Dangit! Important question!

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ShannonMcCatholic

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http://www.newadvent.org/summa/2088.htm
In like manner it may happen, on the part of the agent, that a sin generically mortal because venial, by reason of the act being imperfect, i.e. not deliberated by reason, which is the proper principle of an evil act, as we have said above in reference to sudden movements of unbelief.

Seems to me that Aquinas is saying that one needs to exercise the use of reason to commit mortal sin...
 
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BAFRIEND

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What you quoted there is intentionally misleading, because you are presupposing that accidentally using the Lord's name in vain is a mortal sin--which it is not. Just because something is grave matter- doe not mean that it is a mortal sin. That quoted portion refers to someone in a state of mortal sin. Do you just not believe that? Do you just not believe that some sins are grave matter but not mortal?

If someone hasn't sinned with deliberate intention and consent--then the Penitential Rite at Mass forgives sin, as well as the reception of the Eucharist Itself.

That's just like you- make claims about what someone teaches and instructs, but then when challenged, you tell the other person to go find it themselves. Either you know that Aquinas and/or Augustine said something contrary, and can actually provide a quote to illustrate such a fact, or you don't really know and ought not add it as something trying to get others to agree with your (flawed) point of view.

I am not intentionally misleading anyone with anything, sorry.

My point of view is not flawed, if you commit sin through habit with very little aforethought that does not equate to not being deliberate as I think the OP expressed as being his reason for having a question of conscience.

I know what Aquinas and Augustine stated and have quotes it at my fingertips- that does not mean I am going to provide you with the quote you can find in a matter of minutes yourself by doing a Google search.
 
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ShannonMcCatholic

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Okay--so you are going to fail to instruct the ignorant...beacuse...???

He did after after thought--I think perhaps you mean forethought--even though you'd be wrong. YOu have to knowingly and deliberately consent to a sin for it to be mortal. As Aquinas writes- a sin can't be mortal which is "not deliberated by reason".

The quote you posted there- is talking about being in a state of mortal sin--and that a prefect act of contrition and a resolve to confess at the first oppotunrity--is enough for us to be forgiven our motal sins--but not sufficient that we might receive communion (though I think there are even extreme exceptions to that) without sacramental confession. And that's a great thing to know--because it shows us that our sins are forgiven outside of confession!

But it does not indicate that someone who has committed venial sin needs to stay away from confession.

The OP ASKS a question...which indicates that he is really unsure about his conscience. Questions usually mean that a person doesn't know.
 
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BAFRIEND

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The OP ASKS a question...which indicates that he is really unsure about his conscience. Questions usually mean that a person doesn't know.

Okay, then answer my question. If a person knows that an act is sinful, but continues to do it without thought out of habit- does that mean there is no intent ? This is what Aquinas would call a remnant.
 
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Woodsy

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I'm trying to do that with swearing. I don't like swearing but when I get hurt or something bad happens the words just come. So I'm trying to replace the words with amusing ones - "fiddlesticks", "bugger all", "oh, bother", "great balls of fire", "good grief", etc.

Not to nitpick or anything, but is "bugger all" really so innocuous? I mean, buggery or buggering something is not exactly... uh, well, you know... :o
 
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ShannonMcCatholic

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Okay, then answer my question. If a person knows that an act is sinful, but continues to do it without thought out of habit- does that mean there is no intent ? This is what Aquinas would call a remnant.
It means that there is a lack of freedom--a lack of deliberate consent.


Three different aspects to mortal sin BA:
1. grave matter
2. full knowledge
3. full freedom

Someone can have full knowledge of an acts sinfulnes, and still not have full freedom.
 
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benedictaoo

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Consciousness of MORTAL sin..BA. Holy Communion itself remits venial sin. The Church has never taught that venial sin should keep us from Holy Communion.

Accidentally using the Lord's Name in vain--isn't mortal sin. You can't accidentally commit mortal sin--you have to fully and deliberately consent.

and it being a habit lessens the culpability.

Unless Domi fully intended to ask God to dang the thing to hell, then it was a venial sin.

and Lord have Mercy on me if I am supposed to be staying away from Communion becuase of ideal words that I have a habit of not only saying but at times, screaming to blow off steam.

If this were the case, I would never be able to receive Communion at all.

I do confess these things but I do not stay away from Communion in between becuase they are a habit and habitual venial sins need Communion as well as confession.

I tell you one time though, trying to assemble a high chair I cussed so bad, I had to confess.
 
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Gwendolyn

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Not to nitpick or anything, but is "bugger all" really so innocuous? I mean, buggery or buggering something is not exactly... uh, well, you know... :o

Oh, it means something unsavoury?

This is another case of me picking something out of movies and finding it amusing. I got it from Jack Sparrow.. "Oh bugger."

