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Featured Daniel 2:44 The Kingdom That Breaks All Other Kingdoms

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by swainkas, Nov 17, 2020.

  1. swainkas

    swainkas Swainson, author of Heresy Supporter

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    And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever.
    Daniel 2:44
    Here in Daniel we have expectations set high. In verses 36 through 43 Daniel describes a dream of King Nebuchadnezzar, and then gives an interpretation of it. The interpretation describes the Babylonian Empire, the Medo-Persian and Greek Empires, and then finally ends with the Roman Empire. After describing these empires, he gives this grand 44th verse, which indicates that all of these kingdoms will be broken into pieces and be consumed by another kingdom, a divine kingdom that shall stand forever.

    If the interpretation of current Bible scholars is correct and if the final empire of the interpretation is indeed the Roman Empire, then their expectation of a Second Coming on behalf of Jesus is in jeopardy in regard to this verse. For we see here that the verse says, “and in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom.” The verse does not say “after” the days, but “in” the days of these kings shall the God of Heaven set up a kingdom.

    This may be another scripture that helped create a high pitch of excitement in the first century when it came to Messianic expectations. For the coming of the Messiah would have initiated the coming of this divine kingdom, in the eyes of the Jews. Though Jews did not accept Jesus as a Messiah, His coming at the time could be a fulfillment of this Daniel prophecy, because the kingdom He has set up has indeed spread throughout the earth, and has infiltrated every government on planet Earth with followers, starting with the Roman Empire. And as such, Jesus’ kingdom was officially established “in the days of these kings,” specifically the Roman Empire, the final empire of Nebuchadnezzar’s statue.

    This is another verse that is very time-specific with respect to the kingdom promised to the Jews. The Roman Empire, at the latest, died out about the fifth century. Since the time of Jesus in the first century, there has been no Messiah figure who has captured the hearts and minds of people all over the earth, except possibly Mohammad, but he is clearly no Jewish Messiah. Jesus was Jewish, and because of that, and the fact that He was of the line of King David (Matthew 1:1-16), He can at least be considered as a Jewish Messianic figure. Name another well-known Jewish Messianic figure after the first century but before the fifth century, and we can start to talk about the fulfillment of the Daniel prophecy in somebody else besides Jesus of Nazareth. Because there is none, we leave this verse as yet another one pointing directly to Jesus as the Christ of the Jews and, as this verse points out, something much more than a Christ solely to the Jews, because His kingdom was to permeate the entire world, which it has.

    For right now, one in every three people professes to be a Christian. These one in three are not located in only a few countries on planet Earth; they are spread out throughout all the nations of the earth. These various people throughout time are members of this earthly kingdom, which has broken to pieces the Roman Empire, and any other empire, even unto our day.
     
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  2. Brian Mcnamee

    Brian Mcnamee Well-Known Member

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    Hi in a sense the kingdom has come but Dan 2 is certainly future. The spiritual kingdom as being born again is part of what you saw in Jesus day. The prophecies about the kingdom that comes and covers the earth and has no end are many and to understand what and when it happens if you look at all the verses on this subject you will see a clear before and after picture of the earth, Israel on so many levels when the kingdom comes it is a night and day difference that is permanent until the millennium is over.
    Starting in Dan 2 The stone cut without hands descends from heaven and destroys the image of mans kingdom leaving no trace of them and this stone is a mountain that covers the earth and has no end. We still see mans kingdoms and have always seen them and they have not been ground to powder and blown away. This kingdom that covers the earth and has no end can only have one beginning and in Dan 7 we see that the kingdom that comes and covers the earth and has no end arrives when a pompous ruler comes on the seen and he is persecuting the saints for a time times and half a time. He is destroyed and his body given to the flame and one like the son of man who is before the ancient of days is given the kingdom that covers the earth and has no end. This looks more like it starts at the 2nd coming of Jesus. Look to Rev 13 and we see the beast who's body is also given to the flame gaining dominion over every tribe tongue kindred and nation. Now John wrote this prophecy as things still to come and this beast also had 42 months to rule and persecute the saints just like the guy in Dan 7. In Rev the angels sing out the kingdoms of this earth have become the kingdoms of the LORD and his Christ and He shall reign forever. This transfer is seen in many passages taking place at the battle of Armageddon. Zech 14 shows this day in great detail. Jerusalem is being overrun and half the city is taken captive. The LORD comes with His saints and melts the armies invading. The Mt of Olives splits in two forming a river that flows two directions one of them east and this river flows year round. In that day the LORD is king over all the earth. In that day they will say the LORD is one. From that time on the nations which are left must come keep the feast of Tabernacles or they get no rain and they also must worship the king. Now Jesus is king and they now He and the Father are one as the LORD is king and the LORD is one is Israel confessing Jesus is LORD. That river cannot be a metaphor as in Ezekiel 47 when this river is flowing it heals the dead sea and the fishing there is going to be excellent The 12 tribes of Israel are given their inheritance by lot when that river is flowing and the kingdom established. This is enough for now but this barely touches on the topic.
     
