Dangit! Important question!

[ShannonMcCatholic]

By papal decree the theology of St Thonas is in fact the theology of the Church. St. Thomas Aquinas held that to receive communion with the consciousness of sin was the greatest sin of them all.

So, how do you apply that to the OP and what he stated was in his heart over this matter ?

Peace.

Consciousness of MORTAL sin..BA. Holy Communion itself remits venial sin. The Church has never taught that venial sin should keep us from Holy Communion.

Accidentally using the Lord's Name in vain--isn't mortal sin. You can't accidentally commit mortal sin--you have to fully and deliberately consent.

 

[BAFRIEND]

Consciousness of MORTAL sin..BA. Holy Communion itself remits venial sin. The Church has never taught that venial sin should keep us from Holy Communion.

Accidentally using the Lord's Name in vain--isn't mortal sin. You can't accidentally commit mortal sin--you have to fully and deliberately consent.

And who says the consent was not there ? Who says the deliberatness was not there ?

And that is why we should rely on our conscious to help guide us to do the right thing.

 

[Woodsy]

I recommend the book Getting Free, How to overcome persistent Personal Problems, by Bert Ghezzi (yes a Catholic).

This little book discusses problems and sources of sins and how to wrk on them with a lot of common sense. he reminds us that the primary cure is to rely on God and not our own devices.

Hope you don't take this the wrong way- I am not stating you are bad or out of control etc etc- everyone could benefit from this book.

No offense taken, this thread has been nothing but helpful. I have Bert Ghezzi's "The Sign of the Cross" and will look at the book you recommend also. Thanks!

 

[ShannonMcCatholic]

And who says the consent was not there ? Who says the deliberatness was not there ?

And that is why we should rely on our conscious to help guide us to do the right thing.

No one except the OP can make that call. He wrote "It just slipped out"...as he was doing something which was stressful and frustrating--which seems to indicate a lack of deliberateness. Only he can know if there was a struggle in the moment where he thought"I want to say x, but I know it is wrong....but I will say it anyway". If there was no such struggle--it is NOT a mortal sin. Period. Will it still be good to confess--of course...but is confession necessary before Holy Communion--no.

Again it is important to note that one's conscience and understanding of moral quality of actions must be aligned with and informed by the Church. Not by our concupiscent feelings of being not good enough.

 

[ShannonMcCatholic]

And--I just wanted to add--- isn't it an awesome thing, when confessing regularly--to have the great gift of having an increased awareness of our sins the moment the happen!? That helps us so, so much in the area of fighting against habitual, deeply ingrained sins and defects...just being aware- the moment after they happen. A few weeks ago, the OP might not have even noticed he'd said anything....

...I believe that wholeness is the path to holiness...and as we address and confront and work on our personal defects...we grow in wholeness..and hence imporve our ability to enter into healthier, deeper relationship with other and with God.

 

[WarriorAngel]

I think Jesus said it a sin to avoid the Eucharist because we think we are such sinners...? [scrupulosity?]
Or did i mess that up?

I dont get to read alot anymore - and i live off memory mostly.
But as soon as i slip - i rush to confession.
Then i dont have to battle inside myself 'what if...' or 'should i or shouldnt i?' at Mass.

 

[WarriorAngel]

AND I hope this doesnt lead me to commit a mortal sin.
Seems to happen everytime i feel brave or confident in what i doing.

Pride comes before the fall - and all that....

 

[ShannonMcCatholic]

I just thought of one other thing to add..the Op wrote that he is working on drawing closer to the Lord through the sacraments. Where will the temptation lie? It will lie in keeping oneself from drawing closer to the Lord...and that is precisely when we must rely on obedience to what the Church teaches in regards to guiding us through keeping ourselves from Communion. The very nature of satan is that he exploits our weakened nature, and twists virtuous inclination to our detriment. All of the capital sins involve something virtuous, twisted to work toward our demise. We have to be vigilant against that which prowls the earth seeking the ruin of our souls...and that is where temperance, prudence, and obedience become truly paramount.

 

[BAFRIEND]

No one except the OP can make that call. He wrote "It just slipped out"...as he was doing something which was stressful and frustrating--which seems to indicate a lack of deliberateness. Only he can know if there was a struggle in the moment where he thought"I want to say x, but I know it is wrong....but I will say it anyway". If there was no such struggle--it is NOT a mortal sin. Period. Will it still be good to confess--of course...but is confession necessary before Holy Communion--no.

Again it is important to note that one's conscience and understanding of moral quality of actions must be aligned with and informed by the Church. Not by our concupiscent feelings of being not good enough.

If I did the same thing the OP did, I may or not exclude myself from receiving- it could be that a simple prayer at the time may do the trick and I may not think much more about it- but if I believed that the action stemmed from something else- like deliberate rebellion or something else perpetual or what St Aquinas referred to as a remnant, then that would be an entirely different matter. What the OP stated was that this hit his conscience and I think he should listen.

 

[D'Ann]

If I did the same thing the OP did, I may or not exclude myself from receiving- it could be that a simple prayer at the time may do the trick and I may not think much more about it- but if I believed that the action stemmed from something else- like deliberate rebellion or something else perpetual or what St Aquinas referred to as a remnant, then that would be an entirely different matter. What the OP stated was that this hit his conscience and I think he should listen.