I don't know what else it means.

Either way, you understood the principle.
 
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ShannonMcCatholic

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Oh, it means something unsavoury?

This is another case of me picking something out of movies and finding it amusing. I got it from Jack Sparrow.. "Oh bugger."

I don't know what else it means.

Either way, you understood the principle.

It means anal sex, basically. Just as an FYI....not in America-but in Britain---so I don't know where that leaves Canada LOL!
 
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JimR-OCDS

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BAFRIEND;

Are you stating the OP does not know if blasphemy is mortal or not ?

Blasphemy is a contempt against God, or placing oneself equal to God. The OP didn't have this in mind when he reacted to a situation where he use an in appropriate phrase. Don't make this bigger than it was.


He said it slipped out and he does not know why-

Which negates it being a mortal sin

I state he should make it a matter of conscience and he says his conscience tell him not to receive.

Being in the state mortal sin is the only reason why he should not receive, if he feels called.

You say that he should receive anyway as it is only venial sin, are you sure about that ?

If he feels God is calling him to receive, he should, unless he was in mortal sin, which has been clarified umpteen time so far, that he was not.

If my conscience tells me not to receive and I do it anyway, that is only venial ?

It may be a conscience improperly formed and in a state of scrupulosity. Sure don't receive, but get yourself straightened out. Staying away from the grace that is received in the sacrament unnecessarily, is probably demoniacally influenced.

I don't think it is venial so much as subjective.

If its subjective, then its not a mortal sin. If it were mortal sin, there would be no doubt about it.

Jim
 
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Gwendolyn

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It means anal sex, basically. Just as an FYI....not in America-but in Britain---so I don't know where that leaves Canada LOL!

WHAT

WHY WOULD DISNEY ALLOW JACK SPARROW TO SAY THAT

I am going to stop using that expression posthaste. I feel bad.

I use "oh, bother" more often than not, though ;) Winnie the Pooh.
 
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ShannonMcCatholic

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LOL! I make up complete nonsense words...akin to Bill Cosby's "Gunky!". I say things like "Shoobahlakca!" "Oh shwanampi!" I also resort to signing my frustrations and stuff...making up songs "You are driving me crazy! You will not do what I am asking! If we lived in medieval times, I'd call the king's henchman to string you up on the rrrrack!" (Have I mentioned that I'm a little crazy?"

I also just swear...but I'm okay with that, believe it to be a matter of appropriateness for the situation and setting...just like it'd be inappropriate to walk around talking about differential caluclus in the grocery store, so, too there's a time and place for all words.

Taking the Lord's Name in vain is just not a habit for me--though it was when I was a wee thing.
 
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JoabAnias

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Wow, I can't believe I woke up to find my little question had turned into a six page thread! I want to express to everyone who has participated the fact that I appreciate every post in this thread. I especially appreciate the fact that conflicting points of view have been aired.
For context:
Since my conversion, I have never maintained a regular schedule of confession and communion. I vowed to change that this Lent.
Up until now, I went to confession intermittently and so I would confess everything that came to mind. Easy.
But now I'm having to actually ascertain which of my sins are mortal and which venial. And I'm used to having a sizable list of sins to confess - so I'm unused to the feeling of "Oh, I have nothing to confess." And so I feel that I must be leaving something out, and if I'm leaving something out, then I am at risk of damnation!
Yes, I can be what is called in secular psychology "anal," and I can tend toward the Pharisaical when it comes to watching my own behavior and judging myself. Given the opportunity, I could easily tend toward scrupulosity.
Over the last year or so, my attendance at Church has been spotty and my walk with Christ has been terribly deficient, and one symptom has been that my mouth has been a bit foul. Still tame compared to my friends and most movies, but fouler than I'd like. So Lent has meant the beginning of my effort to tame that tongue.
I have felt so encouraged that I have been making it to regular confession but it's been crushing to be unable to receive communion despite this.

Oh, and I'm already driving 20 minutes out of the way because I found a great Church in another neighborhood that offers more frequent confession and other stuff that is great.

Don't trust "feelings" brother. They can deceive us from receiving Jesus because of wrong guilt or from getting to confession because of lack of contrition. We need to pray for wisdom, knowlege and discernment.

Make a "choice" for Jesus. Try to leave feelings aside if you can because they so often cloud our judgement.

There is a learning curve to knowing what is and isn't mortal or venial sin. Feelings can say the opposite thing to us. The CCC is the infallible Magisterial teaching of the Church. You can take it to the bank as truth and whole heartedly put your faith in what it says. Remember all venial sins are good to confess but they do not exclude us from communion and study of the Church defined requirements for a sin to be mortal will serve you well.

