Dangit! Important question!

[BAFRIEND]

You just described a venial sin.

No one is saying we don't need to overcome our venial sins as they are bound to grow worse if we don't but we need grace to do that. The grace we receive from Jesus.

The problem with persistent problems like this can have their roots in personal flaws that lead to mortal sin. The greatest error one can make is to rely on one's own devices instead of God. If the OP's conscience is bothering him then he needs to follow it.

Th option is to go down for communion with the doubt.

 

[JoabAnias]

The problem with persistent problems like this can have their roots in personal flaws that lead to mortal sin. The greatest error one can make is to rely on one's own devices instead of God. If the OP's conscience is bothering him then he needs to follow it.

The option is to go down for communion with the doubt.

We all have personal flaws. According to St Francis De Sales - We are called to be the best us we can be.

Guilt is unnecessary unless its mortal. Choice and perseverance are always necessary.

I agree that any venial sin left untreated can degenerate into mortal sin.

Adversely a venial sin can be imagined to be mortal as well.

Is its the right course to avoid communion over what may be venial?

Do you see all three criteria met here?

 

[BAFRIEND]

We all have personal flaws. According to St Francis De Sales - We are called to be the best us we can be.

Guilt is unnecessary unless its mortal. Choice and perseverance are always necessary.

I agree that any venial sin left untreated can degenerate into mortal sin.

Adversely a venial sin can be imagined to be mortal as well.

Is its the right course to avoid communion over what may be venial?

Do you see all three criteria met here?

You talk about criteria and I am talking about conscience which the Church teaches is the voice of God. I absolutely disagree with you stating that guilt is unnecessary unless sin is mortal ?

The OP needs to reflect on this and follow his conscience.

 

[JoabAnias]

You talk about criteria and I am talking about conscience which the Church teaches is the voice of God. I absolutely disagree with you stating that guilt is unnecessary unless sin is mortal ?

The OP needs to reflect on this and follow his conscience.

We probably have a different understanding of guilt and its purposes. Its for repentance sure but there is a line where it becomes debilitating and counter productive that isn't healthy.

Did you read the definition of scrupulosity a few posts back?

Conscience can become overly scrupulous.

You haven't answered any of my questions:

Is its the right course to avoid communion over what may be venial?

Do you see all three criteria met here?

Why did you call something thats happened twice, persistent?

 

[ShannonMcCatholic]

Of course temptation being what it is...and despair being one of the sins against the Holy Spirit....our temptation will always tend towards believing we are separated from God. The thing about conscience is that in order to listen to it with totality--we need to have a perfectly formed conscience.

Our conscience must align with what the Church teaches--and She teaches that one must deliberately place oneself outside of God, in order to commit mortal sin. There aren't any accidental mortal sins. And so to believe oneself to be in mortal sin, through an accident, indicates something other than a properly formed conscience.

It's all about the holy middle ground--we must neither be too harsh, nor too slack upon oursleves. We must make worthy communions, be we must also not keep ourselves unduly from that total physical and spiritual union with our Lord and one another.

You slip up, without thinking, use the Lord's name in vain. YOu ask forgiveness, you accept that the Lord knows your heart and it's intentions, you aren't some legalistic Pharisee, and you entrust your soul to God. Then the next confession- you confess your slip up.

It's a relationship, BA...not a legal contract.

 

[BAFRIEND]

We probably have a different understanding of guilt and its purposes. Its for repentance sure but there is a line where it becomes debilitating and counter productive that isn't healthy.

Did you read the definition of scrupulosity a few posts back?

Conscience can become overly scrupulous.

You haven't answered any of my questions:

Is its the right course to avoid communion over what may be venial?

Do you see all three criteria met here?

Given this is persistent, the criteria may be there.

If the guilt is overly scrupulous, only God knows.

Yes, if you are not certain if the sin is venial or not then the right course would be to avoid communion.

I would like to add that I feel that the OP, placing focus on a persistent problem is in a far better position than one who would just blow the problem off with little after-thought.