Dom... pray this one through with the advice that we all have shared.

I've learned a lot from this thread. Thank you all.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

If you're not sure you committed a mortal sin or not, you did not, for to do so, you have to have committed it with full knowledge. Your uncertainty, is proof of your lack of full knowledge.

Also, at such a time, if you feel Christ is calling you to receive, do so, and get to confession after, for it is only a venial sin.

Jim

 

[BAFRIEND]

If you're not sure you committed a mortal sin or not, you did not, for to do so, you have to have committed it with full knowledge. Your uncertainty, is proof of your lack of full knowledge.

Also, at such a time, if you feel Christ is calling you to receive, do so, and get to confession after, for it is only a venial sin.

Jim

That is not what St Aquinas said. I also believe that St Augustine said something different also ?

 

[ShannonMcCatholic]

That is not what St Aquinas said. I also believe that St Augustine said something different also ?

Prove it...quote the portion of the text to which you are referring. The Catechism is pretty clear about the nature of mortal sin and requiring in addition to grave matter- full consent and full knowledge.

 

[isabella1]

If I did the same thing the OP did, I may or not exclude myself from receiving- it could be that a simple prayer at the time may do the trick and I may not think much more about it- but if I believed that the action stemmed from something else- like deliberate rebellion or something else perpetual or what St Aquinas referred to as a remnant, then that would be an entirely different matter. What the OP stated was that this hit his conscience and I think he should listen.

Sometimes I realize sin as it is emerging and can stop it before it even starts. Then theres the ones that I say immediately after it happens I cant believe I just did that.

My spiritual director gave me a good tip one time while I was in confession, he said when these venial sins come up and the Holy Spirit guides me to recognize it immediately just say "Jesus Son of God, have mercy on me and forgive me, a sinner. In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen." And let that be that. I think he saw I was being way to harsh on myself. That has really helped me through the years. hope it helps someone else too. Peace.

 

[Michie]

You ought to get you one of these: http://www.emmanuelbooks.com/product_detail.cfm?ID=758

The number 2 is the best for adults- it's only 5 bucks. I think it's possibly the very best investment one might make in one's entire life.

I think I might have that. Picked it up somewhere. I need to do some digging around.

Thanks Shannon.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

That is not what St Aquinas said. I also believe that St Augustine said something different also ?

Aquinas gave three conditions to use as a guide, they are not infallible, to determine if a mortal sin was committed or not.

The sin must be grave

The sin must be committed with full knowledge. If your questioning whether its mortal or not, you obviously don't have full knowledge.

It must be committed with full consent, that is, freely, not impulsively, as in the case of the OP.

Jim

 

[BAFRIEND]

Aquinas gave three conditions to use as a guide, they are not infallible, to determine if a mortal sin was committed or not.

The sin must be grave

The sin must be committed with full knowledge. If your questioning whether its mortal or not, you obviously don't have full knowledge.

It must be committed with full consent, that is, freely, not impulsively, as in the case of the OP.

Jim

Are you stating the OP does not know if blasphemy is mortal or not ? He said it slipped out and he does not know why- I state he should make it a matter of conscience and he says his conscience tell him not to receive.

You say that he should receive anyway as it is only venial sin, are you sure about that ? If my conscience tells me not to receive and I do it anyway, that is only venial ? I don't think it is venial so much as subjective.

 

[BAFRIEND]

Prove it...quote the portion of the text to which you are referring. The Catechism is pretty clear about the nature of mortal sin and requiring in addition to grave matter- full consent and full knowledge.

It is in Summa Theologica and you can find it yourself online.

As for the catechism:

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Also, in order to receive Holy Communion, the state of grace obtained through a perfect act of contrition remains insufficient because, as St. Thomas observes:[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]...a person cannot know with certainty if he is indeed and truly contrite.[/FONT]

​

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]What is required, therefore, is the state of grace obtained through sacramental confession by which are forgiven all of their sins, even the sins of those having but an imperfect contrition; that is, one inspired not by the love of God, but only by the fear of eternal as well as temporal punishment, or simply owing to the wretchedness of sin.- 1983.[/FONT]

.​

 

[ShannonMcCatholic]

What you quoted there is intentionally misleading, because you are presupposing that accidentally using the Lord's name in vain is a mortal sin--which it is not. Just because something is grave matter- doe not mean that it is a mortal sin. That quoted portion refers to someone in a state of mortal sin. Do you just not believe that? Do you just not believe that some sins are grave matter but not mortal?

If someone hasn't sinned with deliberate intention and consent--then the Penitential Rite at Mass forgives sin, as well as the reception of the Eucharist Itself.

That's just like you- make claims about what someone teaches and instructs, but then when challenged, you tell the other person to go find it themselves. Either you know that Aquinas and/or Augustine said something contrary, and can actually provide a quote to illustrate such a fact, or you don't really know and ought not add it as something trying to get others to agree with your (flawed) point of view.

 

[Gwendolyn]

Re-train yourself, then.

Use simple psychology to replace the blasphemy words with other ones.

I'm trying to do that with swearing. I don't like swearing but when I get hurt or something bad happens the words just come. So I'm trying to replace the words with amusing ones - "fiddlesticks", "oh, bother", "great balls of fire", "good grief", etc.

Just re-train yourself to say those words unstead of taking God's name in vain. I imagine that it is the same principle.