all that by saying (referring to the Jewish age) - "it simply doesn't exist"? We shouldn't need a specific phrase to inform us of all this - the entire Bible speaks of it in some way.

CHRIST, ISRAEL AND THE FALL OF JERUSALEM

 

[mkgal1]

Really? so all God’s people don't sin anymore

Do you not believe YOUR sins are forgiven? That's not to mean you don't sin any longer (or that you ought to deliberately continue to sin - as Paul had written as recorded in Romans 6:15).

 

[DavidPT]

1. Finish transgression
   

One of my arguments have been, to finish the transgression also involves the holy city, which I would think is meaning Jerusalem. How does it make sense that the 70 weeks determined upon Jerusalem are finished, then this same Jerusalem is attacked and destroyed some 30 to 40 years later?

 

[pasifika]

Do you not believe YOUR sins are forgiven? That's not to mean you don't sin any longer (or that you ought to deliberately continue to sin - as Paul had written as recorded in Romans 6:15).

Hello, yes I believe God forgiven the sins I confessed and believe that He has forgiven it. But one of those 6 points in Daniel 9:24 must be accomplished within the 70 weeks prophecy...and one of the point is To Put an End to Sin, well, sin is still in this world Paul talk about that in most of his writing ie Romans etc...But Jesus done on the cross is to break the Power of Sin, so the people of God will NOT CONTINUE in their sin. BUT Sin will eventually put to end when He comes back to reign...

 

[mkgal1]

Hello, yes I believe God forgiven the sins I confessed

Only the ones you confessed? And did this forgiveness come AFTER your confession - or prior to your confession(s)?

 

[pasifika]

One of my arguments have been, to finish the transgression also involves the holy city, which I would think is meaning Jerusalem. How does it make sense that the 70 weeks determined upon Jerusalem are finished, then this same Jerusalem is attacked and destroyed some 30 to 40 years later?

Yes, agree Jerusalem is their holy city....destroyed way after the 70 weeks prophecy according to those who believe that this prophecy is already fulfilled 3.5 years after cross..

 

[mkgal1]

But one of those 6 points in Daniel 9:24 must be accomplished within the 70 weeks prophecy...and one of the point is To Put an End to Sin, well, sin is still in this world

Sin is......or "evil" and destruction is in this world? Because Jesus (in my belief) FORGAVE the sin of this world.....so if God has forgiven sin....then who is judging? "Sin" and "lawlessness" are based on God's view - not ours.

 

[pasifika]

Only the ones you confessed? And did this forgiveness come AFTER your confession - or prior to your confession(s)?

How can God forgive your sins if you don't confess it first?

 

[pasifika]

Sin is......or "evil" and destruction is in this world? Because Jesus (in my belief) FORGAVE the sin of this world.....so if God has forgiven sin....then who is judging? "Sin" and "lawlessness" are based on God's view - not ours.

So why is still Judgement to come if God forgave all sins? Unless you don't believe in Judgement of the wicked...

 

[mkgal1]

How can God forgive your sins if you don't confess it first?

I realize that's counter to a lot of mainstream Christian teaching - but I believe He forgave on the Cross (and I wasn't confessing at that time). I believe forgiveness is a two part process. He (figuratively) held out His hand and offered forgiveness......actual reconciliation and relationship is when we accept His forgiveness.......but the offer (the free gift) is being offered first.

Romans 5:8 ~ But God proves His love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.​

 

[mkgal1]

So why is still Judgement to come if God forgave all sins? Unless you don't believe in Judgement of the wicked...

I do believe the "Day of the Lord" is fulfilled (in the first century)......but also believe that the sanctification applies to everyone (we ALL have "rough edges" to be polished).


Jesus, who came "to save his people from their sins", accomplished this when He "put away sin by the sacrifice of himself" (Mt. 1:21; Heb. 9:26). "It is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins... But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever...has perfected for ever them that are sanctified...And their sins... remember no more" (Heb. 10:4-11). The old system of sacrifices could never make an end of sins, but Christ—by the sacrifice of himself—did make an end of sins, even as the prophecy had said.

John announced him as "the Lamb of God, which takes away the sins of the world" (John 1:29). "Christ died for our sins" (1 Cor. 15:3). He "bare our sins in his own body on the tree" (l Peter 2:24) and "has once suffered for sins" (3:18). "He was manifested to take away our sins" (l John 3:5). This "end of sins" was accomplished at Calvary.

In my belief......Scripture seems to be pointing to the fact that at Calvary the eternal sacrifice for sin was made, so that any and all—past, present, or future —who will be forgiven of sins will be forgiven because our Lord' s death almost 2,000 years ago made an "end of sins". That was the ONLY and LAST sacrifice that could "put away sin" for good.