 

[Maggie893]

Of course temptation being what it is...and despair being one of the sins against the Holy Spirit....our temptation will always tend towards believing we are separated from God. The thing about conscience is that in order to listen to it with totality--we need to have a perfectly formed conscience.

Our conscience must align with what the Church teaches--and She teaches that one must deliberately place oneself outside of God, in order to commit mortal sin. There aren't any accidental mortal sins. And so to believe oneself to be in mortal sin, through an accident, indicates something other than a properly formed conscience.

It's all about the holy middle ground--we must neither be too harsh, nor too slack upon oursleves. We must make worthy communions, be we must also not keep ourselves unduly from that total physical and spiritual union with our Lord and one another.

You slip up, without thinking, use the Lord's name in vain. YOu ask forgiveness, you accept that the Lord knows your heart and it's intentions, you aren't some legalistic Pharisee, and you entrust your soul to God. Then the next confession- you confess your slip up.

It's a relationship, BA...not a legal contract.

Amen!!

 

[JoabAnias]

Given this is persistent, the criteria may be there.

He said twice and accidental. Re-read the OP. I wouldn't call happening twice that persistent or accidental as meeting the criteria.

Absolutely everyone has advised the need for the Pastor here.

If the guilt is overly scrupulous, only God knows.

We can know whats venial and mortal as well. If we don't then it can't be mortal because to be mortal requires full knowledge and consent. The CCC defines it for us as already posted.

Only God and he knows if he really meant it or not and only God can absolve him. This doesn't mean confession is required before receiving if its venial and it is within the gifts of the Holy Spirit and the Church teaching to discern the difference. Read the CCC.

Yes, if you are not certain if the sin is venial or not then the right course would be to avoid communion.

Ok, if not certain I would agree. But if imagined mortal when only venial then one is missing the greatest gift on Earth for nothing and potentially doing themselves more harm.

I would like to add that I feel that the OP, placing focus on a persistent problem is in a far better position than one who would just blow the problem off with little after-thought.

I agree to that as well. To do so in an unbalanced way is not going to work either though.

How afraid of Gods judgement should we be?

His judgement on me has been my salvation.

 

[BAFRIEND]

It's a relationship, BA...not a legal contract.

Amen!!

May I point out that I am not the one quoting rules or criteria. I stated that the OP should follow his conscience which is the voice of God in what he feels is a persistent problem- you wrote that guilt is not neccessary.

Would you state the same if you unintentionally hurt someone's feelings through your own wrong action ? Of course not. But under your own theory the OP only need to look at the contract and be guilt free.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Regardless...

If one feels they need confession before receiving Communion then they should have confession.

I think the greater question is why this person cannot receive confession before Mass. It should be available at EVERY Catholic Church before Mass.

 

[JoabAnias]

May I point out that I am not the one quoting rules or criteria. I stated that the OP should follow his conscience which is the voice of God in what he feels is a persistent problem- you wrote that guilt is not neccessary.

Would you state the same if you unintentionally hurt someone's feelings through your own wrong action ? Of course not. But under your own theory the OP only need to look at the contract and be guilt free.

So if we all agree then whats the argument for?

 

[JoabAnias]

Regardless...

If one feels they need confession before receiving Communion then they should have confession.

I think the greater question is why this person cannot receive confession before Mass. It should be available at EVERY Catholic Church before Mass.

Wheres that Jack?

 

[ShannonMcCatholic]

May I point out that I am not the one quoting rules or criteria. I stated that the OP should follow his conscience which is the voice of God in what he feels is a persistent problem- you wrote that guilt is not neccessary.

Would you state the same if you unintentionally hurt someone's feelings through your own wrong action ? Of course not. But under your own theory the OP only need to look at the contract and be guilt free.

If you unintentionally hurt someone through your own wrong actions...it's going to matter if your wrong actions were deliberate or not, and if they were chosen freely. See.. the answer is the same. I dunno- wouldn't you apologise to that person for the hurt which you caused, and not intentionally stay away from them because of your shame?