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  3. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    Exactly. It amazes me that, even with this precision of timing and fulfillment.....people that identify as Christians still deny the fulfillment of this.

    Christ Jesus is clearly the rock that crushed all other kingdoms....Jesus, Himself, even said as much:

    Matthew 21:42-45
    Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:

    ‘The stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone. This is from the Lord, and it is marvelous in our eyes’?
    43Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit. 44He who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces, but he on whom it falls will be crushed.l45When the chief priests and Pharisees heard His parables, they knew that Jesus was speaking about them.
     
  4. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    It's a very common interpretation that the Roman Empire was the fourth kingdom.....but I'm thinking it was actually Zealot-led Israel that was that fourth kingdom. Adam Maarschalk has written a compelling argument in favor of that, here:

    "Daniel 2: Babylon, Medo-Persia, and Greece/Macedonia – Pursuing Truth" Daniel 2: Babylon, Medo-Persia, and Greece/Macedonia
     
  5. grafted branch

    grafted branch Member Supporter

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    Thanks for that very informative link. I have thought for some time that there were two abominations of desolation but had trouble understanding Daniel 11:36-45; many of the commentaries see a transitional change in either verse 33 or 36. When I saw his commentary it really made sense, I’m put it in my file for future reference.
     
  6. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    Some may think these videos are cheesy, just due to the drawings, but I personally believe they're packed with good theology (and are easy to follow):

    The entire outline of the book of Daniel:

     
  7. swainkas

    swainkas Swainson, author of Heresy Supporter

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    Thanks. The reference was helpful and so was the video outline.
     
  8. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Why would the current interpretation of Bible scholars of the futurist view be in jeopardy? The ten kings and the little horn are time of the end. no jeopardy to the correctness of the futurist view.

    I think you need to clarify what you mean by "current Bible scholars".
     
  9. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Daniel 2 is not a process. In the days of the ten kings, Jesus will return, and will establish the Kingdom of God as the ruling kingdom over all kingdoms on the earth, as Jesus will rule the nations with a rod of iron during the millennium.

    That's the plan. And it is in the days of ten end times kings that the plan will be fuflilled in the days when the 7th angel sounds.

    Revelation 10:6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:

    7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2020
  10. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Adam Maarschalk - clueless. The abomination of desolation will be image of the beast that comes to life and speaks - because Satan will be incarnating the image. The image will be brought to ashes, exposing Satan on the temple mount, as part of the prophesied end of Satan being a terror nor more in Ezekiel 28:16-19.

    Nothing in man's history even comes close to what is going to happen when the six seal event takes place and Jesus returning to this earth.

    upload_2020-11-19_1-54-9.jpeg
     
  11. swainkas

    swainkas Swainson, author of Heresy Supporter

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    All I'm trying to point out is that Jesus already reigns supreme in the hearts and lives of every Christian in every kingdom/nation on planet earth. Those not ruled by Him are already in outer darkness, i.e., damned.

    You are My friends if you do what I command you. - John 15:14 NASB​
     
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  12. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    History reveals the identities of the ten kings and little horn.

    Futurism reveals the fantasies of interpretation by imagination.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2020
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  13. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    The little horn's stoppage of the daily sacrifice and transgression of desolation is said by Gabriel to be time of the end right in the text.
     
  14. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    It should be the "one hour" 10 kings. Not really "the days of" the 10 kingdoms. That time has been for decades now.
     
  15. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Gabriel does not appear in Daniel 7.
     
  16. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    The little horn's stoppage of the daily sacrifice and the transgression of desolation is in Daniel 8, stated by Gabriel to be time of the end right in the text.
     
  17. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    It is not 10 kingdoms. The ten kings who rule with the beast one hour, a figure of speech to represent the 42 months which they have their crowns in Revelation 13 - give their kingdom (singular) to him.


    Revelation 17:17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.




    The 7th angel sounds just past the mid-point of the 7 years. It is the days of 7th angel that mystery of God which he declared to the prophets shall be finished.

    I show the 7th angel sounds in the middle part of my chart below.



    upload_2020-11-19_12-4-28.jpeg
     
  18. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The ten horns and associated little horn are in Daniel 7.
     
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