You see that slacking off has hardened your speech. Same thing happens to me and its how I know its time for me to get to confession even if I haven't fallen mortally. Its preventative maintenance for the soul (along with the Eucharist) that supplies the grace I need to be preserved from mortal sin. I don't have to miss communion of those things venial though. That you recognize this hardening is wonderful in a way because you will also see how turning to Jesus will have the opposite affect and soften your heart as well.

Finding the right balance for you will supply you with what your lacking and you will see it turn around. It will take finding that right balance for you. And at times this balance can change. Self assessment is important. Try getting your hands on some various (approved) exam of conscience booklets, they can be a great help as well.

The precept of the Church is annual confession but that is a goal. One I cannot meet.

I must go at least every 5-6 weeks. Knowing myself as I do, If I waited for the precept to come around I would have already fallen apostate and or into mortal sin and may not even be attending Church any more. I have gone this route twice and the road back is as long as the one that took me away.

We are called out of the world as a people of prayer. I recall reading somewhere that Pope John Paul II would go to confession weekly at times. ;) There is always something to confess. Yet at each confession, even what we have forgotten to confess is absolved if were not purposely omitting it. I some times make a list when I prepare for confession of things that have weighed on my mind since the last time I went. This is where the use of exams of consciences are of great help to me in order to recall those things. I do this not out of scruple but so I don't forget and can make as good a confession as possible but after those things are absolved I get rid of the list because those things are blotted out and remembered by the Lord no more. Some people burn their lists in effigy.

Lastly, there is room for opposing view points but there is only one truth and one balance for you personally.

All the best. Dagnabit ;) ^_^
 
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BAFRIEND

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BAFRIEND;



Blasphemy is a contempt against God, or placing oneself equal to God. The OP didn't have this in mind when he reacted to a situation where he use an in appropriate phrase. Don't make this bigger than it was.




Which negates it being a mortal sin



Being in the state mortal sin is the only reason why he should not receive, if he feels called.



If he feels God is calling him to receive, he should, unless he was in mortal sin, which has been clarified umpteen time so far, that he was not.



It may be a conscience improperly formed and in a state of scrupulosity. Sure don't receive, but get yourself straightened out. Staying away from the grace that is received in the sacrament unnecessarily, is probably demoniacally influenced.



If its subjective, then its not a mortal sin. If it were mortal sin, there would be no doubt about it.

Jim

I believe what the OP stated was that he has slipped through life and this deed became habitual and he is trying to overcome it. To state that the orgins of his not wanting to receive communion due to conscience for this habit is demonic is outrageous.
 
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JoabAnias

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WHAT

WHY WOULD DISNEY ALLOW JACK SPARROW TO SAY THAT

I am going to stop using that expression posthaste. I feel bad.

I use "oh, bother" more often than not, though ;) Winnie the Pooh.

I always liked Yabba dabba doo, or Rott-roe. :D
 
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JoabAnias

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I believe what the OP stated was that he has slipped through life and this deed became habitual and he is trying to overcome it. To state that the orgins of his not wanting to receive communion due to conscience for this habit is demonic is outrageous.
So far you have construed the OP as saying "twice by accident" to mean persistent and now habitual.

Please try to understand fully what it means to have an overly scrupulous conscience before rationalizing it away as normal so that you have an idea of what people are saying here.

An overly scrupulous conscience would be one that finds sin where there is none or finds a venial sin to be mortal.

Its the opposite of a broken or lack of conscience. Both are an imbalance and unhealthy spiritually.

Surly you wouldn't want to push something spiritually unhealthy right? Even if by accident.

Thats why you need to understand this. Its as common as degeneration.

I've been there and know many others who have too. It really is OK to stick to the CCC and trust that doing so will not cause you to fall further out of grace.
 
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BAFRIEND

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So far you have construed the OP as saying "twice by accident" to mean persistent and now habitual.

Please try to understand fully what it means to have an overly scrupulous conscience before rationalizing it away as normal so that you have an idea of what people are saying here.

An overly scrupulous conscience would be one that finds sin where there is none or finds a venial sin to be mortal.

Its the opposite of a broken or lack of conscience. Both are an imbalance and unhealthy spiritually.

Surly you wouldn't want to push something spiritually unhealthy right? Even if by accident.

Thats why you need to understand this. Its as common as degeneration.

I've been there and know many others who have too. It really is OK to stick to the CCC and trust that doing so will not cause you to fall further out of grace.

How do you know that his conscience which is telling him to go to confession over the matter is wrong ? What I stated from the start is that he should follow what is in his heart.

You are telling me that I am pushing something spiritually unhealthy because I offer him differnet, yet sound advice ?

Can you really state that he suffers from being overly scrupulous ? Of course not. And you base all this on "I've been there and know many others who have too," -personal subjective testamony.

Reread my post where I stated that if I did the same action I may or may not receive depending upon which I believed the behavior had its roots.
 
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