Sins whether mortal or venial ought to always yield to contrition...but we're not talking about contrition--we're talking about staying away from the Divine Medicine which heals us, and forgives and remits our venial sins, and gives us the specific grace to grow in union with the Lord. The worst thing to do when battling with habitual sin is to not take your Medicine.

Do you actually believe that Jesus loves you and has created you for communion? Communion is our destiny, it isn't something which we ought to stay away from lightly or because we have some imperfections. Or because we feel unloveable and outside of God's love because we sin.

 

[BAFRIEND]

Don't just throw the term 'relationship' out there easily when it come to the Master, either.

 

[isabella1]

I cant remember the last time i let it slip... i think i confessed it.
I try to work hard on that myself. [i know its my irish temper]
And it would seem that the harder i try - it happens. So i am trying to make up substitute words... and make them part of me.

Dang blast it
Gravy boat
Goshdarnit
freakin' is my word of choice these days.
'Freakin no good rotten so and so...' comes out.

I like Mother Angelicas use of words "Oh applesauce". He He.

 

[ShannonMcCatholic]

Don't just throw the term 'relationship' out there easily when it come to the Master, either.

Why? Faith is relationship. Period. There is no other definition. God is Divine Persons, we are persons--we are in relationship. The Trinity is a relationship-exists in relationship, the point of our existence is to be ever more in-dwelling in the life of the Trinity....the Great Commands are about relationship with God and with others.

 

[isabella1]

If you unintentionally hurt someone through your own wrong actions...it's going to matter if your wrong actions were deliberate or not, and if they were chosen freely. See.. the answer is the same. I dunno- wouldn't you apologise to that person for the hurt which you caused, and not intentionally stay away from them because of your shame?

Sins whether mortal or venial ought to always yield to contrition...but we're not talking about contrition--we're talking about staying away from the Divine Medicine which heals us, and forgives and remits our venial sins, and gives us the specific grace to grow in union with the Lord. The worst thing to do when battling with habitual sin is to not take your Medicine.

Do you actually believe that Jesus loves you and has created you for communion? Communion is our destiny, it isn't something which we ought to stay away from lightly or because we have some imperfections. Or because we feel unloveable and outside of God's love because we sin.

When talking to my priest a couple weeks ago about my daughter needing to go to confession or not (because of her disability), he brought up a point and it really stuck with e because I never knew it. He said that receiving communion washes away our venial sins.

Did anyone else know this? Or am I the only one who didn't know it.

 

[BAFRIEND]

If you unintentionally hurt someone through your own wrong actions...it's going to matter if your wrong actions were deliberate or not, and if they were chosen freely. See.. the answer is the same. I dunno- wouldn't you apologise to that person for the hurt which you caused, and not intentionally stay away from them because of your shame?

Sins whether mortal or venial ought to always yield to contrition...but we're not talking about contrition--we're talking about staying away from the Divine Medicine which heals us, and forgives and remits our venial sins, and gives us the specific grace to grow in union with the Lord. The worst thing to do when battling with habitual sin is to not take your Medicine.

Do you actually believe that Jesus loves you and has created you for communion? Communion is our destiny, it isn't something which we ought to stay away from lightly or because we have some imperfections. Or because we feel unloveable and outside of God's love because we sin.

You are right, we should apologize for our sins and that is what confession is for. We are told to plan our salvation in fear and trembling- if the OP has this as a matter of conscience, then he needs to follow his conscience. Communion is not Holy medicine, either.

 

[ShannonMcCatholic]

When talking to my priest a couple weeks ago about my daughter needing to go to confession or not (because of her disability), he brought up a point and it really stuck with e because I never knew it. He said that receiving communion washes away our venial sins.

Did anyone else know this? Or am I the only one who didn't know it.

I know--isn't that awesome!!!!! If for some reason you still have venial sin after the Penitential Rite, your venial sins are *poof* gone with reception of Jesus into your body and soul.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Wheres that Jack?

Where is what???

A church that has confession before Mass?

Any and ALL Catholic Churches should have this. That is where.